Talk:Heaven 17

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What reached 45?[edit]

The article used to say that "At the height of the fighting (He-La-Hu)" got to 45 in the UK singles chart, then went on to mention "(We don't need this) Fascist Groove Thing" but without specifying a chart position it reached.

The two linked sites (including the H17 official site) have it the other way round - no. 45 is specified for FGT but no chart position is given for ATHOTF. I have moved it round to match what's given on those sites - please feel free to alter/comment if you have other information. 138.37.199.199 11:56, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Height of the Fighting" missed the charts, according to everything I've ever read.

Tom Prankerd 20:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The reason that the "Height of the Fighting" doesn't appear anywhere in the 'Charts', is due to the fact that it was never actually issued as a 7" single. Although it was schedualed for release and given a general release cat#, it remained unissued and without a 'Picture Sleeve' being designed for it. This I would say was due to the fact that the UK was at war with Argentina at the time, brought on as a result of the conflict in the Falklands. Plastic Demons 18:12, 18 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was issued as a 12" single - which is sufficient sometimes to chart (e.g., New Order's Blue Monday), but I agree ATHOTF never charted QuiteUnusual 21:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

H17 - New Romantic?[edit]

The same anon individual who seems to be going around labelling all early 1980s British Synth bands as New Romantic has struck here. H17 were certainly never New Romantics by any definition. The band was the performance arm of British Electric Foundation, a socialist electronic music collective founded by Ian Craig Marsh and Martyn Ware after they left The Human League. One of the reasons they left THL is because Philip Oakey wanted to be more Pop and commercial. BEF were anti-establishment and against the mass commercial pop of the period (and the new Human League in particular). Some of H17s lyrics were banned by the BBC because of their political content. Nothing whatsoever to do with the New Romantic movement, style wise Martyn Ware had a beard, how is that new romatic? In the spirit of consensus if someone wants to describe this band as new romantic, they can go on the H17 official website www.heaven17.com and ask Martyn Ware himself if he was a new romantic, (expect a sarcastic answer) but if he say he was then add a link in the EL section. Until then keep it off this article. andi064 T . C 12:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just be aware that they are being referred to as "New Romantics" again, this time on the New Romanticism article. Discussed here Talk:New_Romanticism#Contested_bands, can someone else remove it I can't again as I will fall foul of WP:3RR, it’s just embarrassing for Martyn, Glenn and ICM too be considered the same as Boy George. Some people will just not be told the truth. Perhaps someone can get a real killer quote from Martyn slagging of the whole New Romantic media thing and put an end to this continual battle with ignoramuses. Laestrygonian3 (talk) 17:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IP Edit War[edit]

To put an end to the IP edit war on this article

1. The reference provided by is sufficient justification for the editors assertion that Ian Craig Marsh has left the band, Martyn Ware doesn’t just say that he is at university he says "he has gone completely off radar. He’s still our brother and we miss him". Combined with the facts that he hasn’t appeared live with them for 3 years and failed to participate in their last album, tour or TV appearances.

2. Billie Godfrey's article states that she is an associate member of Heaven 17 as do the ELs on her page. This is an important distinction and she should be shown as an associate on the article not a full member. Hence I’ve removed her from the info box and put her in normal type and parenthesis on the H17 template. This is in keeping with other long established bands that take on new people on a permanent basis who dont have band name/royalty rights.

3. {Missing Citations} template changed to {Additional Citations} template

This article will now be locked to prevent further tit for tat revisions. andi064 T . C 15:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Recent edits (Oct/Nov 2015)[edit]

Wow, well done! Lots of improvements here recently. Why the sudden upswing in interest? Whyever, it's impressive: thanks to all. DBaK (talk) 11:19, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Formation[edit]

The article suggests that Ware and Marsh formed Heaven 17 at the same time as B.E.F. Is this correct? Wasn't Heaven 17 formed after the first B.E.F-release as a musical project for the production company, when the duo recruited Gregory. / Edo (talk) 08:46, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Band name[edit]

Does anyone know whether the band name was a reference to the Dutch phrase Heeren Zeventien (Heeren XVII. "17 Gentlemen"), originally referring to the governing body of the Dutch East India Company and used in more recent times to refer to other powerful groupings in "establishment" Dutch politics? I'd be really interested if there is something citable about that. - Jmabel | Talk 18:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The name comes from a scene in A Clockwork Orange. Alex visits a record shop and one of the fictitious band names mentioned in the scene is "The Heaven 17". 208.127.88.186 (talk) 17:15, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Synth-pop, not new wave.[edit]

There’s a difference, people. Big difference. In England the defining new wave artists were groups like Buzzcocks and The Jam, who Wikipedia describes as punk rock in the ledes for their respective pages. And poppier or artsier punk is basically what new wave meant in Britain. It had nothing to do with synths or synth bands of the 80s. It seems Americans like calling 80s pop bands ‘new wave’ for some reason, but as they are an English artist this should not be the lead off for their page. They were synthpop (aka electropop or technopop), just like The Human League that preceded them, Blancmange, Visage, Soft Cell, Yazoo, and countless others. Calling synth-pop a genre of new wave music like Wikipedia does is also inaccurate, but the American bias seems too strong to overcome. On this page, though, something can be done, if you’ll only move out the way @Doctorhawkes. As I already pointed out, AllMusic calls them techno-pop, which Wikipedia and everywhere else recognises as a synonym of synth-pop, so sourcing is not an issue.

P.S. @Ceoil if you could back me up as a third opinion here, I’d appreciate it ;) Janglyguitars (talk) 05:11, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Synth-pop. New Wave is a different, NYC thing, totally separate (although Buzzcocks and The Jam were punk and post-punk respectively). Ideally would describe Heaven 17 as Pure pop...along with ABC, XTC, early Talk Talk & A-Ha. Ceoil (talk) 05:15, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I would have said Buzzcocks and The Jam both were part of ‘the New Wave’, but point taken. Janglyguitars (talk) 05:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lets agree to disagree, but Buzzcocks are first generation punk[1], although I could see the Jam as New Wave. Ceoil (talk) 05:46, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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