Talk:List of countries with multiple capitals

Bhutan

There's any reference setting Punakha like Bhutan's de facto capital. In Thimphu page there are descriptions of government settings in this city, but nothing in Punakha page...Luís Gracindo 7:08, 04 Jun 2006 (UTC)

Unless someone can come up with a reliable source(s) that states Punakha currently serves as Bhutan's capital is some respect, I intend to delete the Bhutan entry, at least as a nation that *currently* has more than one capital. --Mike Beidler 16:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Chile

Chile has only one Capital, I read the article in english of what a Capital is, and I think that it is wrong to designate Chile as having two capitals, just because the Congress is in another city. So far I understand, the location of the Congress does not determine the location of a Capital. Chile should be removed from this list, becasue it distorts reality, and is not accurate according to chilean legislation.--3BRBS (talk) 01:09, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

No one has replied my comment in two years. I think this article is probably an original investigation an presents a point of view that is no neutral. I'm adding the sign :) 3BRBS (talk) 19:24, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Now that Chile has been removed from the list it is still highlighted in the map! Aminabzz (talk) 03:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes the only capital of chile is Santiago. The only country in South America is Bolivia -La Paz and Sucre. 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Kazakhstan

Shouldn't Kazakhstan be on the list of countries that have shifted their capitals? From the Kazakhstan page: "In 1997 the capital of Kazakhstan moved from the southern city of Almaty to Akmolinsk (Akmola), later renamed to Astana, a city closer to the geographic center of the country."

Israel

I forgot to write a summary for my last change, which was to add a statement about Jerusalem/Tel Aviv...I still haven't figured out how to change summaries if you forget to write them. My apologies.

I wasn't sure exactly how to integrate that information into the page. I basically echoed what had been done with the statement about Japan. I think the situation in Israel is probably unique, in that the country itself designates one capital, but most of the rest of the world recognizes a different one. If we want a list of "temporary wartime capitals", we could also add Tel Aviv to that, but I'm not sure how often that has happened.

Someday I will learn to sign posts on these pages. The above was mine. Creidieki 20:52, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I made this edit because it is incorrect to say that the United Nations recognizes Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel. It is true that the United Nations does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital. I am not aware of any country whose official position is "Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel". That's just where the embassies are. In fact, Israel should not even be mentioned in an article on countries with multiple capitals; instead, Israel is perhaps a country with zero capitals. (Switzerland might also fit into that category; Wikipedia's article on Bern describes it as merely a "de facto capital" [1]). See for example UNTERM which carefully leaves blank the field for "capital city". Mathew5000 (talk) 09:07, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Japan

Japan has had other capitals as well ... I believe Nara (Heijo-kyo) is generally considered to be Japan's first permanent capital. Depending on how you define capital Japan has had many others as well: Fujiwara-kyo, Asuka, etc. CES 06:38, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The article is about countries that have had multiple capitals at the same time. So if a country has had a capital from year x to y and then another one from y to z, that can't be a country with multiple capitals. Aminabzz (talk) 10:26, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

they literally have Tokyo and Kyoto 166.205.222.16 (talk) 15:33, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Sri Lanka

Should you want to visit the Sri Lankan Parliament, you will find it in the Columbo metropolitan area.

incorrect, it changed to Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte in 1982. While colombo is de facto commercial capital it has no constitutional roll as a captital an is only commercial capital is the same way that New York is commercial capital of the US. And i don't see the US listed as a country with more than one capital. I am going to remove sri lanka from the page unless anyone has any objections. ----Greatestrowerever^{Talk Page} 13:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Not that I disagree with removing Sri Lanka (I don't), but how on Earth is Kotte not in the Colombo Metropolitan Region? Colombo says that the region is defined as the districts of Colombo, Gampaha and Kalutara. —JAO • T • C 22:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, it is physically in the area known generally, to the outside world, as "Colombo". But to locals, it is not considered to be in Colombo, but in Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte, or Kotte for short. This distinction applies to other parts of what would generally be considered to be part of Colombo, such as Wattala. If you go there, you'll find it on the main road between the airport and the CBD, and only 8 miles from the CBD, and for most practical purposes it is indistinguishable from the Colombo area. But the locals never refer to it as "Colombo", always as "Wattala". Many cities are divided into different administrative areas run by different local authorities. Take Sydney, for example. The City of Sydney runs only the inner area including the CBD, and other cities such as the City of Randwick, the City of Parramatta and various others, run other parts of the Sydney greater metropolitan area. A person from Parramatta would be quite correct in saying they're from "Sydney" (used in its broad, general sense), and if the NSW Parliament were located in Parramatta (rather than in the CBD of Sydney), nobody would object to saying that "The NSW Parliament is situated in the capital, Sydney". But Sri Lankans think about these things in their own way, and we have to respect that. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. We should certainly not call Kotte "part of Colombo" without further specification, if locals wouldn't do that. I just reacted to the statement that it was incorrect to call Kotte part of the "Columbo [sic] metropolitan area". Assuming the term is used for the Colombo Metropolitan Region as defined in the Colombo article, that's not incorrect by any stretch of the imagination. —JAO • T • C 00:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

United States

Baltimore and Annapolis, Maryland were never capitals of the United States. They were two out of eight different cities where the Second Continental Congress met between 1775 anf 1789. New York City was the first official capital of the United States of America, as designated by Congess. Followed by Philidelphia, PA under the Residence Act of 1790, and Washington, DC upon its completion in 1800. If Balitmore and Annapolis are to be concidered former capitals of the United States, then Lancaster, PA; York, PA; Princeton, NJ; and Trenton, NJ must be included with the 3 times Philidelphia was a site of a meeting of the Continental Congress, as well as New York. NamcoFL 05:17, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I refered to the World Book Encyclopaedia (2003) to compile this table. It was mentioned in it that the above served as a temporary capital. I think that the towns of Annapolis, Baltimore and the additional ones you mentioned should be added to the table as it did serve as the administrative capital of USA. [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 20:02, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

"The Union States of America" never existed. The United States of America" was "the Union." Wetman 21:33, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Fixed. --Aponar Kestrel 03:14, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)

United Kingdom

But Winchester was never the capital of the UK. It was the capital of England, though. Marnanel 15:12, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think Winchester was the capital of Wessex, not England. William Avery 19:35, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A quick search confirms my memory that the people of Oxford often describe their city as having been the "Royalist capital" (of England) during the English Civil War. http://www.google.com/search?q=oxford+royalist+capital William Avery 19:19, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I believe Winchester was briefly capital of England after the end of the Heptarchy, but I could be wrong. In any case, the table says (well, said) that it had been the capital of the UK, which is clearly wrong. Marnanel 03:02, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I see your point: Alfred called himself King of England, and his capital was Winchester. William Avery 21:43, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Netherlands

The Hague is not the or a capital of the Netherlands. It is the capital of the 'Zuid-Holland' county. The fact that government is centered there doesn't change that. If it does, then I consider this list rather subjective.

Note that capital states: It may consist of or be separate from the actual seat of government.

Tinus 15:45, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Den Haag is only the seat of goverment, the capital is Amsterdam as it always has been.

- James

Amsterdam is indeed the only capital of the Netherlands. I have removed the Netherlands from the list. Previous debates about capital status of the Hague on other pages have resulted in the outcome that : The idea that the seat of government is the capital is not sufficiently supported (some US dictionaries include seat of government in their definition of capital, UK dictionaries don't): I.e. the claim that seat of government=capital lacks unambiguous support, but even if such definition would be agreed upon, extending that to the Dutch situation would still be synthesis. No single reliable names the Hague capital of the Netherlands, the contrary is true as Amsterdam is (uniquely) named capital in the Dutch constitution.

Therefore it is obvious the Netherlands does not belong on this list; at least not without a reliable source claiming that it does have indeed 2 capitals. Arnoutf (talk) 09:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

MauriManya keeps on adding that the Hague is a capital of the Netherlands. The source he provides goes 404 and the site he provides the 'source' from has this on it, which clearly says the following; "In most countries, the capital city is the seat of the national government. That is not the case in the Netherlands, however. Although Amsterdam is the Dutch capital, the government and States General (the Dutch parliament) are based in The Hague. The current head of state, Queen Beatrix, also lives in The Hague. Amsterdam is the Netherlands’ largest city and its economic and cultural hub. It is also the scene of royal inaugurations and marriages. To discover why the government of the Netherlands does not have its seat in the capital, we must make an excursion into the country’s history." This source is the ministry of foreign affairs of the Netherlands, it can obviously be trusted on this matter. This literally says "Amsterdam is the capital", "The government is in the Hague", "The government is not in the capitol" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leprecon (talk • contribs) 13:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Leprecon the source says it clearly: Amsterdam is the constitutional capital, The Hague is the seat of the government. As is the case of Malaysia. Why dou you keep insisting on the Netherlands? MauriManya (talk) 17:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

The wikipedia page on capital cities says "A capital city (or just, capital) is the area of a country, province, region, or state considered to enjoy primary status; although there are exceptions, a capital is typically a city that physically encompasses the offices and meeting places of the seat of government and is usually fixed by law or by the constitution." This is obviously one of those exceptions. There is no question on whether or not the government is in the Hague, this however doesn't mean that it is a capital. A city being the seat of the government doesn't make it a capital. Nobody considers the Hague the capital of the Netherlands and the source you cite specifically says that the Hague is not a capital city. I am not the only one who keeps insisting this, so don't pretend this is all my doing. If you want to create a list of countries whose government is not in their capital than be my guest, but the Netherlands only has one capital, both officially and unofficially. Perhaps it would be better to rename this article or rephrase its introduction if you insist on the Netherlands staying on this list. Leprecon (talk) 08:28, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

In this case it would have to rename the article, as there are other cases (not just the Netherlands) in which the seat of government is not in the capital. MauriManya (talk) 14:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Such cases are better suited for a separate list or colour on the attached map, therefore I have removed the Netherlands to prevent any unclarities concerning this list. Aesarlex 12:56, 8 January 2018

The fact that government is centered there doesn't change that. On the contrary: The basic definition of a capital city is that its a place from which an entity is ruled or governed. The Netherlands doesn't own the word "capital" and can't redefine it on whim. Suppose I see you with your pet and you say "This is my poodle, Cindy. She's a cat." I can see she's a poodle. Poodles are dogs, and that doesn't change just because she's yours. So Cindy is a dog, no matter how much you insist she isn't and even if you have a document that says she isn't. Largoplazo (talk) 12:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

As much as the Dutch cannot change the definition of the English word capital neither can any foreign entity determine that The Hague is somehow our capital which it is not. To use an analogy: Just because Karen has hooves does not make her a zebra. Karen is a horse. Even if foreign entities paint her black and white, a horse is a horse. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 15:36, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

What you're overlooking is that the government of the Netherlands shoiuldn't expect to be taken seriously when they declare that a city that is their capital isn't one. Your analogy is backwards. The Netherlands is putting hooves on The Hague by (for God knows what reason) insisting that that city, which meets the definition of "capital", isn't one. A fitting analogy is the one I gave you earlier, which I'll make more briefly here: It's as though the Netherlands had declared that poodles residing in the Netherlands are cats, not dogs, and then getting upset when outsiders call them "dogs" anyway. Largoplazo (talk) 22:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

So in Germanic languages there is no distinction within the colour blue whereas Slavic languages for instance do make a distinction between light blue and dark blue. Similarly the Netherlands and Bolivia and possibly others places do make a distinction between capital and seat of government. That you do not make that distinction does not mean that it does not exist. And that is the root of the problem. The core issue. But as said before I see this is not going anywhere, so the misinformation will remain. Do note that I call it misinformation (unintentional/uninformed incorrect information) as opposed to disinformation (intentional incorrect information). As I do believe y'all aren't intentionally ignorant. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 09:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Before we continue with this - is there actually any non-disputed reliable source that confirms the bold statement "The basic definition of a capital city is that its a place from which an entity is ruled or governed." If not, I think the analogy to animals (which are non-disputed) if flawed and leading nowhere. (please also note the Wikipedia article capital city uses a less far fetching definition that the capital is usually (i.e. not always) the seat of government, making the need for an extremely strong source to back up the definition above rather essential). Arnoutf (talk) 21:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Tanzania

According the the main article on Tanzania there is a case for including that country here. William Avery 19:32, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Lithuania

I've seen sources that the capital was Kovno from 1918 or 1919 to 1940 (subsequently and currently Vilnius) - the Wikipedia entry for Kovno has that it was temporarily a capital, but isn't clear about the dates.

Lithuanians always call it Kaunas, Poles Kowno, Kovno is Russian. The story is very complicated. First, a source showing it was what is called the Provisional Capital of the Republic of Lithuania: Harrison's Lithuania, available on archive.org. Here's what happened, from memory: The Lithuanian Republic was proclaimed in Vilnius/Wilno in 1919 with Vilnius as its capital. The Republic of Poland contested the claim, and during fighting with Russian Bolsheviks Poland de facto administered the entire region around Wilno and a large chunk of White Russia, aka Belarus. This can be seen on numberous maps on the internet from the period. Poland called rump Lithuania Central Lithuania or somesuch, see Czeslaw Milosz for more on that. Rump Lithuania was forced to set up termporary capital in Kaunas for the duration of its period of independence while there were multiple disputes in the League of Nations about the status of Wilno/Vilnius and plebicites/referenda planned. When the Mutual Assistance Pacts between the Soviet Union and the Baltic states led to actual Red Army troops based in the Baltic states, and a Lithuanian People's Government petitioned Moscow for inclusion as a constituent republic in the USSR, a Berlin-based Lithuanian opposition group formed a government in exile. The organization in Berlin was the Lithuanian Activists Front. Back in the Lithuanian SSR Stalin, now in control of the eastern marches under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, gave Vilnius back to the Lithuanian SSR. The LAF had Nazi support and planned to use the German invasion to declare themselves the de facto government in Lithuania, which they did, in Kaunas. The LAF Provisional Government pledged allegiance to Adolf Hitler and sought to enter WWII on the Axis side. The Germans appreciated their help in organizing Lithuanians to kill Jews, but did not need or want a competing nationalist base of power inside their occupied territory in the east. So the capital of Lithuania in the modern period was briefly the declarative capital Vilnius ca. 1919, followed by the de facto provisional capital of Kaunas till 1940. Depending on whom you ask, Lithuania either disappeared in 1940 and remained disappeared until 1990, or briefly came back to life in summer of 1941, under the provisional government at the provisional capital Kaunas, from late June to mid-August. The provisional government maintained that Vilnius was Lithuanian and the Lithuanian capital, but didn't have time to move many boots there, only some pro-Nazi state security staff. Historically, the capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was in Trakai (Troky in Polish) before it moved to Vilnius. Kernave is considered an even older capital than Trakai but not on much firm basis if you ask me. So a good bit of it depends on how you interpret history: for 50 years the only sovereign Lithuanian territory was a few small offices in Rome and Washington, D. C. Hypatea (talk) 14:33, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Villanus is the only capital of Lithuania 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Ireland

Ireland is regarded as a nation whereas Northern Ireland is certainly not regarded as a nation. Ireland should be re-included on the list of nations with two capitals.

Regarded by whom? (The whole island is not, for example, regarded as one state by the constitution of the Republic of Ireland; see Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution of Ireland.) Marnanel 01:11, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Tuvalu?

Shouldn't Tuvalu be on this page, too? Its article seems to say that Vaiaku, Fongafale and Funafuti are its capitals. Adam78 03:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Vaikaku is a village on the islet of Fongafale, which is part of the atoll of Funafuti. There's only one capital -- it's just a matter of scale. ;) —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 17:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Micronesia has had multiple capitals, if only administrative. Hypatea (talk) 14:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Philippines?

Manila is the only legal capital. Perhaps it can be reworded. --Howard the Duck 14:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Montenegro

I also cannot find any documented evidence that Cetinje serves currently as Montengro's capital in any capacity. In lieu of evidence, I am deleting reference to it. --Mike Beidler 17:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you mean Montenegro, not Macedonia. -- (Shocktm | Talk | contribs.) 21:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh. You're right. Boy, am I tired today. Fixed.  ;-) --Mike Beidler 23:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I think Cetinje warrants an inclusion, as a city specifically mentioned in the constitution of the country. The constitution uses the term glavni grad (which is the usual Serbian word for capital) for Podgorica and prestonica (which I am having a hard time translating, but I think it's meant to mean "seat of the head of state") for Cetinje. -- Jao 16:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Quoting Constitution of Montenegro: "Article 7, THE CAPITAL CITY AND ADMINISTRATIVE CENTRE. The administrative centre of Montenegro shall be Podgorica. The capital city of Montenegro shall be Cetinje." --Serguei Trouchelle 16:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have seen that translation before, but that doesn't mean it's not a strange translation. Glavni grad (literally "main city") is the word which Serbs use when English-speakers say capital (see http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Француска or any other country article in the Serbian Wikipedia, for example). It seems very out of place to translate it into "administrative centre" in this, and only this, situation. -- Jao 19:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

South Africa

Is there any documentation from official (i.e., South African government) sources that South Africa has three capitals, as opposed to one "official" capital (i.e., Pretoria) and two other cities that serve as hosts to one of the three branches of government (i.e., Cape Town and Bloemfontein)? --Mike Beidler 19:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The SA constitution doesn't refer to a national capital city. The closest would be that it refers to parliament meeting in Cape Town. Pretoria, Cape Town and Bloemfontein are all de facto capitals. As I posted in the article, the status of Bloemfontein as a judicial capital is historic. Since the formation of the constitutional court, Bloem may not be the de facto judicial capital. Crazydude22 (talk) 10:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Russia

Russia too can be added in the list? The constitutional court is transferred to Saint Petersburg. Yuriy75 (talk) 15:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

New Discussion

A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries/Lists of countries which could affect the inclusion criteria and title of this and other lists of countries. Editors are invited to participate. Pfainuk talk 12:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Castile and Leon and early Spain

had multiple capitals. Shouldn't these be added? See the footnote 1 in the infobox of es:Corona de Castilla for a start.--189.62.166.199 (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Libya

Since some countries have recognized the rebel government, it might be added that Libya, to a certain extent, has 2 capitals. Tripoli is the "official" capital, while Benghazi is the "rebel" capital. 99.59.26.174 (talk) 05:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

fundamental flaw underlying this list

The article opens with the statement: "Some countries have multiple capitals; often one city is the seat of government while the other is the legal capital." This sentence is utter nonsense. Consider the sentence if you replace "capital" with apple and "seat of government" with orange the line then would read "Some situations hold multiple aples; often one of these is an orange while the other is a legally acknowledged apple".

For example in my home country, we as inhabitants, and our constitution are clear and unambiguous: There is only one capital: Amsterdam. Yet the Netherlands is in this list as its seat of government is in the Hague. No one with any knowledge of the Dutch situation (at least no one sane) would list the Hague as capital, there is no source naming the Netherlands a multiple capital city. So most of this list seems synthesis (i.e. violation of WPOR). Arnoutf (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

After some more reading of the different definitions: In the case of the Netherlands (1 city with all institutions of a capital - The Hague / 1 city always referred to as capital and mentioned as such in the constitution, and being the more important of the Dutch cities - Amsterdam).

Either we accept the dictionary definition, which would favour The Hague as sole capital, as no reference in those definitions is made about the possibility that a law (after all a human idea) can overrule the defintion

Or we follow Dutch constitution (and colloquial use) and label Amsterdam capital, as a dictionary definition is only a human idea.

In either case the Netherlands has only one single capital; albeit a different one. Calling both of them capital is never done, and that would be synthesis in my view. Arnoutf (talk) 18:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Switzerland

Switzerland has also another Judicial capital, Lausanne. Actually depending on the case it can also be Bellinzona, Luzern or St. Gallen. I wonder whether it makes any sense to list Judicial capitals. Pkoppenb (talk) 17:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia has two capitals: Riyadh (political capital) and Mecca (religious capital) [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.183.132 (talk) 11:50, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Germany

Until Berlin became the capital, Bonn was the capital of Germany, not West Berlin, as is currently stated in the article. West Berlin was not even part of West Germany, although it was perceived as such. Bonn was not just the administrative seat of the government; it was the capital of West Germany. 80.71.142.166 (talk) 21:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

South Korea

Seoul and Sejong City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_City). Sejong is a new "de facto administrative capital of South Korea" -Ciscorucinski (talk) 10:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Will await further consensus before making edits. Additionally it still says Seoul on the South Korea page, so until that takes into effect I don't think we should add it here. DrJosh999 (talk) 01:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Bolivia

Bolivia has only one capital, Sucre. The general population, the media, research centers, the chancellery, and the office of the presidency speak and write that the capital is Sucre. 51114u9 (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

As the lead says, "the seat of government and executive capital is La Paz". Further, "The Bolivian seat of government moved to La Paz at the start of the twentieth century, as a consequence of Sucre's relative remoteness from economic activity after the decline of Potosí and its silver industry and of the Liberal Party in the War of 1899." If "capital" is a term meaning "seat of primary government entities", then La Paz is a capital of Bolivia, whether or not the country's constitution says so. Largoplazo (talk) 23:17, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Czechia

I would like to point out that Czechia legally only has one capital (in fact, if you told most Czechs that Brno is supposedly a "second capital" they would be very confused). The capital city is defined by Act. no. 131/2000 Col., known as the Law on the Capital City of Prague. In fact the full name of Prague is Hlavní město Praha - Capital City of Prague. The capital is defined by the law and not by where institutions are hosted. Brno plays host to several institutions as a result of an effort to decentralise from Prague. In fact in 2019 the parliament debated moving quite a few other government institutions out of Prague to the thirteen regional capitals outside of Prague. However, this wouldn't mean that Czechia would have 14 capitals - legally there is still just one capital, as defined by the above-mentioned law. I would therefore propose fixing the map on this article to remove Czechia. --Avenflight (talk) 19:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Any contribution I make to this discussion would probably mirror the discussion I already participated in last year at Talk:List of national capitals/Archive 2#Inclusion of seats of government outside of a country's main capital. That thread began with a complaint that someone has removed a bunch of non-capitals from the list, with the plaintiff arguing that they belonged because some national governmental institution was located in each of them. My comment "Following your rationale as stated here, we'd be calling half the localities within 30 miles of Washington, D.C. "capitals" because some U.S. office or other is located in each of them. This is not 'List of localities where a nation has at least one of its institutional headquarters'" sums up my opinion there and here. Largoplazo (talk) 23:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Czechia isn’t a country. Checkeslovakia was a group of countries and Czech Republic is a country but not Czechia. Its capital is Prague 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:53, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

"Czechia" is the official English short-form name of the Czech Republic. Largoplazo (talk) 17:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Please clarify whether there's a legally defined official capital(s) or not

The preamble to the tables says some countries have a single legally defined capital whereas others have multiple capitals with no official preference of one over the other(s).

Please can the tables clarify which applies in each case? Robertm25 (talk) 14:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Should Karlsruhe be considered a German capital?

Even if *de jure* Berlin is the only German city mentioned as “Hauptstadt der Bundesrepublik Deutschland”, at least *de facto* it is its judicial/constitutional capital, where its two highest courts, the Federal Constitutional Court and Federal Court of Justice, are located. Not really different from Sucre or Bloemfontein in this sense. VVVBoldrini (talk) 11:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

United States and Economic capital

Burundi and Ivory Coast are listed as countries with a separate Economic capital from Political capital. United States have New York as Economic capital for banking, finance, insurances and more. Washington DC is not Economic capital. Further countries such as Canada and Brazil can be said to have a different Economic capital. --BIL (talk) 20:04, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

In many countries, for several reasons, the economic center is not the political capital (for example, also in Italy or Switzerland). Unless it's something officialy recognized, I don't think that would be a good idea to add all these cases in the page Floydpig (talk) 07:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Why are we listing "economic capitals"? Shall we list Hollywood and Mumbai as movie capitals of their respective countries? Or Gilroy, California as the Garlic Capital of the World? Metaphorical capitals shouldn't be included. Largoplazo (talk) 09:16, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

United States fiscal policy is determined through the Federal Reserve, located in Washington, DC. This is the basis of America's economy, and where the decisions that uphold monetary stability are made. New York City has no such power, and since 2020 and a rise in remote work, Manhattan is losing the power of a centralised economic sector as the Internet decentralises economic workflows more equally across the country.

And when this happens, the Federal Reserve will still be in DC. 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 21:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Ivory Coast

I cannot edit the page, but Côte d'Ivoire has been very adamant about not wishing to be called the Ivory Coast, and as such, and it would be more accurate to change its name to reflect this. 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

We have a rule called WP:COMMONNAME, whereby we default to whatever the most commonly-used name is. Even their article is named Ivory Coast. — Czello ^(music) 21:06, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Does this rule also apply to trans people when they change their names, that one must continually refer to them by their more commonly known name? How do you determine what "most commonly used" is? 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 12:39, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

In any case in my view such a change should be made first on the main Ivory Coast page (which also has redirects from Côte d'Ivoire). A quick look there shows this point has been brought up repeatedly but has not gained consensus for change. Arnoutf (talk) 14:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Countries in the map

Some countries are highlighted in the map, but aren't in the table. Aminabzz (talk) 04:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Netherlands 2

@Teysz Kamieński @Largoplazo Please discuss the current issue of the netherlands here in this talk page. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

So one hand you have people who stick to the dictionary definition of capital and ignore the distinction between capital and seat of government. And on the other hand you have people who do make a distinction between the two. I belong to the latter group as do other Dutch people who previously tried to make this clear twice earlier on this very talk page. I simply have no other arguments besides this one. So I won't repeat myself any further. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 12:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I mean have you seen the other countries like bolivia, they have both their constitutional/administrative capital and their legislative capitals listed as different. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:02, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I was not aware that Bolivia has a similar situation to the Netherlands. I mean I saw it listed, but I didn't look into it to verify it until now. It seems they also explicitly state in their constitution that Sucre is the (only) capital even though La Paz is the seat of government. They make the same distinction, so it appears it's not just a Dutch thing. So Bolivia too should be removed from the list. This is unlike Eswatini which apparently has officially two capitals although I can't find any specifics on Eswatini besides the infobox stating that both are capitals, one executive and one legislative. Malaysia appears to have two capitals with a lack of specifics as well. I just learned that South Africa doesn't actually have a legally defined capital (similarly to Switzerland), but they do mention Cape Town as the seat of parliament in their constitution. But then again, their government website does list the same three capitals. And Sri Lanka seems to have two capitals as well, but also not a lot of specifics. Without more specifics or knowledge about their situations I cannot determine whether or not those countries should be listed or not. So I will limit my discussion to Bolivia and the Netherlands which both should not be listed here as they both clearly state what their (singular) capital actually is in their constitution and do not mention the other city in any capacity. Both make the distinction that one is the capital and the other is the seat of government. I don't know about Bolivia, but no one in the Netherlands refers to or thinks of The Hague as a capital besides it actually being the provincial capital of the province of South-Holland. We see it as the seat of government which is distinct from a capital. As much as we cannot change the definition of the English word capital neither can any foreign entity determine that The Hague is somehow our capital. It's just not. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 15:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be the opposite, instead of removing Bolivia, adding the Netherlands seems to be a better ideo. I know you have your own POV but i think the consensus for Bolivia is to not remove it and the Netherlands seems to be similar. We don't go by strict definitions mate. Also the Hague is commonly considered to be the Netherland's de facto capital by many new sites and the dutch public. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

the fact that the Hague is considered a de facto capital is even stated in the wikipedia article for the Netherlands. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Which is just another place where they mention this misinformation. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 16:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Now tell me, why is it misinfo? Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

For one, after double checking, nowhere on The Netherlands it is mentioned as such. It is always refered to as the seat of government which is still not the same as the capital. Secondly, it seems you missed the entire discussion. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 16:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Don't use ad hominem in a dispute. The page that i was actually trying to refer to was The Hague (sorry). But i did not miss the whole discussion (To be honest it was more of an edit war). Which dictionary are you using to "define" a capital mate. And what is the exact definition. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, it was not ad hominem. It was a reference to the discussion at hand to prevent me from having to repeat myself (again). The Hague does mention that indeed. Wrongfully so as it's based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. And that is the problem. Y'all are holding on to the dictionary definition which does not make the distinction either. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 17:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

"It is based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. And that is the problem. Y'all are holding on to the dictionary definition which does not make the distinction either."

Can you tell me the distinction? You are assuming that you are absolutely correct in this discussion and that anyone else is incorrect. You are also slightly implying ownership of the article which is against the Policies of Wikipedia. You are the odd one out in this discussion (at the time of this reply). Both me and @Largoplazo versus you so consensus is in our favour (not that it's relevant in the end, i just want to blow off some steam). Please be more open so that this discussion can get somewhere. Thank you, Yours Sincerely Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

To be clear: No one owns pages. Including me and both of you. No one. And to claim that I "own" the page based on one edit, which was reverted, is absurd. From my POV it seems y'all think you are correct and are not willing to see it any other way. I have been very clear from the start about the distinction. The Hague is the seat of the government and Amsterdam is the capital. A seat of government is not a capital. Normally the capital is the seat of government as is the case in most countries. The Netherlands and Bolivia are some of the exceptions however and both make the distinction where one city is the capital and another city is the seat of government. So how can a city be a capital if it doesn't house the government? Well in those two cases mentioned the country designated it as such and/or it did house the government in the past and kept the designation for what ever reason. In the case of Amsterdam, it is also culturally the capital as it has an important role in the country. It has everything a capital has, just not the government or the head of state (or be the main media hub as that is Hilversum similarly to how LA is the same in the USA). Although the Dutch monarch is crowned and married in Amsterdam. But burried in Delft. But I disgress. There is not much I can add or do if you don't recognise that there is a distinction. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 23:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Wrongfully so as it's based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. In my poodle scenario, this corresponds to "... a British source which doesn't understand that not all poodles are dogs." The British source doesn't "understand" the distinction because the distinction is a fictional invention. (By the way, I haven't seen yet, if you think there is a distinction, what you think a capital is.)Largoplazo (talk) 14:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

What Dutch public? All the (Dutch) people I asked today were flabbergasted that anyone could see The Hague as the capital. They could see the reasoning, but just don't see it that way. As much as y'all don't see it our way. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 16:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

"the capital" I said the de facto capital, not THE capital. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

It is not seen as any kind of capital besides provincial. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 16:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

It is not seen as any kind of capital besides provincial. This illustrates the invalidity of offering an absolute, particularly in the passive voice with no subject identified, in a dispute. The very fact that it's a dispute means that your statement is false: there are those (like me) who see it that way. Therefore, it is seen that way. Largoplazo (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

The context is the Dutch public. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 09:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, the context of Wikipedia is the entire English-speaking world, not the (Dutch-speaking) Dutch public. And, just as with poodles, the entire English-speaking world isn't obliged to observe some odd quirk about the meaning of a word that the Dutch have agreed to among themselves by convention. Largoplazo (talk) 11:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Sangsangaplaz asserted that the Dutch public shared their view with which I disagreed and replied by saying that the Dutch public doesn't view it that way. I didn't claim that no one saw it that way. The statement is part of a thread where the context was implied. It is not isolated. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 17:53, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

"The Dutch public doesn't view it that way" And can you support that claim? You aren't the only person who has access to the Dutch public mate. I have tons of Dutch friends and family (yes I have Dutch in-laws) who say the Hague is the secondary/de facto capital Also it doesn't matter too much if the Dutch don't consider it to be the de facto capital since this is the English Wikipedia.

'English Wikipedia Also I forgot to mention I had sources.'.

Sources: *https://www.britannica.com/place/The-Hague

• https://www.sporcle.com/blog/2018/03/what-is-the-capital-of-the-netherlands/amp/
• https://www.astarfuture.co.uk/city/the_hague.html
• https://international.appstate.edu/node/1757

Sangsangaplaz (talk) 13:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll rephrase: A part of the Dutch do and other Dutch people do not. Personally I've yet to come across a Dutch person who views it that way and I was born and raised in the Netherlands and I still live here. But as you point out that doesn't seem to matter anyway. Teysz Kamieński _(talk) 23:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Maybe we lived in different places because I stayed in the Netherlands for about a year. Anyhow it doesn't matter if the dutch people don't view that the Hague is a de facto capital if the rest of the world does (due and undue weight). Which as stated earlier is the case (along with the sources). Sangsangaplaz (talk) 05:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I recommend not arguing about the tone of a fellow editor but I agree with your point. I think the consensus is that the Netherlands should be included. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 09:26, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I spoke only of the validity of their argumentation. I didn't say anything about their tone. Largoplazo (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

"The Hague is the country's administrative centre and its seat of government, and while the official capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, The Hague has been described as the country's de facto capital." - The Hague Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2023 (UTC)