Talk:Egyptian vulture

More work needed

This was a one line stub and I've added a lot of info and photos, but further work is required on grammatical structure and improving the layout, and probably other things I haven't paid attention to. But please excuse me, I'm pretty new to wiki.--Yunis 17:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Egyptian Vulture/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Keilana (talk · contribs) 20:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi Shyamal, I'm working on the review and will post it as soon as I can. Thanks for your patience! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I thoroughly apologize for how long this has taken me; I have a review but just haven't had the time to type it up yet. I'll hopefully find the time in the next few days. So sorry! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 14:04, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, here's the first bit. I have a lot of comments that are spread around the criteria, which I've organized by section for your convenience. Please don't be intimidated by the large number, most of them are no big deal. Also, they're just suggestions, so if you disagree, please just leave a little note and we'll sort it out.

Lead

• Wikilink "Neophron" and maybe "genus".

Neophron would be a self-link - so not linked. Genus linked.

Okay. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 16:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

• Change "has" to "is" and remove "been" in "it has sometimes also been known"

rewritten - these are historic names that are not in current use and that has to be indicated.

Gotcha, this is why I don't do the copyediting. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 16:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

• The phrase "and the underwing black and white pattern and wedge tail make it distinctive" is awkward.

rewritten since. Please check current version.

That's much better, could you change "makes" to "make"?

• Add "other" after "to break the eggs of" and add a comma after "birds".

redone.

• Change "make use of tools" to "makes use of tools"

redone.

• Decapitalize "Century".

done.

Nice job. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 16:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Taxonomy and systematics

• Change "Neogene of North America" to "Neogene period in North America"

good suggestion. Done.

• Add "that were" before "placed in the genus"
• Remove "the name" in the parentheses.
• Add "genetic" before "relationship are unclear".
• Change "The genus is considered to be" to "Neophron is considered to be".
• "Within the vultures" is unclear phrasing.
• "And the closest living relative is the Lammergeier (Gypaetus barbatus)" is awkward phrasing.
• Who are the "some authors" you refer to?
• What are you referring to when you write "they should be placed in a separate..."?

rewritten this portion.

• Wikilink "Gypaetinae"

Redirects to Perninae, which would be confusing. The subfamily is only proposed.

• Add a comma after "subspecies of the Egyptian Vulture" and change "although" to "though".

comma added. "Although" seems more appropriate since this indicates that the subspecies are not clear cut.

• Change "a subspecies" to "The subspecies".
• "Said to have a dark bill..." is vague. Does it have a dark bill or not?
• The phrase "(said to have a dark bill with a yellowish tip) described by Nikolai Zarudry and Harms is rarely recognized" is awkward.
• Who is Härms? Give his/her full name and wikilink it.

M. Härms - a minor associate of Nikolai Zarudny, unable to find anything at this point.

• Add a comma after "Central Asia".
• The phrase "the north-west of the Indian subcontinent" is awkward.

now northwest of India.

• You need a citation for the section on subspecies percnopterus.

All covered in source at the end of the paragraph.

• In general, I don't like the bullet points. Make that a paragraph.
• "with an all pale bill" is awkward.

Dropped.

• Expand on the differentiating characteristics of ginginianus and the origins of its name.
• When you say "largest subspecies", you need to be more specific.

Dropped. Larger size mentioned later.

• The phrase "where they are known by the name of guirre" is awkward.

have attempted a rewrite.

• You need to cite the first part of the majorensis point.

It is the same Donazar et al. paper cited at the end of the paragraph.

• You need to cite the bit about majorensis being genetically distant.

It is the same Donazar et al. paper cited at the end of the paragraph.

• Change "they are not migratory and are consistently larger" to "it is not migratory and is consistently larger".
• You need to cite the part about migratory patterns etc.
• Wikilink "Fuerteventura" and "Guanche".

Done

• Change "A study" to "one study" and find a date for the study.
• Remove "and the establishment of the population may have been" and add a comma after "2500 years ago".

Redone

• Wikilink "Neophron" to "Neophron (mythology)" and wikilink "Bulis".
• The sentence about Neophron and Timandra needs a bit more explanation.
• The phrase "imagining it was Timandra" is unclear on first read.
• Change "the deception" to "Neophron's deception" and add "out," after "found"
• "take out the eyes of her son" is weakly worded.

Redone.

• Change "the species name" to "percnopterus".

Done

• Transliterate the Greek words (I believe it's "perknos" and "pteron" but I'm awful with Greek.)

done.

• Change the caption of "Adult nominate subspecies" to "Adult of subspecies percnopterus".
• The whole paragraph beginning "The adult's plumage is white" needs more thorough citations.

The entire description paragraph is from the Ali & Ripley source given at the end. Only that which is not derived from this source is included inline.

• Change "The adult plumage is white" to "The adult's plumage is white".
• Move "however" in the 2nd sentence (should be "However, the white plumage usually appears soiled")
• Describe the bird's habits that soil the plumage further.

Found a source for this.

• Combine the sentences about the bill and the nostril to reduce choppiness.
• Change "The feathers on the neck" to "The neck feathers" and wikilink "hackle".
• Combine the sentences about the wings and the tail to reduce choppiness.
• The sentence beginning "The bill is black" should be moved to earlier discussion about the bill.
• Who says that "this variation may need further study" and why?
• Move the description of the juvenile to the beginning of the paragraph and expand it significantly.
• Change "1.5-1.7 metre" to "1.5-1.7 metres".
• Cite the sentence about measurements.
• Remove "in" before "N.p. ginginianus"
• Specify which subspecies weighs 2 kg.
• Add length/other measurements for majorensis too.

added in infobox

• Why are you comparing it specifically to Iberian birds?

The weight is from Donazar et al. who compare it with Iberian birds (possibly because they had access to them, being Spanish)

• You need to add a weight comparison for ginginianus.

not found, weight, wingspan and length are extremely variable and used only in popular works, never for reliable scientific use.

This section is looking so much better! Thanks for doing great work. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 20:49, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Distribution

• Change "South Asia" to "southern Asia" for parallelism.

Done

• Change "and nest mainly" to "and they nest mainly"
• "arid and rocky hill regions" is awkward phrasing.

Redone.

• Change "about 3500 to 5500 km" to "over distances of 3500 to 5500 km" and put the distances in miles as well as km.
• "A bird that bred in France migrated south only in its third year" - what is normal for Egyptian vultures, and why is this specific case significant? Explain both please.

Was incorrect. Fixed now.

• You need to add information about other migration patterns, not just those from Italy.
• This section generally needs expanding.

Expanded a bit, modified section heading as well.

Behaviour and ecology

• The first sentence is awkward, probably because of the overuse of "often".
• Add commas after "carrion" and "vegetable matter".
• Remove "as well as" before "vegetable matter".
• Remove "mammalian (in this case)" and just say "ungulate faeces".
• Change "in obtaining" to "the bird to obtain".
• Add a comma and "which are" after "carotenoid pigments".
• Change "the bright yellow" to "their bright yellow"
• Change "they are usually silent" to "Egyptian vultures are usually silent".
• You need a citation for "nests are often traditionally used"
• Remove "traditionally" in the phrase above.
• Change "Birds are however" to "However, birds are"
• You need a citation for "They are socially monogamous..."
• Change "is however noted and adult males" to "is noted; however, adult males"
• Change "The nest sites" to "their nest sites"
• Put a comma after "buildings" and change "as well as" to "and".
• Change "Unusual nest sites such as on the ground" to something like "unusual nest sites (e.g. on the ground)"
• Add "both" before "N.p. ginginianus"
• You need a cite for the Indian nesting period.
• You need to include information about nesting periods in other parts of its range.
• Change "Both parents incubate and the two eggs hatch after about 42 days" to "Both parents incubate the two eggs, the first of which hatches after about 42 days"
• Change "The longer the interval, the more likely is the death of the second chick due to starvation" to "the death of the second chick due to starvation is more likely after a longer interval."

rewritten

• You need information on when other populations fledge and leave the nest.

Not really available, but unlikey to differ much.

• The sentence "Young birds disperse..." is awkward.
• You need information about displays and agonistic behaviors and such.
• You need a citation for the adult plumage information.

present already.

• What is the life expectancy for wild birds?

added

• "After colliding with powerlines and through the effects of pollution and poisoning" is awkward.
• The paragraph about predators needs more thorough citations.
• Put a comma after "eagle owls".
• Change "off the cliffs" to "off of cliffs".

rewritten

• Put a comma after "especially in Africa" and "an ostrich of bustard"
• Change "the bill" to "its bill", "it" to "the pebble", and "the neck" to "its neck".
• Change "the operation" to "this operation".
• Add "However," before "This behaviour".

rewritten

• Add "both" before "hand-reared and wild birds"
• Did you mean to say "naive"? If so, what does that mean in a scientific context?

removed, naive would be birds that have never seen eggs before in this case

• Add "is innate and" before "not learnt from observing".
• With the Bulgarian birds - do other birds do this? In any case, this is abrupt and needs a better transition.

Rewritten

Conservation Status

• Change "The Egyptian Vulture is" to "Egyptian Vulture populations are"
• Change "plentiful" to something else, because it implies that the vulture is a food crop.
• The phrase "and the populations in India and southwestern Africa have greatly declined" is awkward.

Rewritten

• What is the population density now? You also need to give statistics for other populations.

No figure available, but annual decline rate added for getting an impression.

• Put a comma before "and by electrocution", then remove "by"

Done

• Change "their innate immunity" to "the vultures' innate immunity"
• Add "of Egyptian Vultures" before "in the Canary Islands".
• Where have the vultures "declined greatly"? Specify where (say "in the Islands" or somesuch)
• Is there a better word than "distinctiveness"?
• More detail is needed on how the island birds are more susceptible.
• Add "also" before "appear to accumulate".
• Add a comma after "is not known".
• Change "although it alters the mineralization" to "though it is known to alter the mineralization".
• Move "however" to before "These interventions"
• Add "other" before "opportunist predators".

Changes made to cover above comments, some rewrites and additions as well.

In Culture

• Why is there "(3)" after "glottal sound"? Was it copied from another Wikipedia article?

Seems like, there is an image used in the linked article. Have replaced this with the IPA form now.

It's not a three but the Egyptological character ꜣ ("apostrophe" over "apostrophe"; see the linked article for details). It's a consonant, not a vowel, so /ɑː/ is not correct.Hieronymus Illinensis (talk) 10:28, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

• The sentence "The Hebrew word "rachamah/rachan" used in the Bible and translated into English as gier-eagle refers to this species" is awkward. Also, unbold "gier-eagle" and put it in quotes.

Rephrased with additional sources, pleae check - it is about the translations of the Bible.

• Change "the bird" to "the Egyptian Vulture" and specify "in the ancient Egyptian religion" after "Isis".

Done

• Change "association" to "use" and specify who used the term "Pharaoh's Chicken".
• Put a comma after "ghee".

Done

• Change "was attributed" to "has been attributed".

Original retained. As this was something they often did in the past rather than something that happened just once.

• Specify where the legend comes from.

Mostly hearsay like most legends - anyway, this entire section is now changed to past tense. The vultures no longer visit and this is quite certain - having been discussed on various egroups and written about here but no reliable sources to support any strong statement of their absence.

• Add "that" before "the vultures" and put a comma after "Shiva"
• Change "with two of them leaving" to "two of whom leave".
• "The habit" should be "Their habit".
• Add a comma after "moñiguero".
• Put "to be" before "among the ugliest birds", put a semicolon after "ugliest birds", and remove "and".

Most suggestions incorporated. Please check afresh.

Just to make clear, these are all just suggestions. Thanks so much for your patience and for doing a great job! Let me know if you've got questions or disagree with suggestions - I'll be watching this page and you can always ask on my talk page. Good luck! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 00:01, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for your diligent reading and suggestions, it forced me re-read, to look up some of the sources again and find new ones as well. Please recheck and feel free to add any new suggestions. Also feel free to make any minor corrections yourself. Shyamal (talk) 05:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for writing an awesome article! I'm really impressed with what you've done. I just finished re-reading, and I did change a couple of minor grammatical/wording things and left detailed edit summaries. Once you just check over the edits I did to make sure I didn't wreck anything, I'll be happy to promote the article. Congratulations in advance! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 04:50, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Great edits! Thanks again. Shyamal (talk) 16:12, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Two retracted articles found

I found and marked two retracted articles in the references. I decided not to remove the information yet. Should it be left in and marked as retracted or removed right away? Stongey (talk) 11:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for finding and pointing them out. I wonder if there may be a purpose to pointing out that some studies were faulty and non-replicatable. I have however removed the citations and the statements based on the retracted studies A and B. The statements that we had earlier included were "The island birds, owing to reduced exposure to infections and low genetic diversity, appear to be more susceptible to infections due to a weaker immune response." (Gangoso et al. 2009) and "Furthermore, studies in Spain suggest that the absorption of veterinary antibiotics suppresses the vultures' innate immunity, making them more prone to infection." (Lemus & Blanco, 2009) Shyamal (talk) 13:07, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I had the same questions... In this case, I'm pretty sure that removing the info is the right decision. Stongey (talk) 21:38, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

File:Neophron percnopterus - 01.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Neophron percnopterus - 01.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 11, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-10-11. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:25, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Picture of the day

A captive Egyptian vulture (Neophron percnopterus) showing white plumage. Wild specimens usually appear soiled, with a rusty or brown shade to the white plumage, derived from mud or iron-rich soil.Photograph: Carlos Delgado

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Removed Egyptian mythology bits

Some bits of Mut and Nekhbet referencing this does not make the species clear. A reliable source that identifies the association would be needed for restoration. File:Egypt.Nekhbet.01.jpg clearly looks more like a Gyps. Shyamal (talk) 15:03, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Significance

Egyptian Vulture is an icon in the prehistory civilizations of the Nile River.

The fine vulture is mentioned in the "Qur'an". in fact in the middle ages, Egyptian Vulture became an occult symbol for "Saladin" and the armies of the "Saracen".

"Egyptian Vulture" became an icon for the independent countries in the "Middle East" and continue to be respected presently. 11:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)~\11:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)~\ 137.59.221.36 (talk) 11:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Slightly inconsistent citation style

This article appears to follow the citation style of using short footnotes to all cited works listed in alphabetical order in the cited works section. There are a few citations which do not follow this style, so unless there is some objection, those citations will also be moved to the Cited works section. A notice on the citation style used in this article has been posted on this talk page to provide assistance to those interested in which style is being used for this article. J JMesserly (talk) 21:19, 13 March 2023 (UTC)