Talk:Llantwit Major

Llantwit Major has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 17, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 17, 2012.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Saint Patrick was a priest at the monastery of St. Illtyd of Llantwit Major when he was reputedly abducted by Irish pirates, later becoming the patron saint of Ireland?

UK geography Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements.UK geographyWikipedia:WikiProject UK geographyTemplate:WikiProject UK geographyUK geography articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wales Mid‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

The Welsh page http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanilltud_Fawr has a location map that could be imported (and translated) RupertB 18:40, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good Idea - On It Now MatthewGall2005 09:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The abrasively contemporary style of this article needs revising. There are too many references to current personalities and developments. Historical significance and literary references need to be given priority. I have restored a deleted historical reference----Clive Sweeting.

Until concerns addressed article proposed for at least partial deletion----Clive Sweeting

I have deleted the description of a restaurant with telephone number given for booking. Contributions to this article need regular watching for advertisement type info----Clive Sweeting

I have deleted unsubstantiated reference to Cor Tewdws, but left a cross-reference to the separate article, which requires rewriting by someone expert in the inventiveness of Iolo Morgannwg and his ilk and the refutation by G.J. Williams. I propose also the deletion of the Arthurian section (done- questionable historicity, doubtful assumption of continuity from Silurian to sub-Roman period)----Clive Sweeting. The Arthurian section has been restored.Unless substantive arguments are forthcoming in justification of its contents I propose to delete it in early July----Clive Sweeting

Article Cleanup[edit]

On editing this article, I think it's due a bit of a cleanup. Does anyone want to help? I've added a little bit about the recent filming of Doctor Who and The Sarah Jane Adventures within the town (referenced of course). MatthewGall2005 (talk) 15:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would hardy describe the Leisure Center pool as Medium Size, it's under 20m and anything under 25m is small. I'll amend to small. 90.197.249.106 (talk) 19:17, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Hugh Davies[reply]

New Photo[edit]

Llantwit Major Beach Panorama

I've got a photo that I uploaded to the commons that I took back in August 09, I was wondering if anybody more familiar with the standards and guidelines could take a look and see if it is suitable material for the page, and if so advise me on it, as I feel it may add to the page. Lxsys (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that's great, will add.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The information relating to the early Christian-Dark Ages period needs thorough checking in the light of recent scholarship.Illtud's provenance needs confirmation, but Brittany was not in France but in Gaul in the fifth century. I am uncomfortable with attention to various hostelries and local politician (in fact there appear to be fewer references to local worthies than previously) which must (constantly) be reined in. Excellent use of photographs and useful description of a series of buildings and monuments----Clive sweeting

The information has been checked.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But outdated (e.g. nineteenth century) and other non-academic (e.g. Note2) sources are being quoted----1 March 2012 Clive Sweeting

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Llantwit Major/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grapple X (talk · contribs) 22:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Ah Wales. Thanks for Alex James, Shirley Bassey, Richard Burton and Christian Bale. I guess that makes us even for Tom Jones, Charlotte Church and the accent.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
I'm not sure a full etymological breakdown of the name is needed right up front. Stick it in a note ({{#tag:ref|{{lang-cy|Llanilltud Fawr}} -- ''llan'' church enclosure + ''[[Illtud]]'' + ''mawr'' great)<ref>A Topographical Dictionary of Wales by Samuel Lewis 1833</ref>|group=nb}} to create the note and <references group="nb" /> to cite it). Keep a translation up top, though, and append the note to that.
I'd suggest splitting the opening paragraph of the lead into two, breaking it at "Llantwit Major's name is taken from the Welsh name "Llanilltud Fawr"", as that starts a train of thought on its history, changing from the previous information on its location.
"Llantwit Major's name is taken from the Welsh name "Llanilltud Fawr", named after Saint Illtud, who came to the area from Brittany, France and founded the monastery of Illtud and the college attached to it, Cor Tewdws, which would grow into one of the most esteemed Christian colleges of the times, attracting over 2000 students at peak including princes and numerous eminent clergymen, now revered as saints." -> Really should be more than one sentence. I'd suggest " Llantwit Major's name is taken from the Welsh name "Llanilltud Fawr", named after Saint Illtud, who came to the area from Brittany, France. He founded the monastery of Illtud and the college attached to it, Cor Tewdws, which would grow into one of the most esteemed Christian colleges of the times. At its peak, it attracted over 2000 students, including princes and numerous eminent clergymen, now revered as saints."

I've made into a separate paragrpah and reworded as you said but can you sort out the note of the translation into a footnote, cheers, I can't think how to do it!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"14 mile long coastline" -> Might be worth sticking {{Convert}} in here.

Converted all of the distances.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The town's name in Welsh, Llanilltud Fawr, is named after him" -> Surely it's the town, and not the town's name, that is named after him? Perhaps "The town's name in Welsh, Llanilltud Fawr, is derived from his name"

Fixed.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Hywel ap Rhys, king Glywysing (d. 886) was buried at the monastery." -> I don't know if this is one or two people. Is Glywysing the regnal name of Hywel ap Rhys; should it being "Hywel ap Rhys, king of Glywysing"; or are these two different people? Or have I missed something?
"Tythe" should be "tithe", unless the Y is a common Welsh spelling (for the record though, Irish use of the word is always with an I, so I'm not sure it would be).

Fixed both.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"In the 20th century, Llantwit developed into a dormitory town and grew about 15 times in size to accommodate the RAF at St Athan." -> Since this is the first mention of the RAF in the article body, it'd be better to use "Royal Air Force".

Fixed.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's a few more measurements under the "Geography" heading that could do with {{Convert}} - "100 yards" and several uses of miles.

Fixed.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"the The Tudor Tavern" -> drop the lower-case "the" here. Might also be best to move this to the front of the list so it reads "Of note are The Tudor Tavern, the Old Swan Inn, Old White Hart Inn, and West House Country Hotel Heritage Restaurant."

Fixed♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The current Mayor is Cllr Ralph Austin" -> Any word on the party Austin stands for, or the party breakdown of the council? Would be a good addition as the "local government" part of this section is a bit short.

Cllr means Councillor.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:24, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem, but a suggestion—there's plenty of listed buildings here, apparently. Might be worth firing up a list article of them, based on, for example, Listed buildings in Runcorn (urban area). There seems to be plenty of information that can be migrated or copied from this article to support a solid list.

Didn't you see the shrinkable box with the full list? May consider a split later though as there are plenty more buildings which could be written about.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:52, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"organize" -> Wales uses BrE, and not Oxford English, I believe. Should be "organise". There's also "organized walks" in another heading that could be changed too.

I believed I've fixed that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The Thomas's built the Town Hall clock to commemorate Queen Victoria’s Jubilee." - I fixed the erroneous apostrophe, but which Jubilee? QE2 just had a third one and she's reigned for less than Vickie did.

The geograph caption says it could be either Golden in 1887 or Diamond in 1897. Unsure, so I've removed the jubillee part.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:22, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
"There is a plaque on the gatehouse, telling of its history. Historians have recently suggested that this plaque may have been erected after a grain-related incident involving local peasant Benjamin Kirkham that later resulted in his expulsion from the town." - Definitely needs cited.

Removed.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to see the three uncited entries under "Notable people" given citations, I would imagine these are already available on the relevant articles. If not then I could let them go as they're not hugely controversial.

Sourced.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:44, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Seems okay. Big focus on landmarks but that's not distracting or detrimental.

I think its a pretty comprehensive article, its only a small town and most of the detailed info is on the Illytd monastery and church. The historic buildings and early history and surfing/beach is really all that's notable about Llantwit. I've mentioned the fair, the artisan's shops and some of the other things but I feel the buildings which are covered are important to it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:27, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I didn't mean that as a negative. GRAPPLE X 22:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Seems neutral to me.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Stable and uncontroversial.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Lose the two maps under the geography heading. They squash the text inwards too much, and the panorama is a much better image to keep here. There's also an image without a caption, should be given one. All the images are free which is nice.

Removed.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Overall:
Pass or Fail:
I've pointed out a few heft of minor issues but this should really only take a brief period to see to. Sticking this on hold for the time being to address these. Your range of interests never ceases to confuse me, Doctor. GRAPPLE X
Looks good to me. I think you misunderstood me about the local government (I was wondering which political parties were represented in the council, especially which one the mayor belonged to), but I went and had a look for that and added it. Going to pass this one now. Well done! GRAPPLE X 22:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I appreciate it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

History source gone dead[edit]

I've had to mark Local History of Llantwit Major as a dead link. It's a very central source in the article, so can someone come up with an alternative, please? (I had a go online without success.) Otherwise, some rejigging of citations will have to be done. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 06:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unfrotunately the whole website www.llantwitmajorvale.co.uk has gone for some reason. If it could be archived somehow. I'm not giving the article a whole revamp just because a website decides to disappear. The information was there when it was written.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The disappearance proves that the source was and is inadequate for WP purposes, especially in a purported "good article". Is there no print-published version of the cited facts? The flimsy website must have relied on more substantive sources, which are the ones we need. We don't accredit just any information which appears on a website not backed by any authority or permanence. Let's hear from the people who have hard documentation. There are eleven citations to replace. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 14:01, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, but I'm an educated enough editor to not rely on "flimsy websites". If it appeared to not have been acceptable I'd not have used it and neither would the reviewer have permitted it. Please show your fellow editors some respect. I will try to replace those sources in the coming week.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:26, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, sincere apologies, Dr B. I had carelessly failed to ascertain the impressive degree of your contribution here. My comment was about the vanished source, not intended to impugn any editor. I humbly offer to assist as soon I have obtained appropriate published sources from Llantwit Major Local History Society and elsewhere. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 03:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Llantwit Major. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 11:35, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Llantwit Major. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111006210623/http://www.llantwitmajortowncouncil.gov.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57 to http://www.llantwitmajortowncouncil.gov.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Llantwit Major. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110907053906/http://www.westhouse-hotel.co.uk/index.html to http://www.westhouse-hotel.co.uk/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Llantwit Major. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:54, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Llantwit Major. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:47, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]