Talk:Limerick

Maigue Poets

Since the article linked to says absolutely nothing on this subject, the link should be taken out and this section should give an explanation of what is meant. 100.15.117.207 (talk) 23:50, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

"the fourth-most populous city on the island of Ireland"

I'm going to remove this claim as it's unsourced and almost certainly incorrect. There is no reference in the article to support it and it therefore seems to be implicitly supported, via link, by List of settlements on the island of Ireland by population. The problem is that that article isn't comparing like with like and therefore doesn't support the statement. As the intro to "List of settlements..." makes clear, the figures for cities in the Republic of Ireland (i.e. Limerick) are from 2016, whereas the figures for cities in Northern Ireland (i.e. Derry) are from 2011. So what we have is

Limerick (2016 population) 94,192. Derry (2011 population) 93,512.

Derry's population has been growing at a faster rate than Limerick's in recent times, so it's 99.99% certain that Derry's 2016 population would have been higher than Limerick's. Rather than relegate Limerick to fifth place, I think it's best to remove it altogether, though a possible compromise would be saying that Limerick is one of the five largest cities on the island. Valenciano (talk) 18:34, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

So you base your claim on guesswork? The Banner talk 18:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I base the removal on WP:VERIFY: "All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed." No source for this claim = no inclusion. Valenciano (talk) 19:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

You base the removal on plain guesswork. You give no evidence for your claim at all. The Banner talk 19:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

No, as I have said several times, I base the removal on the total lack of a source to verify it. Do you get WP:VERIFY? Hint: it's key to how things work round here. Valenciano (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

What part of my opening statement "I'm going to remove this claim as it's unsourced " is unclear? Valenciano (talk) 19:40, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

What part do you not understand from "based on guesswork"? The Banner talk 19:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

All of it. Sourcing material which is challenged is non-negotiable. You find a WP:RS to support the claims, it can go in. You don't, it doesn't. You continue to add unsourced material, things escalate and not to your benefit. Valenciano (talk) 19:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

That table you are referring too is sourced. But you think, hope, guess that Derry is more populous. In fact, a claim based on nothing. So I call your removals vandalising. The Banner talk 19:51, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

The table is based on figures for one city in 2011 and one city in 2016. Chalk and cheese. It proves nothing other than that the second city had a slightly larger population in 2016. It would only support a sentence like "Limerick had a slightly higher population in 2016 than Derry did in 2011." That statement is random and adds nothing to the article. You can call the removal whatever you want: WP:AIV is thataway, but don't be surprised if WP:BOOMERANG applies. After all, it is you that is adding unsourced material. You wish to include the 4th largest statement, find a source that explicitly says that. WP:VERIFY and WP:BURDEN with a light seasoning of WP:SYNTH. Valenciano (talk) 19:58, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Your statement is indeed random and just an aggressive way to get what you want. But it is based on nothing but spite. Why do you not come with proof that Derry is more populous? The Banner talk 20:01, 3 December 2020 (UTC) But I must admit that you know your abbreviations, although I am not impressed or convinced by that. I just want evidence.

I suggest you stick to the topic. What impresses you or me or doesn't impress us is not remotely relevant. What is relevant is that you come up with a source to support the claim you want to include. If you are unable to do that then case closed because I see little value in circular arguing which essentially boils down to you saying "I want to include that, but can't find a source for it, so I'll chuck in a few baseless personal attacks and aspersions." Source, please. Valenciano (talk) 20:08, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

The source is the CSO which states Limerick City has a population of 94,192. This is larger than the claimed Derry City population of 93,512 (which by the way doesn't even have a source. NISRA says the population of Derry City in the 2011 census was 83,163). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyireland (talk • contribs) 20:15, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Yep, so there's another issue, the table that claim was supposedly sourced to has incorrect figures. If someone can tidy that up and find like for like comparisons (2011 figures versus 2011 figures) then we're good to go. Valenciano (talk) 20:23, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

The population of Limerick City in 2016 was 94,192 and in 2011 it was 91,454. If you can provide proof that the Derry City population is greater than those then please do. Tyireland (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Great, so we can add that it was fourth largest at the 2011 census. Since The Banner apparently doesn't "do sources" or understand WP:VERIFY, I'll add the refs. Valenciano (talk) 14:50, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

You wanted a source, I gave you a source. And yes, I expected that you would not be happy with a source. The Banner talk 15:31, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Ow, and your source claims Derry / Londonderry, Newry and Omagh experienced a modest fall in population.. That also contradicts your claim that Derry is growing much faster than Limerick. Also Derry population and live births to decline. The Banner talk 15:36, 4 December 2020 (UTC)