Talk:College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some listed non-major selectors are literally jokes[edit]

The list of unique national title selections by non-major selectors includes some that are not to be taken seriously, are not unbiased, or are literally jokes.

The Baton Rouge Advocate wrote about the 2004 Auburn selectors:

”Well, the Eufaula [Alabama] Tribune polled its six-person staff and declared Auburn No. 1. And the Tigers were named “People’s Champions” in an online survey organized by a fan in Opelika [Alabama]. But those could hardly be considered unbiased.” And Golf Digest named Auburn national #1 after Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville jokingly asked the magazine to do that.

In 1983, Bruce McLellan, sports editor in Macon, Georgia, did the equivalent, if Wikipedia had existed then, of looking up information in Wikipedia to make his selections. All of his claimed sources are sources listed for this article.

Jack Kent Boyd was a 21-year-old Tulane student in 1931 who released a book that year naming, who else, Tulane as national champion.

An AP sportswriter named the Saint Vincent team in 1936 as national champion by the joke transitive property.

And the Washington State Senate picking Washington State … give me a break!

The above selectors only sully the reputations of the other legitimate non-major selectors who are listed. Therefore, they should not be included.

Jeff in CA (talk) 02:21, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that some of the picks in the section are contrarian selections, protests against the choices of the polls and BCS invites, perhaps with some local bias as well.
With regards to 2004 Auburn, the awards by these nouveau selectors were very well covered by reliable secondary sources writing about the BCS snub of the 13–0 SEC champion. The Golf Digest anecdote made the headline of The Wall Street Journal's coverage of Auburn's case for the national championship. "But that's nothing new for college-football fans nor coaches, who are used to the concept of mythical titles based on the opinions of some."
Tommy Tuberville accepted the Peoples' National Championship trophy alongside the Foy-ODK trophy at a basketball game in 2005, presented by Jim Donnan of ESPN. The trophy is displayed prominently today at Auburn. Other teams would recognize and accept the PNC trophy in subsequent years : Florida 2006, Alabama 2009.
Auburn / Tuberville had the team's rings engraved as "National Champions" after they were declared as such "by anybody". The Eufula Tribune's poll and selection was noticed enough to get a retrospective article 13 years later.
These Auburn selections were actually a major part of the 2004 bowl season media discussion, which itself justifies their inclusion in the table.
PK-WIKI (talk) 06:43, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the 1936 transitive property selection, 1936 Slippery Rock's clame to the title is regularly discussed as part of the "mythical national championship" story and college football lore. Ranks as one of the "most absurd and controversial"; the only non-major selection in the list. Slippery Rock's selection definitely has the coverage to be included in this list, despite being satirical.
The only problem is... per our research above, it appears that Slippery Rock was never named champion and doesn't even have a transitive property path to the title. Saint Vincent was the actual selection; they are listed instead. Someone should write a story about this smooth pebble.
PK-WIKI (talk) 07:14, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The text of the article states, “Teams in the following table were selected by notable national championship selectors.” The Eufaula Tribune, Golf Digest, Bruce McLellan, Jack Kent Boyd — none is notable for football, and they are not selectors of any kind. They are just number one pickers, with picks that are no more notable than your or my picks. Beware any so-called “selector” that fails to rank teams and instead only picks a number one team, especially if they only did it once. (I know some major selectors such as NCF, HAF, and PD didn’t rank, but they are in the NCAA book, so are notable.) Jeff in CA (talk) 20:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The sources cited for this article and at MNC are very clear that there is no official organization of national championship selectors, and also, critically, that selections from local, one-off, and non-traditional national championship selectors are an established part of the sport.
"...as the decisions were about to be made by all the people who currently chose national champions—everyone, it seems, from the AP to Sara Lee." (1967)
"It was basically the same thing that the late Bear Bryant once said - that even if a local grocery store were to name Alabama as national champions, the Crimson Tide would count it." (2005)
"to Richard Nixon’s self-anointed role in choosing a national champion ... did not anticipate the implications of getting personally involved in the declaration of a national champion, as sportswriters had been doing with a lack of definitive success for decades." (2013)
Thus your distinction between card-carrying "selectors" and mere "number one pickers" is complete WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH.
A more exclusive list of established, serious, or respected selectors is certainly needed as well. The NCAA has designated one such list, duplicated here in the "Major selectors" section, as has the widespread public recognition of the two wire service polls listed in the "Major Polls" section. These sections form the majority of the article, as is appropriate for WP:DUE weight.
The "Other selectors" section at the end of the article covers the selections not included in the the above sections, but that still represent significant views published by reliable sources. 2004 Auburn is a perfect inclusion in the table: a 13–0 SEC Champion ignored by the major selectors but whose pick by lesser selectors received widespread media attention and caused the university to semi-claim the national championship on their team rings and recognize it in their media guide.
PK-WIKI (talk) 21:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2024[edit]

Under the Other Selectors section, you guys need to change the coach’s name of the 2014 Oregon Football team. Chip Kelly WASN’T the coach of the 2014 Oregon Ducks. Mark Helfrich was the coach. Mgm815 (talk) 06:43, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, thanks PK-WIKI (talk) 06:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Auburn championship claim update[edit]

Auburn Athletics recently claimed three more championships (1913, 1983, 1993) which is credited on their football team Wikipedia page but it is not reflected on the full list of team claims as they are still at 2. There was an article on it recently. 98.29.64.110 (talk) 08:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also posted here in October 2023: Talk:Auburn Tigers football#Auburn claimed National Championships: 2 vs. 5
There is a rumor sweeping blogs and twitter that the university has officially claimed the 3 additional years on their Auburn Football Tradition and History web page.
The reality is that that webpage has been online in the same form since 2018 and is is no way a recent change to Auburn's claims. The 5 championship years still are always clearly attributed as sourced from the NCAA book:
The NCAA Record Book lists Auburn as National Champions in 2010, 1993, 1983, 1957 and 1913.
2010 | 1993 | 1983 | 1957 | 1913 (Source: NCAA Record Book)
Meanwhile, the athletic department constructed and maintains a giant sign on the side of Jordan-Hare Stadium, visible to the 88,043 fans attending each game:
Auburn Tigers
National Champions
1957 2010
This prominent display of the the 1957 AP Poll and 2010 BCS titles, and exclusion of the 1993, 1983, 1913 (as well as 1910 and 2004) titles, is the cited proof that Auburn University continues to claim only 1957 and 2010.
This issue was also previously discussed here:
PK-WIKI (talk) 07:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Historic occurrences addition?[edit]

Should 1940 (1941 Sugar Bowl) b/n Boston College and Tennessee be included? Yes, I know that Minnesota won the AP national title, but if we're going to include the 1985 Orange Bowl b/n Washington and Oklahoma, should this be added since there are WP:RS from 1940 billing the game as "national championship contest."[1][2][3] Oluwasegu (talk) 00:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


References

  1. ^ Harris, Otis (December 2, 1940). "As we were saying". The Shreveport Journal. Vol. 44, no. 285. Shreveport, Louisiana. p. 14. Retrieved March 5, 2023 – via Newspapers.com. [T]he game will come closer than any other that will be played to identifying the national champion.
  2. ^ Digby, Fred (January 1, 1941). "The Game Today". Seventh Annual Sugar Bowl Classic Souvenir Program. pp. 27, 71. Retrieved March 5, 2023 – via Digital Public Library of America. Each will be out to the limit in speed, stamina and spirit to capture the honors in this classic which could rightfully be heralded as for the national football championship.
  3. ^ Written at New Orleans. "Boston College homebound after joyous celebration in New Orleans following Sugar Bowl win". The Shreveport Times. Vol. LXVIII, no. 213. Shreveport, Louisiana. January 3, 1941. p. 10. Retrieved March 5, 2023 – via Newspapers.com. 'The Eagles not only earned the national championship but they proved the greatest team ever to play in the Sugar Bowl,' said Fred Digby of the New Orleans Item.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2024[edit]

Under "National championship claims" LSU incorrectly redirects to LSU Tigerss Football which is an invalid link TravisOfSDK (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done PianoDan (talk) 17:55, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS&oldid=1219601353"