Talk:List of South Park episodes

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2023

Requested edit to the Home Media section, Season 25 (UK region 2) was released on DVD on 1st May 2023. Jc13jach (talk) 19:24, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

• Thanks for the tip. - SanAnMan (talk) 20:42, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

References

references list

I think the reference list is broken, can someone help fix it? Xery1234 (talk) 18:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Paramount+ specials

I feel like the South Park specials on Paramount+ don't count as actual episodes. I know that the "Post COVID" specials are supposed to serve as a continuation of the "South ParQ Vaccination Special" from season 24, but "The Streaming Wars" (parts 1 and 2) and the recent special "Joining the Panderverse" don't serve as a continuation of anything, they're just regular specials that are also known as "exclusive events". 2601:195:C001:2630:C92C:700F:2AB9:FC50 (talk) 14:50, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

This has been discussed in the past and the consensus was to treat the specials as episodes. [1] Barry Wom (talk) 15:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

New Paramount+ special

Paramount+ just revealed a new South Park special titled "Not Suitable for Children" (no, really, that's what the title of it is). The trailer for it on Paramount+'s official YouTube channel (which is unlisted) said it was now streaming, but I don't know if that's true. Here's the link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8nKhZY--0g 2601:195:C001:2630:64FB:4C0:4055:43E0 (talk) 17:26, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Paramount+ specials and series overview

Hey, I know that the Paramount+ specials should be their own section of the article, but now I honestly think that they should be after the seasons. For example: the Post COVID specials from 2021 should be after season 24 since that season was only 2 episodes, the Streaming Wars specials from 2022 should be after season 25, and the Joining the Panderverse and Not Suitable for Children specials from last year should be after season 26, if you know what I mean. It was also announced back in February of 2022 that Paramount+ would be the official new home for the show starting with season 27 (I don't know if it's actually happening or not since they haven't released a trailer for the season yet), so once that season debuts sometime this year, I need the series overview section in the article fixed. Here's a source for the article in case you don't believe me: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/south-park-beavis-and-butt-head-moving-to-paramount-1235094214/ AndrewTheWikiEditor (talk) 00:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

We tried the other method before and it looked sloppy. It looks best the way it is. As for your article, if you actually read it the article states that the DIGITAL LIBRARY of South Park is moving from HBO Max to Paramount but new episodes will continue to air on Comedy Central. So both of these suggestions won’t be done. - SanAnMan (talk) 02:07, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thank you, I understand that, but I only have a few things to say. First, I don't think we need the number of specials "overall", just the "number" of specials. Second, in the series overview, the specials are split into two-episode groupings. I know that there are two specials per year, but I don't think we need that since we were promised 14 specials, that's why I think the specials should be after the seasons. Third, the specials should also have short summaries, but I don't know if we need any sources for them though. AndrewTheWikiEditor (talk) 00:55, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Is there a reason as to why the series overview should be shorted chronologically, but the episode tables not? I have yet to see a reason be provided outside of constant reverts. -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:26, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@SanAnMan "Change format without consensus and discussion on talk page" is ironic, given my above post and your recent revert without any further discussion, as well as your format change without consensus or discussion. Do you intend to only edit-war? -- Alex_21 _TALK 08:27, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Your edit summary claims "This matches WP:TV standards across tens of thousands of articles."

Surely this can't be the case? The MOS states "Episodes should generally be arranged in order of airdate [...] However, there may be situations where ordering by airdate would not be beneficial to readers".

I can't see why listing the episodes in this article non-chronologically would be beneficial. Quite the opposite, in fact. Barry Wom (talk) 09:49, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I too don't see any reason why the episode tables shouldn't also be listed chronologically. At one point this was how it was presented and I'm not sure why the specials have since been consolidated into a single section. Barry Wom (talk) 09:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The standard is that the series overview is laid out in the same manner as the episode tables. An example of non-chronological episodes would be Supergirl (season 1) or List of Futurama episodes, where they are listed in the correct production order.

Apparently the specials within the episode tables is "too busy", according to SanAnMan, who then proceeded to make the series overview table too busy without consensus or discussion on the talk page. -- Alex_21 _TALK 10:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd support reverting to the specials being presented chronologically throughout. Barry Wom (talk) 10:22, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

If that ends up being the case, I support removing the network parameter from the series overview, as it's becoming too crowded swapping networks every single row between specials and regular seasons. -- Alex_21 _TALK 10:44, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

It's useful information, but perhaps a note at the head of the overview section describing on which network the "regular" episodes and specials aired would suffice. Barry Wom (talk) 11:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I disagree with removing the network parameter. While the top section does discuss the network changes between regular season episodes versus specials, there are still readers who will skim past that and be confused by the table if the network is removed. We also tried before having the specials combined at the end of the episode listings, but that resulted in a confusing perennial "TBA" for the end date, which looked sloppy. As for the other suggestion of reverting back to having the Episodes section go back to "season....specials (2021)....season....specials (2022)....etc" that just looks to be adding more length to an already extremely lengthy section. The format as is now with the Series Overview alternating between regular seasons and special episodes, and the Episodes section having all of the specials combined into one section takes up less space and is less clunky from my perspective, and above all else, is accurate and thorough. - SanAnMan (talk) 15:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Then we can include it in prose above the series overview table. (Thank you for actually replying to the discussion this time, instead of reverting and not discussing with an accusation of not discussing.) Swapping networks fifteen times between every season and specials row is more detrimental than beneficia to readers. As I said: The standard is that the series overview is laid out in the same manner as the episode tables. So will the specials be grouped together in the overview and episode tables, or will they be added in between the the overview and episode tables?

However, that being asked, I'd say there's already an agreement above to include the specials as tables between each season episode table. Can you show us where you received an agreement to split then in the overview? -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:17, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Alex 21 The layout in place currently is a compromise based on an edit made by AndrewTheWikiEditor on this edit. In Andrew's edit, he had the Series Overview section with the Specials after each appropriate season (as is in the current version) but also splitting the Episodes section into separate sections after each season. From my perspective, having both the Series Overview and Episodes sections split so much is very wordy and takes up more space than is really needed. I agree that the Specials should be kept chronological in the Series Overview section, but I just don't see a need for separate Episodes sections for each year's specials. Especially when the article prose already states that the contract is for two specials per year.

As for the network information, I can compromise with a note at the top of the table stating something to the effect that all regular season episodes aired on Comedy Central while all Specials aired on Paramount+ if that will help clean the table up a bit. But I still stand by my view that the seasons in the Series Overview section should remain split as is with Specials sections following each regular season, and that the Episodes sections can stay with one section for each regular season and one section for all the specials. I realize this is an opinion, but it makes the most logical sense to me, and prohibits excessive table space. - SanAnMan (talk) 21:08, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, three editors support splitting the specials, and there is no further editorial support for keeping it in the current manner. Again, the standard is that the series overview is laid out in the same manner as the episode tables, and there are no extraneous circumstances that this article need not apply to this; the edit by Andrew is how the article should be laid out (with changes to the network parameter). "Space" is a minimal issue and does not affect readability; if the specials do indeed count towards the total episode count, I don't see why they should not be listed chronologically. -- Alex_21 _TALK 09:24, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd support SanAnMan on retention of the network parameter in the overview section. Barry Wom (talk) 11:44, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Interesting change. So, you'd believe this (mock-up example) would be the ultimate series overview layout once all 14 specials are released? -- Alex_21 _TALK 12:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Yup. Barry Wom (talk) 13:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

So perhaps a note at the head of the overview section describing on which network the "regular" episodes and specials aired would suffice no longer applies? Could you explain why? -- Alex_21 _TALK 19:56, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Change of mind. Here's an example of an episode table which features specials and changing networks. Don't see why we shouldn't do the same here. Barry Wom (talk) 10:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Very interesting. Can you show me a live, existing example where the network changes between every row 15 times? -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Just pointing to a precedent, no need to be so spiky.

Can you provide a reason why we shouldn't list the network in the overview section, other than "it's becoming too crowded"? Barry Wom (talk) 09:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Per MOS:TABLES, sometimes the information in a table may be better presented as prose paragraphs; expanding further, [i]n an article, significant items should normally be mentioned naturally within the text rather than merely tabulated. 15 alternating rows can simplified to a singular line of prose; "Regular seasons aired on Comedy Central, while the specials were released on Paramount+". We follow the Manual of Style for the rest of the article; why should this be the only exception? -- Alex_21 _TALK 10:52, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Neither of those quotes from the MOS proscribe the use of the network field in this case. The latter in particular is referrring to the overall use of a table instead of text, not the contents of a table. Barry Wom (talk) 17:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

That's being pedantic; of course a general MoS won't directly mention a specific parameter from a specific template from a specific WikiProject. Both quotes support the usage of prose over formatting data as tabular. Do you have any other guidelines or MoS's that state otherwise? -- Alex_21 _TALK 22:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Missing the point.

"We follow the Manual of Style for the rest of the article; why should this be the only exception?"

You're claiming that by including the network field we are going against the MOS guidelines and this clearly isn't the case. Barry Wom (talk) 16:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I never claimed as such. I stated that prose is preferred over data being tabulated. Do you have any guideline or, at least, reason, as to why we should tabulate this data as 15 alternating rows instead of a singular line of prose? -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

If you didn't claim as such, to which exception to the Manual of Style were you referring? Barry Wom (talk) 00:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I have already stated this in past replies. I will not become part of a circular discussion, cheers. -- Alex_21 _TALK 10:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. Conclusion: the inclusion of the network field is not an exception to the Manual of Style guidelines as you claimed. Barry Wom (talk) 10:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

If that is your opinion on my quote, you are entitled to it. -- Alex_21 _TALK 10:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

In fairness, when it comes to the network info, I'm good either way. Either keep it in the table, or put the note at the top. Quick glances at other articles with this type of table and that have been on multiple networks seem to flow both ways (examples: Dancing with the Stars (American TV series), The Ghost & Mrs. Muir (TV series), Leave It to Beaver). - SanAnMan (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

One way or the other, the episodes should be in chronological order, and the series overview should match the layout of the episodes, as already supported by other editors in the relevant WikiProject. -- Alex_21 _TALK 23:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

If there are no further arguments, there appears to be a consensus that episodes should be in chronological order. -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Per consensus discussed, the episodes sections have been adjusted as discussed. There still does not seem to be a consensus on the network detail so that has been left alone. - SanAnMan (talk) 16:09, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Works for me. -- Alex_21 _TALK 20:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Horizontal TOC template with the season numbers and specials

Hey, I didn't feel like doing this without asking first, but do you think we could get rid of the horizontal TOC template in the article with all the season numbers and specials? Because it's a bit of a mess. I know some of these articles already have it, like List of The Simpsons episodes for example, but for this article, I don't think we need it anymore. AndrewTheWikiEditor (talk) 00:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)