Talk:Old Bolsheviks

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Can Trotsky really be considered an old bolshevik? The article defines an old bolshevik as someone who was a bolshevik before the october revolution. Trotsky, however, only joined the bolsheviks after the revolution begun. Perhaps he should be removed from the list? Seekallknowledge (talk) 11:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

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Trotsky old Bolsheviks

Isn't Trotsky also an old Bolshevik? He joined Lenin definitely before 1917 if I remember correctly. So why isn't he mentioned? LostCitrationHunter (talk) 08:59, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

• Sergo Ordzhonikidze belongs here too. He was listed before someone arbitrarily removed him. And why does Maria Ilyinichna Ulyanova not belong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.26.61.142 (talk) 02:02, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

  I think Inessa Armand should also be added. 2A02:9130:8DA2:F583:78F6:B3FF:FE08:8EB2 (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

• Trotsky spent much of the period between his attendance at Odessa University and the July Days either explicitly a Menshevik or otherwise fighting with Lenin in the press. The category of "Old Bolshevik" generally does not include Trotsky. Following Lenin's death, his comparatively new allegiance to the Bolsheviks was one of the major reasons it was possible for the Kamenev–Stalin–Zinoviev troika to freeze him out of the Politburo.
  I do think Ordzhonikidze and Armand should be listed, I would need to read more about the level of Maria Ulyanova's activities within the party (keeping in mind that being Lenin's sister helps a lot in the classification). — Remsense诉 23:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I came here to emphasize the opposite: The official party definition were people who'd joined Lenin before January or February 1905. By that definition, Trotsky was no Old Bolshevik. The only source in the article claiming otherwise (making people Old Bolsheviks if joining Lenin before the October Revolution) is tagged as either dubious or unverifiable, and itself refers to a single personal memory book by Chygayev from 1972. Anyways, what I wanted to say was that the tables in the latter half of the article should be corrected accordingly to go with the original party definition. Additionally, I think the part about those people executed during the Great Purges could be further divided into Trial of the Sixteen (Zinoviev-Kamenev, 1936), Trial of the Seventeen (Pyatakov-Radek, 1937), Trial of the Twenty-One (Rightists and Trotskyites, 1938), and Medvedev Forest massacre (1941). --2003:DA:CF4E:6333:9677:23B1:9206:D75F (talk) 10:19, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I did think "pre-1917" was a pretty lax definition, from my understanding. I didn't know it was an official term in any capacity. Remsense诉 19:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we can limit ourselves to list only those who joined before the 1905 Revolution. I have no objection. Vanjagenije (talk) 17:54, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I removed those who joined the party after 1905. Vanjagenije (talk) 12:40, 14 February 2024 (UTC)