Talk:Brigham Young University–Idaho

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Text with no citation[edit]

I removed the following, as it has been tagged as needing a supporting citation since Nov. 2007: "Approximately 20% of the student body is married, and about 40 percent have been full-time missionaries for the LDS Church." —Eustress talk 04:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sort of new to this but figured I would give it a gander looking around for statistics this might be a reasonable citation source it comes from BYU-Idaho's statistics page: http://www2.byui.edu/IR/stats/index.htm just want to be careful before I go adding or modifying anything as I am new to wikipediatalk 04:33, 5 Nov 2012 (UT

It may be worth checking the BYU-Idaho webpage as they often cite statistics. If that site doesn't have any stats, you could also look to the US News rankings which also carries stats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmrwikiprof (talk • contribs) 00:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"R" hillside letter[edit]

Are there any photos available for the the "R" hillside letter for the former name of this school? See also List of Hillside Letters in Idaho for more details. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 20:34, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

University seal[edit]

ChristensenMJ (talk · contribs) is correct in restoring File:BYU-Idaho Medallion Logo.svg to the infobox as it specifies on its page that it is not the university seal, but a "medallion logo". BYU, BYU-Hawaii, and LDS Business College have the same setup in regards to logos and seals. All of the schools have an academic seal, which is rarely used outside formal academic documents like diplomas and official correspondence. The formal BYU seal can be seen here and the BYU-Idaho seal looks similar. Even so, usage in this article (if we had the seal file to use) would fall under fair use, but because the seal has so little use outside very formal documents, the medallion logo functions more like the seals of other schools in that it's very visible on campus buildings and materials, just as the other text logo is. Although I have not been in the BYU-Idaho campus since 2007, during my time there, I never saw the official seal displayed on buildings, materials, or signs; only the medallion logo. Further, the medallion logos have no copyrightable features since they all contain only text. The other logo, File:BYUI logo blue.pdf, can also be placed in the infobox at the bottom (or the full-text version that appears on many of the campus gateway signs), though the file needs to be cropped as it has an excessive amount of white space around it. --JonRidinger (talk) 23:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can edit the other image to make it more presentable. My boss asked me to get the image on the Wikipedia page changed as it is the University Seal, he is the Director of Branding and Marketing at Brigham Young University - Idaho. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jossharlequin (talk • contribs) 16:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I notified Jossharlequin about WP:COI on his talk page. Bahooka (talk) 16:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Jossharlequin (talk · contribs), whether the current medallion logo is considered the official seal or not (recent diplomas use the beehive seal with "The Glory of God is Intelligence" motto), its use on Wikipedia is clearly under fair use, on top of the reality that the medallion logo cannot be copyrighted since it only contains text. Bear in mind that while this article is about BYU-Idaho, it is not owned or controlled by BYU-Idaho, so branding and style guides do not apply here beyond verifying factual items like the specific shades used for the school colors or official logos. The square "BYU-Idaho" logo or the full-text logo ("Brigham Young University-Idaho" seen on campus signs) can also be included in the infobox at the bottom. The Brigham Young University infobox uses the athletic "Y" logo at the bottom, but most university articles have the seal at the top and their text logo at the bottom (see Ohio State University for an example) with the athletic logo (BYU-Idaho has a "varsity" logo too, or at least used to) in the athletics section. --JonRidinger (talk) 23:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bahooka Thank you for explaining the conflict of interest to me. All I was told to do was change the logo. I have no plans to change the article itself, but I can see how things could escalate to the such happening. (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:26, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jossharlequin (talk · contribs), best place to look is WP:UNI/AG, which are the article guidelines for articles on universities. One thing it has is: "All institution articles should utilize {{Infobox University}} to provide the basic details about the institution, preferably with a lead image of the institution's official seal or coat of arms and an image at the bottom of the institution's wordmark..." --JonRidinger (talk) 21:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Colors[edit]

There seems to be a little back-and-forth with the school colors, though that's understandable given the sources. The PDF file Charlesaaronthompson (talk · contribs) cites appears to be a bit older based on the web link provided by ChristensenMJ (talk · contribs), which states: "IN the past the Pantone color swatch used for BYUI Blue was PMS 660. Due to subtle shifts from various printing mediums, the pantone color swatch has been changed to PMS 300. This swatch matches what the BYUI Blue has become." The PDF style guide uses previous PMS 660 as the shade of blue. The confusion is that blue is the primary branding color but gray is used in the logo, seen here, where it says "The official color scheme for the logo is BYUI blue on white with a thin gray horizontal line dividing BYU and Idaho." Adding to the confusion is this link, which says "Blue and white are the official school colors", but also says the shade of blue is PMS 660 (meaning it hasn't been updated yet) and also gives the PMS numbers for accent gray. I think it would be safe to use the latest shade of blue (hex #0071B1  ) and white since we have an actual source stating the school colors are blue and white as opposed to the branding emphasis is blue. Thoughts? --JonRidinger (talk) 13:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably natural to assume I agree with the updated edits made by JonRidinger, while recognizing there can be some confusion, as noted. When I originally reverted the colors from the good faith edits made, I toyed with whether to include white or not, so I am glad it now shows. I am comfortable with how it's currently reflected. ChristensenMJ (talk) 15:10, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree that BYU–Idaho's colors are VERY confusing. Along with the PDF source I provided (and the other sources currently used in the infobox of the main article), there's this source from BYU's Identity website for BYU–Idaho, which states the colors as PMS 660 (HTML code #4367C5  ) for Blue & PMS Warm Gray 7 (HTML code #A49B92  ) for Gray. I think maybe the colors should be left alone until WP:CONSENSUS is reached. I don't want to be blocked again for edit-warring, given my history with that. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 18:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, like I said in the edit summary and above, since we have a primary source that identifies the colors as blue and white, that's probably the best place to leave it for now. So many conflicting sources on top of the difference between approved branding colors and actual school colors. I'm not sure how up-to-date the BYU source is, though, since BYU also has conflicting sources about the use of tan (seems to be a pretty recent change). Anecdotally, when I was a student at BYU-Idaho, the use of the official school colors was inconsistent at best. Heck, I don't think I even knew what they officially were when I was there. My guess is that's mainly from the school not having intercollegiate athletics anymore, so no uniforms to make the school colors obvious. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:38, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'd just echo the sentiment that any info on the BYU website for either BYU-Hawaii or BYU-Idaho shouldn't be used or considered. This is probably somebody's good faith effort to be helpful at some point in providing info on the other institutions, but BYU has no stewardship for the others and is not likely to keep these current, if they even remember it's on their website. ChristensenMJ (talk) 22:26, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Date[edit]

Yeah, it's probably minutiae, but MOS:SEASONS seems to go against using "Fall 2015" or "Fall 2015 Semester" for the ambiguity of the seasons, but also because any enrollment count is going to be a snapshot at a given time. Since we can date the number to a specific month, that's usually the safe bet. If it was an undated source, like a general web page where there isn't a specific date attached to the number other than the semester name, then yeah, Fall Semester 2015 would be the next best thing. I know with a lot of secondary school articles the enrollment numbers just show for, say, the "2015-16 school year" (since they come from an undated report issued at the end of the school year), so the infobox will just have "(2015-16)". --JonRidinger (talk) 17:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Great thoughts. Thank you. Here's a couple thoughts. First, I actually don't think the seasons guidelines actually applies in this particular case. The way I listed it is the actual name of the time period the enrollment is being reported on. It's not trying to describe something like the "winter 1995," as shown in the MOS guideline. It really function more as a proper name in this instance. The second would be that October just happens to be when they got around to writing the article. It can't really be tied to when the enrollment data snapshot occurred. It's quite likely the snapshot was in September and this is when the article followed. I think "Fall Semester 2015" would work just fine, since that's the time frame the reporting is being done for. ChristensenMJ (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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OTRS[edit]

@ChristensenMJ: Per OTRS ticket, the medallion is "no longer the correct logo". IGiven the nature of OTRS, I can not disclose who emailed me, or why, but I'd ask that you follow Wikipedia:Volunteer_Response_Team#Disagreeing_with_a_team-related_edit since it was a ticket-related edit, and reinstate the new logo, and then icuss here on the talk page the merits of the medalion vs. logo. (t) Josve05a (c) 20:06, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note, Josve05a. As per the information captured in the above section you referred me to, I have sent you an e-mail to see if there is additional information that can be shared in a not so public sphere. Without knowing the substance of the ticket, which I get, an important thing to note is that there are multiple official logos at most universities, including BYU-Idaho. It is also hard to know, given ticket confidentiality, whether the initiating individual has any more formal/official basis for wanting a change than even simply a personal preference. Presumably, something as simple as a logo could be changed by any good faith editor, without use of a different process. Additionally, the edit brought about by the ticket represents AN approved logo, but is not necessarily THE logo - as if there is a one and only. As I noted in the edit summary, I personally think the medallion logo looks better in this setting, or for this use. If use of the other one were to be retained, I think it should definitely be reduced in size, since it seemed overbearing and not a good visual fit to the page, as inserted. ChristensenMJ (talk) 21:30, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@ChristensenMJ: I responded to your email from info-en@wikimedia.org (to link my response to the original ticket in our system). What you chose to do with that information is up to you, but I ask that you take what I wrote under advisement. (t) Josve05a (c) 22:09, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Josve05a. As noted by this web page from BYU-Idaho, there are several approved logos. It's an overstatement to indicate there is only one and that others are not acceptable. The other issue is that within WP, an organization may have style guide preferences on how they are represented, but that doesn't create a binding circumstance that must be held to. Finally, I would note that my issue of concern is as much the assertion that one is wrong or unacceptable versus a personal, or even institutional, preference. As a preference, I still think the one looks better and the addition of the other logo in the box has been done in a way that is more visually workable. ChristensenMJ (talk) 22:51, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with ChristensenMJ. We've had this issue with BYU-Idaho before. Really, the only other option for the infobox would be to use the official seal, which BYU-Idaho posted in SVG format. All of the articles on the other colleges in the Church Educational System (Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University–Hawaii, & LDS Business College) use the respective medallion logos. CES schools are somewhat unusual having the medallion logos that essentially act as a more common seal, but are officially logos instead of a seal. Never mind that the official logo of BYU-Idaho is clearly displayed on the bottom of the infobox similar to other university articles. --JonRidinger (talk) 23:05, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Possible Closing in the 1950's[edit]

Consideration was given to closing the campus in the 1950's. Church president David O. McKay visited the campus and decided to let Rick College remain in Rexberg, Idaho. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sydney Rigdon (talk • contribs) 05:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a college, not a university[edit]

ChristensenMJ recently reverted my edits that corrected this article where it labels this institution a "university." This is a college. It doesn't offer any graduate degrees, the traditional definition used in the United States for a university. Moreover, it's classified among "Baccalaureate Colleges: Diverse Fields" by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education and ranked among "Regional Colleges West" by U.S. News & World Report.

The name of the institution does not determine what it is. Just as Dartmouth College is a university, BYU-Idaho is a college. ElKevbo (talk) 05:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the thoughts, ElKevbo. It may be helpful to this discussion to provide for editors to provide reference points which state that an institution has to, or traditionally has been thought to have to, offer graduate programs as the sole criteria to be identified as a university. If one reviews this list, cited above for BYU-Idaho by U.S. News & World Report, it will identify many colleges and universities, including some which offer graduate degrees and some which do not. Although certainly not definitive, this article], also from U.S. News, tries to disaggregate the differences - including the idea that colleges are often smaller institutions, rather than one serving tens of thousands of students (which also by itself isn't a factor of determination). The thought here is primarily to note that saying an institution has to offer graduate programs in order to be identified as a university seems sparse in its parameter. ChristensenMJ (talk) 18:01, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fundamentally our own opinions don't matter very much but if you're curious then our university article discusses this, particularly in the "Classification" section. The important thing is that the authoritative sources that have examined this issue have clearly documented their classification of this institution as a college. ElKevbo (talk) 00:56, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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