Talk:Napoleon Orda

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Untitled[edit]

Why is this page here and not at Napoleon Orda? It seems strange that his name was first transcrypted to (Bela)russian and then back to latin alphabet. Why not use simply the name he signed his works with? [[User:Halibutt|Halibu tt]] 08:26, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, since Mikka insists on claiming Orda was Belarusian, I kindly ask him to provide sources for that. I know that in Belarus it is quite common to subscribe all people born in what is now Belarus to the Belarusian nation, but how does it make Orda a Belarusian? Or is he any more Belarusian than my great-grandfather who was also born in what is now Belarus? Halibu tt 11:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know that in Poland it is quite common to subscribe all people born in GDL territory to Polsih nation, and this is correct. At the same time "what is now Belarus" and Belarussian "psia krew" did not pop up out of nowhere. So prease don't restart this silly quarrel repeated on many pages. Belarusians have right for their ancestry and right for their POV presented in wikipedia. There are Russian Americans, German Americans, etc., no big deal, so why Polsish so eagerly deny existence of Polish Belarusians throughout the history? mikka (t) 18:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What sources name him as Belarussian besides Belarus and perhaps Russia? Here he is named as Polish composer:

[1] --Molobo 23:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC) Here another one: [2] --Molobo 23:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC) Another one: [3] --Molobo 23:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So you prefer to disregard "Belarus and perhaps Russia"? No wonder Ghirla is mad at you. mikka (t) 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

and Belarussian "psia krew" did not pop up out of nowhere. What are you talking about with this statement ? It's just bizarre. First Ghirla now you ? What are those bizarre and weird comments about dog's blood. I'm am sorry to state this but I simply don't understand what you want to communicate to us. --Molobo 23:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Psia krew" is how my grandgather was referred to by a pan Wisniewski, in reference to low descent of tutejszy populace. Since you didn't recognize the usage of this expression, you are obviously not very much familiar what was in Belarusian lands and how Belarusian szlachta was shy of their descent and willing to forget it and how Posish szlachta was "adopting" the "litvins" to get rid of traces of non-Polish nobility. mikka (t) 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am trying to communicate that just as I support your case in the case of Kopernik against Prussian assault, my position is the same here: Orda is called belarusian by belarusians, and this opinion is equally valid, and I don't like the demeaning attitude with respect to this long suffered people who was sucked of all blood and gene fund by Polish and Russians alike. mikka (t) 00:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality[edit]

Some sources claim that Napoleon was the Belarusian, for example - [4]. Other sources claim that Napoleon was the Lithuanian-Polish descent - [5] . In order to avoid edit wars propose to discuss it on the talk page.Sentinel R (talk) 06:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just why can't Orda be categorized as both Belarusian, Polish and Lithuanian at the same time? People like him could easily identify themselves with any of these three modern nations. Colleagues, don't be childish --Czalex 00:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise Solution[edit]

Since there is no consensus as to whether he was Polish-Lithuanian or Belarussian, we change the first paragraph to

Napoleon Orda (February 11, 1807 – April 26, 1883) was a musician, pianist, composer and artist. He is believed by some authorities to be Polish Lithuanian and by others to be Belarussian.

and put in lots of citations for both claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.156.143 (talk) 22:25, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV[edit]

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:14, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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Belarus[edit]

Why shouldn't he be called a Belarusian artist? He is venerated in Belarus, where he is considered one of the famous Belarusian artists, he was born there, his works are on the Belarusian money, even Google created a doodle for their Belarusian page on his birthday. Most Polish sources called him Polish and you ok with it; Lithuanian called him Lithuanian and you are ok with it; Belarusian sources called him Belarusian and you remove it from the lead entirely. Just why? Artem.G (talk) 08:53, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All we know that he is venerated in Belarus, did he consider himself Belarusian? Marcelus (talk) 08:59, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with @Marcelus:. Moreover, I see some contradictions when it comes to Lithuanian and Belarusian identity in such cases, considering it was once the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Orda descended from 'Lithuanian' nobility. Nonetheless, I do not mind adding a sentence about the fact that he is highly regarded and important in Belarus e.g. see Tadeusz Kościuszko. Merangs (talk) 09:17, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, such addition can be a solution. Regarding whether he considered himself a Belarusian - is there any source that says he considered himself a Lithuanian? (Other that "descended from 'Lithuanian' nobility"?) Artem.G (talk) 09:57, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]