Talk:Arecibo message

Arecibo answer

The new entry on "Arecibo answer" is based on crop circles, and sub-optimal references. I propose to delete it, or move it to some article dealing with crop circle hoaxes. Rowan Forest (talk) 00:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

The article currently has a section titled "The Response from "Aliens"" which is a bunch of conspiracy theory stuff citing crop circle sites and UFO conspiracy theorists. Can this kind of stuff just be deleted? It obviously has no legitimate sources, but I don't know what the procedure is. 80.221.144.4 (talk) 20:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it is nonsense. No reason to perpetuate that hoax in this article. Rowan Forest (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Prove it not true before saying that OBVIOUSLY its false.

This answer is no hoax and the sooner people start raking these things seriously the better 118.92.107.252 (talk) 23:16, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

That's not how it works. You need to give evidence that a claim is true before expecting people to treat it as such. If you can provide reliable sources that it isn't a hoax and is in fact a response from aliens, then by all means, add that section back in. Germanater09 (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Editors continually inserting "hoax" in the title of the Arecibo crop circle subsection

Now that two different people have inserted their opinion of "hoax" into the title of the Arecibo crop circle, it's time to get this on record.

Wikipedia is an encylopedia, and reputable encylopedias only insert "hoax" into the title of an event if there is absolute, provable certainty of it being a hoax. Such a bar of extreme certainty has not been met. As such, the editors who are consistently adding "hoax" to the title of this subection are inserting their own opinion over a more neutral and balanced representation of a title that only represents what is actually known: that a crop circle came into existence.

As a scientist myself, I do not have definitive proof on whether 1) extraterrestrials responded to the Arecibo message or 2) some humans managed to create two large and incredibly detailed and incredibly precise crop patterns in a single night without being caught or ever admitting to it, where the pattern indicates knowledge of stable single-stranded RNA patterns that humans don't contain, binary arithmetic, the fact that silicon has carbon-like properties, or that the perpetrators were likely involved in the crop circle created at the same spot a year before (which was a stunning display of fractal and geometric precision never demonstrated by humans at such a scale, let alone in 2001). Both possibilities are statements of extraordinary claims and neither side has the extraordinary evidence to back up their side. It is extremely presumptuous, arigorous, and does a scientific disservice to humanity to take a stance of labeling this situation as solved and completely understood when it is not.

Just ask yourself: What if you're wrong about this "hoax" label you're so fond of throwing around? What if extraterrestrials actually made this? Are you prepared for your opinionated editorship to be recorded for the public to see for all time? How many Galileos and Copernicuses must we persecute before we allow both sides of a phenomenon to be investigated without bias or censorship? To believe in the possibility of aliens being near/among us is the heresy of our time. It may end up being false (though UFOs are now suddenly not a "hoax" after all), but it may not, and a true scientist/editor must keep an open mind to multiple hypothesis that fit the data.

Please reconsider your stance on this issue and the historic repercussions that could result. 108.20.198.252 (talk) 20:17, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

See WP:REDFLAG, WP:FALSEBALANCE, and WP:FRINGE. Neutrality here is clearly identifying a hoax as such: reliable sources ubiquitously consider crop circles anthropogenic. "Provable" is not our standard. VQuakr (talk) 20:47, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

The BBC's article on this topic in 2021 favors my proposal of balanced, neutral reporting that reports both sides fairly without using biasing labels in the title. ([1]https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210822-englands-crop-circle-controversy) As I pointed out in my edit that mentioned SETI considering it a hoax in a web article that SETI took down, BBC makes it clear that many consider the circles to be a massive hoax conspiracy but also explains that many close to the issue consider most circles to not be hoaxes. This is the kind of standard we should be following here on Wikipedia where readers get a balanced understanding of phenomena, not an editor's single-sided opinion on the matter.

Do I need to include this BBC source and add a sentence and/or phrase at the beginning of the subsection that crop circles are controversial? Unless there is a reliable source detailing who is able to produce hundreds of such intricate patterns quickly in the dark without being caught and how they could possibly manage it, I am not comfortable swaying the opinions of millions of readers with a biased title. 108.20.198.252 (talk) 00:38, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

It's difficult to overstate how obviously this isn't going to happen. Wikipedia is not the place for you to promote muck about crop circles. No, the BBC article is a travel newsblog intended to promote tourist interest in a region and doesn't meet the extremely high standard outlined at WP:REDFLAG. VQuakr (talk) 01:33, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I am not promoting either direction on this topic. YOU are. I am calling for a balanced and neutral position, which you and David have a serious problem with. I agree this will not be resolved, as I continue to think it is highly inappropriate to insert the biased label of "hoax" in the subtitle, and both of you started an edit war over constantly re-inserting "hoax" every chance you get, which is considered vandalism in the journals I work with. However, since you and David are the overlords of this particular patch of Wikipedia where what you say goes and not anyone else, enjoy your dominion over being the thought police here. I fervently hope this public record survives long enough for your decisions and actions to be taken to task and that one day you will feel some degree of remorse over what transpired here. I am unhappy about this situation, but I will be willing to make an honest attempt at understanding and forgiving you when that day comes. This will be my last statement on the matter, and I will not make further edits. Go well, and keep a more open mind in the future. You will need it. 108.20.198.252 (talk) 02:49, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

With all respect, if you look at the Talk page comments and page history; you will see that the "hoax" line has been discussed comprehensively previously and agreed. No-one but yourself is causing an "edit war". As you will notice, I have personal working experience of his hoax, although this could be quoted as WP:OR. Nevertheless, all the reasons for labelling the "reply" a hoax are detailed on the page history, Talk page by persons who have been deeply involved, or studied the subject, and there is absolutely no reason you go over them again. Nor is there any reason for you to insult editors, who appear to have far more experience of the subject than yourself. Case closed. Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 11:18, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with thr op. You should NOT be inserting Hoax into this. Rhis message has in fact been proven to NOT be a hoax.

Infact i belive wikipedia (or atleast some of it editors) are guilty of purposely putting false claims to true events.

Please remove the word hoax from this. 118.92.107.252 (talk) 23:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

No, absolutely not. It's a hoax. Please read all the detailed comments. Thank you, David J Johnson (talk) 12:15, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

the case is only closed in your mind mate 77.44.14.68 (talk) 11:07, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The evidence of it being a hoax should not be hidden in a talk page, it should be in the section where the claim is made. Otherwise the assertion shouldn't be in the title. Just like the assertion of it being an alien response shouldn't exist if there is no evidence for it. Wikipedia can describe a crop circle without making either claim. 64.250.205.81 (talk) 22:48, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Crop circles have been shown to be manmade pranks time and time again. People have demonstrated how they’ve made them. Since there’s no extraordinary evidence otherwise, it should be assumed that this is a hoax like all the other crop circles. Occam’s razor clearly applies. Opportunity Rover (talk) 00:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

When considering the extraordinary evidence of the details of many crop circles, Occam's razor dictates that many (but not all) crop formations are created by something other than humans. To say all formations are created by humans is a very extraordinary claim, and that requires extraordinary evidence which has never been adequately provided. (Two old men creating a few shoddy formations in the 1990s is far from adequate) The contents and manner of the Arecibo crop formation's appearance gives the definite possibility that it was formed by extraterrestrials. The fact that you're trying so hard to remove it by improperly invoking Occam's razor suggests that you're trying to suppress this likelihood from gaining public attention. In fact, after reading all of the back and forths over the years on this article, I think the few editors who have tried so hard to remove this potential extraterrestrial reply to the Arecibo message are suspect of serving something other than the public interest. Why is a small group of edtiors so vested in tirelessly fighting the majority by getting this info removed or slandering it as a hoax? Something is wrong here. 108.20.177.124 (talk) 02:09, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Audio version

This is pointless to include. Even the plain text version as 0s and 1s lets someone copy/paste it if they want to do something with the raw data, but the audio version does nothing to aid understanding; it's just one particular sonification of a binary string, with no particular indication that it's even representative of how the message was modulated in the first place. I strongly suggest removal. Any objections? 35.139.154.158 (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Please remove the audio file from the top (File:The_Arecibo_Message.wav) per the above comment and lack of objections. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 20:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:54, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Claim that the image of the message shifted is "sufficiently organized"

I think this needs a reference or elaboration. Quantifying degree of organization is a delicate matter. I can add some discussion on this point, but just checking whether the original author of this line had something in mind that I haven't heard of? Probably not, I've researched this topic quite a bit, but it would be interesting if they did. Bollus101 (talk) 10:22, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

The word ‘Hoax’ should be removed in the subheading. There is no evidence to suggest it is a hoax, and indeed, the research carried out by experienced biophysical and aerospace scientists have established it is exceedingly complex and was completed in a matter of hours. It would be inappropriate to call it a hoax without the proper citation and conclusion which does not exist. 2.25.78.74 (talk) 19:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. The article was just protected again, and this time for three months, because of attempts to make this change. Meters (talk) 21:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)