Talk:List of Watch Tower Society publications

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Revised editions[edit]

It is claimed that the Daniel's Prophecy book was revised based on the copyright note found in Watchtower Library. Has anyone identified any text that is changed from the first edition? It may only be referring to the latest printing of the book, rather than any revision. For example, a quick perusal of the latest edition of WTLib shows the following publications with discrepancies in their printed edition date (1st number) vs their release date (2nd number):

  • My Book of Bible Stories - 2006/2004
  • What Does the Bible Really Teach? - 2009/2005
  • Draw Close to Jehovah - 2006/2002
  • Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? - 2006/1985
  • Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? - 2006/1998
  • Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy! - 2006/1999
  • The Secret of Family Happiness - 2006/1996
  • Keep Yourselves in God’s Love - 2009/2008
  • The Bible—God’s Word or Man’s? - 2006/1989
  • The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived - 2006/1991
  • Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life - 2006/1995
  • Mankind’s Search for God - 2006/1990
  • Learn From the Great Teacher - 2006/2003
  • Worship the Only True God - 2006/2002

I doubt that so many items were revised in 2006, especially since the Knowledge book has been replaced by the Bible Teach book, and the Worship book has been replaced by God's Love. -- Needscurry (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the books listed above were released as soft-cover editions, probably in the years stated. Whether textual revisions were also made would need to be considered on an individual basis.--Jeffro77 (talk) 00:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are trivial differences, some of which may not be in the text. For example, Watch Tower is reputed to have an unstated policy of replacing photographs of Witness models who cannot be confirmed as "exemplary" when a publication is otherwise reviewed. --AuthorityTam (talk) 16:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A textual comparison of the Knowledge book between 2004 and 2009 (before and after the 2006 revision) shows that the only change in wording is "600" changed to "hundreds of" on page 26 (and I seem to recall that this particular difference existed in some printings prior to 2000 anyway). (There are other very minor changes involving non-breaking spaces, bullet characters, and diacritic marks in Greek transliterations.) It is quite probable for at least some of the publications listed above (including the Knowledge book) that the re-release relates to the change to soft-cover. Obviously this would not be the reason for those publications listed above that were originally released as soft-cover. It is also possible that some or all of the publications may have had artwork changed, which could be for the reason suggested by AuthorityTam or for other reasons.--Jeffro77 (talk) 23:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel's Book[edit]

Has anyone identified any text that is changed from the first edition? -- Needscurry (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found it. — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 10:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It only was reprinted in 2006. No changes at all! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.76.251.125 (talk) 13:40, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Songbooks[edit]

Is it available in orchestral recordings? — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jones: Tract 6 title[edit]

The title is given in: Schulz and deVienne: The Publishing Ministry, 2010. (truthhistory.blogspot.com). It exists as a single original. The front cover can be found on books.google.com. It is listed as Bible Students Tract number 6 by worldcat, formerly OCLC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.223.210 (talk) 18:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

{{movereq|List of Watch Tower Society publications}}

List of Jehovah's Witnesses publications → List of Watch Tower Society publications — Early Bible Students publications are not really 'Jehovah's Witnesses publications'. Additionally, there are most likely other Bible Students publications that were printed after the schism in the movement resulting in the separation of Jehovah's Witnesses (with the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society) from other sections of the movement. I would therefore propose either:

  1. Renaming this article (back) to List of Watch Tower Society publications; or
  2. Splitting out pre-1931 publications to a separate article, List of Bible Students publications, in which case:
  • Include reference to publications such as The Watchtower that span both groups in both articles and
  • Add more-recent Bible Students publications to the new article.

At the moment I think I prefer the first option for simplicity.-- Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:15, 2 July 2010 (UTC) Jeffro77 (talk) 10:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moved as per proposal

billinghurst sDrewth 12:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Young People Ask Book Vol II[edit]

The YPA Book Vol II is a new book, but not a replacement or revision of Vol I. There are two seperate volumes, or two seperate books, rather than a revision of the first. Natural (talk) 10:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

There was a semi-colon separating the publication years of the separate volumes, rather than the commas that separated the revisions of the first volume. I have re-condensed them into one line and made it more clear that they are two distinct volumes. For consistency, I have done similarly with the Isaiah's Prophecy volumes.--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Very good.Natural (talk) 15:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

The two brochures on evolution (2010) should be included in the evolution section[edit]

The Origin of Life—5 Questions Worth Asking (2010) Was Life Created? (2010) should be included in the evolution section. Maybe make a note that it is a brochure and not a book? Natural (talk) 10:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

The two new brochures are already in the Brochures section. It would be ambiguous to move only some brochures into the Books section. Unless you're suggesting combining the Books and Brochures sections completely, by removing those headings and promoting the sub-headings to a higher level, with brochures indicated as such in each instance.--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These two brochures (only) aren't so much used for preaching, but were specifically made to refute evolution and promote creation. So, they would be more appropriate in the evolution group than brochures for evangelizing or preaching. They could be included in the brochures for preaching as a secondary group. The primary grouping would be evolution. Natural (talk) 15:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

Preaching or Evangelizing[edit]

In this subtitle,

For study and preaching

maybe the word evangelizing would be better, as preaching is a subset of evangelizing. Preaching donotes one aspect, of one person telling another person. Whereas evangelizing includes teaching and converting, in addition to preaching. Comments?Natural (talk) 10:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

Fine.--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Videos[edit]

It seems as if there is only one video on the page. There are about 20 videos that probably should be posted. A couple of the vidoes are topic specific Evolution/Creation - Bible. But most are general. Comments?69.115.172.182 (talk) 12:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)Natural[reply]

Go for it.--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Study aids[edit]

I have reverted a change by an anonymous editor who stated that JW 'study aids' are to 'teach people about the Bible'. The aim of these study aids, as evident from their content and from other statements in publications such as Our Kingdom Ministry is that by the end of the study, the student will be baptised as a JW. The aim of these publications is not merely to 'teach people about the Bible' independent of any other expectations.--Jeffro77 (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The heading "These publications are intended to convert interested individuals" struck me as a bit jarring and out of place. For one, the immediate next header is: "Secondary aids are considered just before or shortly after baptism" so it is not even consistent. Secondly, I am not sure that I agree with the talk page reason you give for keeping the header, as it includes original research (private interpretation of primary sources) and citations of a publication that might not even apply to all of the books listed, e.g., how does a 1980's Kingdom Ministry support the statement that "Studies in the Scriptures is intended to convert interested individuals"? Thirdly and lastly, making statements about intent is always notoriously difficult and subject to conflicting interpretation, while making statements of fact is much simpler and should be preferred.
With that in mind, a possible alternative header might be something like:
"These publications are generally considered prior to baptism"
It is concise, clear, consistent with the other headers and doesn't make assumptions about intent, only fact. May I have your thoughts? Teary Oberon (talk) 22:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The intended purpose of the 'Bible study' program offered by Jehovah's Witnesses most definitely is to convert individuals to the JW faith, though the students are not told of that goal at the outset of the study. For example:
  • "Your goal is to help the student achieve greater insight into the truth, qualify as an unbaptized publisher, and become a dedicated and baptized Witness of Jehovah"—Our Kingdom Ministry, April 2001, page 5;
  • Chapter 18 of What Does the Bible Really Teach?, pages 174–183;
Your alternative wording would therefore be misleading, because the students don't start out with any intention of being baptised as members of the religion—they just think they're 'learning more about the Bible'. Your wording would only be suitable if the order of events was a) a person wants to be baptised as a JW; b) they study the necessary literature; c) they get baptised.--Jeffro77 (talk) 00:47, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have added references to the article supporting the fact that the publications are used with the goal of converting individuals.--Jeffro77 (talk) 01:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As to your concern that the citation for more recent 'Bible study aids' may not apply to older publications, the cited sources for individual publications in the list indicate the progression of successive publications used for this purpose, leading back to Studies in the Scriptures.--Jeffro77 (talk) 01:36, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In regards your talk page only comments prior to the move, please forgive my poor memory if I cannot remember a handful of posts from several years prior. I honestly have no recollection of ever engaging in Wikipedia discussions before this. I also sincerely hope that you do not attribute false intentions to me based on events of the distant past. I do not wish to insult you (though you have already insulted me) or merely "defend a religion." My only goal here is to improve the quality of the article, because it “bugs the hell out of me” in its current form for many reasons. Speaking more specifically of those reasons:
I agree with your citations only to the extent that they support the specific point:
“These books are/were used as primary study-aids.”
This is specific and useful information relative to the purpose of the Article, which is to classify Witness publications. Per citation [9], we can clearly identify certain books that were differentiated from other books in terms of study-aid primacy.
But the point “these publications are intended to convert interested individuals,” is not well constrained and does nothing to further the purpose of the article.
It is not a well constrained statement in the sense that it is not unique to only those publications listed beneath it. It can be very easily be argued, and you would agree, that every publication and piece of media allowed in the Witness Ministry is intended to convert interested individuals, including tracts, brochures, videos, Bibles, records played on gramophones, etc. It can easily be argued, and you would agree, that the entire purpose of the Witness Ministry in general is to convert interested individuals. I agree with you on that point. But the proper place to make that point is on the page discussing the purpose of the Witness Ministry as a whole, not here. Your header here can apply to nearly everything in the entire Article, and so it serves no purpose in classification and tells us nothing unique. We would lose absolutely nothing if we deleted the statement entirely, because the main header (“Primary Study-Aids”) already covers the purpose of the list.
This applies equally to Section 2.5 of the Article. I do not see the usefulness of this Section and I think it is overly-specific classification.
I also stand by my previous point that statements of intent should always yield to statements of basic fact when both are used as a means to the same end.
Therefore, I propose deleting the statement entirely, while leaving the citations attached to the individual publications. Alternatively, we may adopt the wording of my original proposed change, which is a true and simple statement of fact, fully consistent in use with the exact similar header in the very next Section.
I also propose deleting Section 2.5 and finding somewhere else to distribute its contents. Teary Oberon (talk) 02:23, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't question your motives, I simply provided a reminder that you have previously contributed to Talk pages. Whether you remember is unimportant, and not pertinent to this discussion, which is why it was not copied to this page. If you wish to respond to this matter further, this Talk page is not the place.
Sources have already been provided that clearly indicate that the purpose of JWs' "primary study-aids" is the goal of converting interested individuals to the religion. Since you have already distinguished the specific publications under consideration as primary study-aids, you have invalidated your premise that other publications have the same specific purpose. (Actually, the purpose of distributing their other literature while preaching, such as magazines, brochures, tracts, etc, is in the hope that individuals become interested in JW beliefs, but the conversion process specifically requires use of their "primary study-aids".)
It also is not clear why you claim that the description of the secondary study aids is "inconsistent". Those (optional) 'study' publications are considered after individuals have gone through the initial indoctrination program using the "primary study-aids", but before or shortly after baptism. There is no inconsistency.
I agree that the name of Section 2.5 is somewhat redundant, and I support distributing its contents to relevant sections.--Jeffro77 (talk) 02:37, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I can generally see when somebody has dug their heels in and can't be reasoned with any further, so I won't waste yours or my time by continuing. Ultimately, beyond just that line, I had planned to revamp the entire Book Section with a well formatted, sortable table using new data such as Publishing Dates, Revisions, Page Numbers and Descriptions, and then check it all for completeness against official sources ( http://imgur.com/NJFV355 ). But if it takes this much for one change to a single line that would't even make a difference if it were gone entirely, then I'd hate to think how headache inducing it would be trying for bigger stuff. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea.
See you in another couple of years then maybe. Thanks for the brief conversation. Teary Oberon (talk) 06:06, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A screenshot of part of an Excel spreadsheet hardly constitutes an 'official' list of publications. But aside from that, no one is preventing you or anyone else from re-formatting the information as a table, which has no relevance to your preferred wording for the section being discussed. Obviously it would be somewhat inappropriate to only improve formatting in exchange for preferred wording of unrelated editorial decisions.--Jeffro77 (talk) 07:38, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you (or any other editors) have valid reasons for the article not to state that the "goal" of JW's "primary study-aids" is for students to "become a dedicated and baptized Witness of Jehovah", then present those reasons instead of making idle threats about withholding unrelated improvements to the article.--Jeffro77 (talk) 08:12, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Audio Dramas vs Sign Language Dramas[edit]

The audio dramas, 14 of them, go back to about 1980. The sign language dramas go back only 10 years and are a different group of dramas. You can compare ASL drama section and with multiple audio languages for proof. The Dramatic Bible readings are only 7 years old and are the same with time. The video section is about 15 years old and are the same with time.Juleon11 (talk) 06:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

List of Watch Tower Society publications#music[edit]

Please stop blocking of editing. audio cassettes version is available in Japan. 1.115.192.198 (talk)

This is the English Wikipedia. Even if the audiocassettes are still available in Japan, they have been discontinued elsewhere.
Our Kingdom Ministry, March 2010: Beginning November 1, 2003, requests for the following music and drama programs will be available on compact disc only and will no longer be filled in audiocassette format: Kingdom Melodies, Volumes 1-9--Jeffro77 (talk) 03:18, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But in the past, audio cassettes version was available all over the world, I think this article includes publications of　the past. 1.115.192.198 (talk)
Previous availability of the audiocassettes is already indicated in the article.--Jeffro77 (talk) 03:50, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kingdom Melodies 1-9 CDs were published in the past. Please see this [1]. Kingdom Melodies CDs 4 - 6 on JW.org　are REVISED EDITION in 2006 - 2008. I can't understand noticing blocking of my editing.1.115.192.198 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have already amended the availability of the CD and MP3 formats.
You were reverted (not blocked) for persistently claiming the audiocassettes are still produced.--Jeffro77 (talk) 04:04, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was noticed of blocking from TRL for CD publishing, not from you. 1.115.192.228 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. That is a standard warning template. It states that if you continue to edit-war, you may be blocked.--Jeffro77 (talk) 07:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that scrolling down in the source, there were 3 'revised' CDs. So for that I apologise. However, the minor change isn't particularly notable. Additionally, the change does not apply to the MP3 versions at all.--Jeffro77 (talk) 08:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to say that Kingdom Melodies CDs were not only Volume 1-6 and 9 in JW org, but Volume 1-9, and why Jw.org doesn't include Volume 7, 8. 1.115.193.109 (talk) 12:11, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not clear why 7 and 8 are not on JW.org. However, the Watch Tower Library Index states that all the volumes from 1 to 9 were released in MP3 format.--Jeffro77 (talk) 12:17, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Promotion[edit]

Providing links to literature available online that is not supported by third party sources is promotional. I am therefore removing links to online publications from this list. Publications that are notable—supported by secondary sources—can have their own Wikipedia articles, and it is suitable for articles about those notable publications to link to online resources.--Jeffro77 (talk) 00:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Primary study aids[edit]

Even the subheading is a little misleading on this one, because these publications are not used exclusively in field ministry activities, these publications are used in personal bible study, congregation bible studies and also in bible studies for family members who do not need "conversion" from other religions. I think a better, more informative way of bringing that to light can be found. In its current form, I think the information is limited in its accuracy and needs improvement. I'm not saying it's not partially correct, but that it falls short of being completely accurate. Perhaps we can work together to improve the accuracy. Anyway, its late and I will look at it more later in the week if I get the opportunity. Willietell (talk) 04:36, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No. The specific purpose of the 'primary study aids' is to make converts (and whatever belief system a person might be converting from is quite irrelevant). The explicitly stated "goal" of the 'study aids' "is to help the student ... qualify as an unbaptized publisher, and become a dedicated and baptized Witness of Jehovah" (Our Kingdom Ministry, April 2001, page 5). Whilst JWs typically study all 'new releases' produced by the Watch Tower Society, the 'study' of these 'primary study aids' by prospective recruits is a requirement for conversion to the JW religion. It is entirely disingenuous for a JW to claim that it is not the primary purpose of these 'study' aids to have 'home Bible studies' with 'interested' people, with the specific aim of recruiting new members.--Jeffro77 (talk) 07:59, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The current primary 'Bible study aid' used by Jehovah's Witnesses is called What Does the Bible Really Teach? Its intended purpose was discussed in The Watchtower, 15 January 2007, page 26. Paragraphs 1 and 2 of the article state:

“THE book is simply excellent. My students love it. I love it. This book makes it possible to start Bible studies with people right at their doorstep.” So said a full-time pioneer minister of Jehovah’s Witnesses concerning the book What Does the Bible Really Teach? Referring to the same publication, an elderly Kingdom proclaimer said: “I have had the privilege of helping many people come to know Jehovah in the 50 years I have been active in the ministry. But I must say, this study publication is outstanding. The refreshing word pictures and illustrations are a delight.” Is that how you feel about the Bible Teach book? This Bible study aid is designed to help you fulfill Jesus’ command: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”—Matthew 28:19, 20. No doubt, Jehovah’s heart rejoices as he sees some 6.6 million of his Witnesses willingly obeying Jesus’ direction to make disciples. (Proverbs 27:11) Jehovah is obviously blessing their efforts. During 2005, for example, the good news was preached in 235 lands and, on average, over 6,061,500 Bible studies were conducted. As a result, many people ‘heard God’s word and accepted it, not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God.’ (1 Thessalonians 2:13) Over the past two years, more than half a million new disciples have conformed their lives to Jehovah’s standards and dedicated themselves to God.

The printed question to be answered based on these paragraphs says: "For what purpose is the book What Does the Bible Really Teach? designed?". The subheadings in the article (and their content) further convey the intended purpose of the 'Bible study aids'.
  • How You Can Start a Bible Study
  • Teaching Methods That Work Best
  • Help Bible Students to Become Teachers
  • “Save Both Yourself and Those Who Listen to You”
Are you still going to maintain that making converts (= "disciples") is not the intended purpose of these 'Bible study aids'?--Jeffro77 (talk) 08:26, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Somehow, I must have missed something, or maybe I was just unclear. I am not arguing that the publications are used to start bible studies with the ultimate goal of baptism in mind for that bible student. What I am saying is that is not their sole purpose and that the publications, as the introduction also shows are still primarily written for Jehovah's Witnesses. Both for the education of the congregation and their families. Obviously, the preaching work is the primary concern of all witnesses in fulfillment of Matthew 28:19 which states: " Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the holy spirit" However, the way the subheading is written, it basically gives the impression these publications are limited to use as books to "convert" people outside the bounds of the congregation and is therefore misleading and needs improvement. I have no problem with the identification of the publications as being designed for the education of people with limited bible knowledge, I'm just saying they fill more than that limited role. Hopefully this clarifies things a little for you.Willietell (talk) 02:58, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Whether the 'study aids' happen to have some secondary purpose is not particularly important. It could be argued that JW literature for youths or for families or about evolution has a 'secondary' purpose, since all JW publications revolve around JW end-times beliefs to varying extents. The primary purpose of the 'study aids' is to make new recruits. Watch Tower Society literature explicitly states that the 'study aids' are designed for that specific purpose, and this is accurately presented in the article, with sources. Feel free to present other sources indicating any additional purpose.
The assertion that the books are for people with "limited bible knowledge" shows your position not to be neutral. In reality, a person might know a great deal about the Bible, but they are expected to accept the JW interpretations in the 'study aids' in order to 'qualify' as JWs. (It is a mundane fact that any person is expected to accept the interpretations of any religious group in order to be accepted as a member of that group; the problem with the flawed POV above is that disagreeing with JW interpretations is not synonymous with having "limited bible knowledge".)--Jeffro77 (talk) 08:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External link removed[edit]

I have removed an external link added recently[2]. The site fails the general criteria for external links, but there are also other problems. The site is not official, has not been updated since 2008, and while the edit summary claimed it is a 'more complete list', it is not particularly thorough. In particular, it does not include the revision of the JW's most recent commentary on the book of Revelation (2006), nor does not it provide any revision of the JW's most recent commentary on Daniel (1999, 2006). Most of the 'extra' information that it does contain relates to changes in cover material and other trivial details.--Jeffro77 (talk) 05:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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