Talk:United States Grand Prix

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Non-Formula One races[edit]

The first line of this article says, "The United States Grand Prix is a Formula One event." I think including so many other US races that have used the term "Grand Prix" obfuscates the topic. I think it should be limited to F1 races, but I'm interested to know how others feel.

Rdikeman 21:25, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

The USGP has been an IRL race and part of various other series when the F1 folks weren't interested - IRL races are called Grands Prix as well. As this is the only USGP page I think it should record all winners of the event - perhaps with a clarification in the first line, "is currently a Formula One event" or whatever. — Dan | Talk 18:54, 10 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Every link to this page is Formula One specific. Please point me to an example anywhere on the web that includes non-F1 races under the topic "United States Grand Prix." Rdikeman 01:22, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
An event entitled "United States Grand Prix" was run at various (non-Indy) courses from 1908 to 1916 as part of the "American Grand Prize" series - see [1] for USGP history and [2] for general AGP information. A non-F1 USGP event appears to have occurred in 1958 though I cannot come up with confirmation from a quick Google search (winner Chuck Daigh in a Scarab car). Apparently the Indy 500 was not clearly separate from the USGP through the 50s.
As for the other F1 grands prix held in the USA (USGP West / Long Beach, Las Vagas GP, USGP East / Detroit, Dallas GP), perhaps they should get their own pages which include the results from F1 and non-F1 races. — Dan | Talk 00:25, 12 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
The American Grand Prize races of the early 20th century deserve their own article. While the Indianapolis 500 counted in the Formula One World Championship from 1950-1960, it was not a "Formula One" event since the cars did not meet the "formula." Very few F1 drivers ever participated, and its inclusion was simply a lame attempt to justify the title "World Championship." The 1959 race at Sebring was the first World Championship event held in the United States with Formula One cars and drivers, and it is typically listed as the first running of the United States Grand Prix, as the term is usually understood and used today.
Certainly, I think it would be great to have articles about the great American road racing venues, including Sebring, Long Beach, Detroit, etc. and all the different types of events that have been held there. I just think the term "United States Grand Prix," while used in other ways (including motorcycle races and horse jumping), is most commonly understood to refer to a Formula One event that has been held at several different locations as part of the World Championship. Rdikeman 01:42, May 13, 2004 (UTC)

I have returned the results from all the United States Grands Prix to the table of winners. This does not include the USGP East/West or Las Vegas GP, which now have their own pages, United States Grand Prix East, United States Grand Prix West, and Las Vegas Grand Prix. The single Dallas F1 race was officially titled USGP, so I added it to the USGP results chart.

This means that there are non-F1 results there as well. I maintain that they belong on the USGP page since they were, in fact, United States Grands Prix. I have changed the opening sentence to indicate that it is not just an F1 race. Since USGP refers most commonly to the car race, the motorcycle and horse jumping events mentioned above should be disambig'ed accordingly if anyone ever creates articles on them. I hope this is all satisfactory. — Dan | Talk 05:45, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why are the 1976-1980 races not listed on the page. It says it was known as US GP East but they're not listed on that page either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swedol (talk • contribs) 18:54, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Race Reports[edit]

Links to a "report" on each individual running of the USGP have been added to the article, and I have created one for the 2003 event, but I need a bit of a nudge from the "community" to feel comfortable about creating 40+ more. I have reports that I wrote for other sites and can easily adapt them to appear here, but is this material appropriate for an encyclopedia? Please take a look at the 2003 article and let me know what you think about having a similar one for each USGP event. Thanks, Rdikeman 14:24, May 27, 2004 (UTC)


2005 race + opinion[edit]

"Many doubt that a United States Grand Prix will be held in Indianapolis again"

The race isn't over yet, and though it's a fiasco, isn't that coming to a conclusion too soon? --Madchester 19:02, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

Why is MS given a Maris-like * ? He, and his team, followed the rules. Nothing is tainted about his victory. --SamC 02:22, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hello, I added the *. What do you mean nothing was tainted about the victory? The race was run in substantally different cirumstances than a normal F1 race, and that made it significantly easier for MS to win. The fact that he only beat five other drivers, one of which was his teammate, is signifcant enough to warrant mention. --160.102.72.223 12:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. A complete fiasco. And I think I it will be unlikely that we ever see a F1 race at Indy again but this is far from fact yet.

I changed the * to a † from the race year - it wasn't MSC that was significant as the winner, but the race. NickF 2 July 2005 00:18 (UTC)
I think it's up to Ecclestone on whether arrogance and conceit keeps F1 from still having a chance to succeed at Indianapolis, and hence the rest of America. --Chr.K.

Fastest Lap[edit]

According to the official F1 website, the fastest lap was set by Barrichello and is 1'10.399

North American Grand Prix[edit]

How about having a North American Grand Prix? Then it can be held in various tracks in the USA and Canada. 67.188.172.165 03:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is this Tony George? Normand Legault? Great idea! You bring the hot dogs and soda; I'll get some T-shirts made! =8-P
Rdikeman 12:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

US Grand Prix Track designer[edit]

Obviously this race is done on the well known track at Indy. But other than the stretch on the one part, who designed the rest? Would be good information to have on this site.

125.63.87.131 21:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)Blake Merriam[reply]

US F1 GP at Watkins Glen[edit]

The text about the US GP at Watkins Glen says the event was held there 1961 through 1980. On the other hand, the table of US GP events says the event was not held 1976-1980. I am almost certain the event was held through 1980 at Watkins Glen. Someone needs to fix this. I do not know how to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.13.91 (talk) 21:40, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

US GP, USGP East, Dallas GP and Detroit GP[edit]

According to the historical results on the official F1.com page, it says, that GP in Watkins Glen in years 1976-1980 were named United States Grand Prix East. And Dallas GP and Detroit GP aren't official names of those Grand Prix's. I made a small table of what they were according to the F1.com site:

Year USGP USGPE USGPW Other
1975 Watkins Glen Not held Not held Not held
1976 Not Held Watkins Glen Long Beach Not Held
1977 Not Held Watkins Glen Long Beach Not Held
1978 Not Held Watkins Glen Long Beach Not Held
1979 Not Held Watkins Glen Long Beach Not Held
1980 Not Held Watkins Glen Long Beach Not Held
1981 Not Held Not Held Long Beach Las Vegas
1982 Not Held Detroit Long Beach Las Vegas
1983 Detroit Not Held Long Beach Las Vegas
1984 Dallas Detroit Not Held Not Held
1985 Not Held Detroit Not Held Not Held
1986 Not Held Detroit Not Held Not Held
1987 Detroit Not Held Not Held Not Held
1988 Detroit Not Held Not Held Not Held
1989 Phoenix Not Held Not Held Not Held

I know that looks confusing but that just is how they are in the official site. --Canukki33 (talk) 14:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This topic has previously been discussed by the Formula One WikiProject here and here and the current article names reflect the project consensus. DH85868993 (talk) 15:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I didn't know it was already discussed. --Canukki33 (talk) 15:34, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1984 CART race at the Meadowlands[edit]

The "Other Grands Prix in the United States" section contains the following statement:

...CART started their own race at the Meadowlands, and titled it the "United States Grand Prix".

The headline of the the supplied reference refers to the race as the "U. S. Grand Prix", but the body of the reference refers to the race as the "U. S. Grand Prix at the Meadowlands". However, Meadowlands Grand Prix#Race winners indicates that the race was called the "Meadowlands Grand Prix". So what was the race actually called? Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 00:53, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources are mixed. Most contemporary newspaper sources used U.S. Grand Prix at the Meadowlands, but Champ Car Stats, Ultimate Racing History, and CART's 1985 media guide all say just Meadowlands Grand Prix. For 1985, news sources and the media guide use U.S. Grand Prix at the Meadowlands, but CCS and URC have Meadowlands United States Grand Prix. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 00:41, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 01:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If the 1984 was was title U.S. Grand Prix or United States Grand Prix, it should be included, then linked outwards to the Meadowlands race article. Most National Grands Prix have non-F1 races in their histories. Canada, Australia, Singapore, Japan, South Africa, Malaysia, all the European races, even Brazil. It shouldn't be ignored. Mexico might need similar treatment with the Champ car races. --203.161.138.71 (talk) 03:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. That's why I'm trying to work out what the race was actually called. DH85868993 (talk) 06:02, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed changes[edit]

Although there are several racing bodies using the term "Grand Prix", this topic should be only for - and wholly include - all Formula One races in The U.S.A.

This should include ALL results from the years of East and West F1 races, but not of any other classes of Formulas (Indy, IRL, IMSA,...), even if they are termed "Grand Prix" (which really comes down to a marketing term, rather than a determination of racing class).

Even if you disagree with F1 being the "pinnacle" of motor racing, the term "Grand Prix" was coined for just that determination, as the pinnacle of racing, even long before F1 was organized.

I was going to update this page to include all F1 info (including the east/west years), BUT don't have much time - especially if there is not a consensus that would allow the info to remain.

Anyone may contact me with your input (<email address redacted>). I also don't want to step on toes, or get in an "editing match" over added information.

It would be great if anyone with more time could help. -TA

Thanks for discussing your proposal on the talk page before just going ahead and making the changes. I would oppose restricting this article to F1 events only, on the basis that it would then be inconsistent with the other "<Country> Grand Prix" articles, which cover the entire history of the race, including non-F1 events (see Australian Grand Prix, German Grand Prix as examples). I would also oppose including the US GP West information in this page; the current arrangement of articles is the result of numerous prior discussions, e.g. here and here. The "Other Grands Prix in the United States (1976-1988)" section of the article describes the rather bewildering array of "Grand Prix" races held in the USA during that period, with links to United States Grand Prix West, etc. DH85868993 (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think you will find very few would agree with this viewpoint. In fact most would find it factually incorrect. Formula One and Grand prix are not interchangeable terms. Some Grands Prix pre-date the Formula One world championship by over 30 years, The French by about 50 years. These races are called United States Grand Prix or Australian Grand Prix or Italian Grand Prix, not Belgian Formula One Only Grand Prix. Wikipedia should be education in nature, not restrictive. --Falcadore (talk) 07:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

82-88 not held?[edit]

I don't understand why it is said that from 82 to 88 the US Grand Prix was not held. Check: 1 and 2. Thanks. MarcosPassos (talk) 07:28, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Winners tables in this article are lists of winners of the event called the "United States Grand Prix". From 1982 to 1988 there was no event called the "United States Grand Prix". As explained in the "Other Grands Prix in the United States (1976–1988)" section, there were other Grand Prix races held in the United States during that period (including the Detroit Grand Prix), but there was no race explicitly called the "United States Grand Prix". DH85868993 (talk) 08:05, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's the difference between the United States Grand Prix and a grand prix in the United States. The two are not the same. --Falcadore (talk) 00:03, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Confused[edit]

I noticed that the official name of the 1980 United States Grand Prix is the XXIII Toyota United States Grand Prix and the official name of the 1989 United States Grand Prix is the XXVI Iceberg United States Grand Prix. What happened to XXIV and XXV? TheEarth1974 (talk) 18:06, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

From looking at a few of the "YYYY United States Grand Prix" articles, as far as I can see the "roman numeral names" are all unsourced and possibly original research. And in some cases they contradict they article text, e.g. the lead for 1990 United States Grand Prix says "It was the 32nd United States Grand Prix since the American Grand Prize was first held in 1908, and the 25th under Formula One regulations since the first United States Grand Prix was held at Sebring, Florida in 1959." - so why does the infobox say XXVII (27th)? I'd recommend removing the "roman numeral names" from the US GP race articles from at least 1989 onwards. DH85868993 (talk) 00:14, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. It's possible that the two Caesars Palace Grands Prix held in 1981 and 1982 were being counted as XXIV and XXV. But it's also possible that whoever entered the "official name" for the 1989 race just mistyped "XXIV" as "XXVI". I still think the best solution is to just remove the "roman numeral names" from at least 1989 onwards, unless we have evidence that these were indeed the "official names". DH85868993 (talk) 01:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Missing US F1 Races on File:US Grand Prix locations.png[edit]

I am needing help with someone on editing [File:US Grand Prix locations.png] to add the missing Indy 500 F1 races which were part of the Championship from 1950-1960 tothe map to go along with the USGP Races already shown on that map. Any help would be appreciated as I don't have a good image editor to fix this. Sawblade5 (talk to me | my wiki life) 01:55, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sawblade5: I'd argue that the 1950-1960 Indy 500 races shouldn't be added to that map as they weren't run to the prevailing "Grand Prix" rules, which all the races currently on the map (including the 1908-1916 and 1936-1937 races) were. DH85868993 (talk) 02:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But the map also includes other pre-1950 non Grand Prix races like the Vanderbilt Cup. I’d rather remove that map entirely. This article deals with the United States Grand Prix and its predecessor, the American Grand Prize. Events like the Detroit Grand Prix or Miami Grand Prix are of little interest. The table to which this map is appended does not list these other events at all.Tvx1 02:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of the Vanderbilt Cup, the map only shows the races which were run to Grand Prix regulations (1936-37); it doesn't show the ones which weren't run to Grand Prix regulations (1904-1916, 1960 onwards). But having said that, I'd also be happy for the map to be removed from the article, or to only show the locations of the American Grand Prize/United States Grand Prix races. DH85868993 (talk) 02:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support removing the map. If it is kept, it should have (Miami Grand Prix) added below the Hard Rock Stadium label in line with the other events which were/are not called "United States Grand Prix". Note further that the Vanderbilt Cups of 1936 and 1937 were not held to the prevailing Grand Prix regulations but to local regulations which also permitted the European cars. A7V2 (talk) 06:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@A7V2: My statements regarding the 1936-37 Vanderbilt Cups were based on the text in this article "The Vanderbilt Cup was revived in 1936 and 1937 and run to Grand Prix regulations", but looking at 1936 Vanderbilt Cup, I can see that statement is incorrect and that you are correct. Thanks for the clarification. DH85868993 (talk) 09:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1936 Vanderbilt Cup does state that it was a Grand Prix. So that hints it was, though it was part of the AAA’s championship car series. I’m not sure how Grand Prix regulations were governed globally back then. Was there even an international governing body. Note that Grand Prix’s are exclusive to the top class series of open-wheel racing sanctioneb by what we now know as the FIA. To this day American open wheel racing’s premier series, IndyCar hosts z
a couple of Grands Prix each season. Also Vanderbilt Cup doesn’t really give a clue as to which rules the races were held under. Tvx1 20:18, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's really an academic question of whether or not the 1936 and 1937 Vanderbilt Cups were Grand Prix or not. Technically they were held to AAA regulations (I highly doubt many of the American cars of that time would have been under 750kg) but at that time (pre-1938) the main criteria would be whether or not any of the top Grand Prix cars showed up, which for those races they did. By the same token, some of the early Vanderbilt Cups were held to identical regulations as the Grand Prix (or as the Gordon Bennett), and indeed some of the American GPs were not (inevitable in the years without a (French) Grand Prix), but again whether or not they go on lists made by sources is normally based on the quality of the entries rather than the specific regulations used which often changed completely year to year. But really all of this isn't overly relevant since as you rightly pointed out above, this article is about a specific race (well arguably two but always grouped together), not the Vanderbilt Cup, Miami Grand Prix, etc. A7V2 (talk) 23:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or with a different set of changes, reducing it to only include the races covered in the results section, it could possibly reinstated were it already was placed. On another note, was the American Grand Prize really the same event as parts of this article clzim? The detailed history section really tells it was merely a predecessor, yet seperate event.Tvx1 05:21, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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