Talk:Melbourne High School

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Comment[edit]

Nice article, Celendin. It's certainly grown since the first time I looked at it. :) --Randolph 03:53, 22 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, are you an Old Boy ? --Celendin 12:48, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a MHSOB category should be created lolSmorter 04:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User Box for MHS[edit]

I have created a user box for all the melbourne high students and supportors to put on their wiki home page, to add it to your home page simply cut the following text: {{User Melbourne High School}}. If you have done it correctly it should look like this.

This user attends or graduated from Melbourne High School, Australia.

This user box was created by Ajindustries, a current student. Ajindustries 08:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

And here is a new version at Template:User Melbourne High School (Victoria)
This user attends or attended Melbourne High School.

To put this on a user page, type {{User Melbourne High School (Victoria)}}

Any comments? Patche99z 13:56, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't use fair use images in user boxes. Although I like the color. --Hamster2.0 18:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that is a surprise, since the image is used on the main page. Could you give me the reference please? Patche99z 10:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have found the following reference: Wikipedia:Logos, which says "Common sense says that a logo displayed prominently on the logo owner's own website should be OK to use" but then warns about resizing. By and large, I think this use is fair, because the school does use the logo prominently and less prominently, but the copyright issue is so complex that I think I will have a go at drawing another unicorn, specially for the userbox. Any other comments are welcome. By the way, you can check the colour specs if you look at the template page noted above. And my main reason for creating the userbox is that I did not think the wording in the first version is quite what I want to say. Patche99z 15:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the school's logo, although I do think its use would be fair. The replacement logo immediately appeared above. Patche99z 15:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia[edit]

I think that the part about Lindsay Fox making a famous deal with the school to land his helicopter on the school oval is a silly joke that one of the older students may have put in as a bit of fun. If anyone know the real reason for why his helicopter does land on the oval, please include it. For now I'll just remove the bit about the deal. EDIT: Found the answer on Lindsay Fox's wiki page. Shaliron 09:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • What is absolutely ridiculous about this article is that it makes the "seven pillars" rubbish sound like some sort of anti-hero secret society. As a current student I can say that all it is is some potheads that frequent the Art department tagging up the school. They are pretentious and false, and do not seek to "emphasise the importance of friendship and respect across all of the schools 4 year levels" in the slightest. I think that this should be deleted - as it is, essentially, completely false. The school has enough underserved accolades without people thinking it has its own secret society, much less if the society is merely a group of oxygen thieves intent upon spewing their "non-conformist" filth all over the already broken school.

- It is alright child, Inkblood will get you.

Hey, the tunnel leading to the yarra under the school is untrue, however there is a large cavity under the school that stretches to under the principal's offfice. How do I know? I asked the principal a couple of weeks ago before an assembly. Overall a very comprehensive article, and definately an accomplishment. - Fothers

The underschool area is owned by the Army Cadets, and used as their Q-Store. The validity of the tunnel is very possible, although it would have been Naval commanders escaping, because we were relocated to Camberwell High. - JC

The tunnels do exist. I spent many days wagging and exploring the tunnels with 4 or 5 others most lunch times. When I was there, Lindsay Fox was a regular guest and would speak at assembley - he was a great patron and benefactor and I would not be suprised if he did have permission to land on the oval. - BC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.154.58 (talk) 00:20, 11 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Famous alumni[edit]

  • "Bluey" Truscott - WWII fighter ace and sometime Melbourne goal sneak

I know he existed, but I question the credibility of the comments. For now, he has been removed. For future entries, please include source. --coblin 09:26, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

He is a WWII fighter pilot (he fought for Britain). Source is the Bluey Truscott scholarship pamphlet. Go find one for yourself =P -Readded him Ledward 02:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Russel Crowe went to Sydney Boy's High School, by the way. --coblin 09:27, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
What does that have to do with this article? Zhanster 00:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I meant "sometime Melbourne goal sneak"--coblin 05:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

protect?[edit]

This article seems to be getting a lot of vandalism recently. Not surprising—boys will be boys, even if they're boys that are meant to be smarter than that—but perhaps it would be a good idea to protect it... —Felix the Cassowary (ɑe hɪː jɐ) 12:01, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree.--coblin 05:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No, only Asians apply to get in and we all know they can't vandalise things. --Anonymous.

Inclusion of Julian Knight[edit]

Cassowary, you have misdefined "Famous" and confused it with "Infamous". In lists of alumni for schools they generally list people who have contributed to the community in a positive way. Maybe you should go and create an "Infamous Past Students" section if you really want to put Julian Knight in.

-removed Julian Knight (again)

Ledward 02:15, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Infamous people are still famous. (You yourself said he was ‘famous for the wrong reason’.) Julian Knight is a well-known MHS Old Boy who (at least while I was at MHS) was certainly spoken of often enough. His name warrants inclusion in the list as much as anyone else's. A section on 'infamous past students' separate from 'past students who are notable in the community for having done good things' would be stupid. Not including him is also not NPOV. (Also, its entirely debatable whether footballers have ‘contributed to the community in a positive way’—I vote we delete them, too!)
—Felix the Cassowary (ɑe hɪː jɐ) 04:08, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the inclusion of Julian Knight. He was famous. There is no need to remove infamous people. Wikipedia is neutral. It gives facts. It does not stand to bolster the image of MHS. --coblin 07:25, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed Knight has been removed from the article, and the section renamed to Distinguished Old Boys. As he's far from 'distinguished', does anyone have any objection to the renaming of this section to Notable alumni? -- Longhair 06:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Go for it Longhair! No objections here. Grumpyyoungman01 06:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fluff[edit]

This article could do with a bit of a haircut. "World class", "former glory", etc. - brenneman(t)(c) 01:07, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

More to the point, this is the most Bull-shitty article that i have ever read in Wikipedia, or elsewhere for that matter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.83.201 (talk) 09:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply] 

      damn straight  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.203.251 (talk) 06:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Famous alumni guidelines[edit]

Not trying to be authoritarian, but the alumni are getting out of hand.

There are alot of significant figures that rise from MHS, we can either not have this topic, or we can. If we do, we need the years they started/graduated (or left, if they didn't graduate). Also need sources please. --coblin 05:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Alumni queries[edit]

"*Chris Wardlaw - Australian Athletic coach for the Sydney Olympics, currently head of Hong Kong education" What is 'Honk Kong education'? and why is it notable?

Leadership struggles[edit]

The School awards, badges and rank section describes the Army and Air Force cadet ranking system before the school leadership system, and in greater detail. The cadets are one of many involvement activities, and do not warrant such a disproportionately large description in this section. This may give readers the impression that the cadets play a primary role in school leadership. Perhaps this could be trimmed down (with a link to the Australian Cadet Corps website for those who wish to know more), or the other non-cadet leadership roles increased in detail. For example, there is no mention of the music captain at all. Any thoughts? Rocket Surgeon 13:51, 13 April 2006 (AEST)

Agreed. Most of the Cadet ranks in the school are not as relavent to the school as compared to the actual leaders, i.e. Music Captain. Yes the rankings are of some importance but outside the walls of the actual members of cadets, they are not needed in so much detail to the general school community and this article.--Shaliron 11:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Relatively easy to fix. Just add a "Music/Co-Curricula programs" section. Ledward 04:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The AAC/AAFC are probably the largest and most influential of the groups at the School.

Are you guys kidding? A minority at the school wear badges...but cadets wear uniforms once a week. Plus, the military have had a great link to this school...more than you think...

Names of student leadership[edit]

We should revert/remove all names of current students which somehow make their way into the article. They are irrelevant to the actual history of the school, and imho are just plugs for themselves.

Ledward 05:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concur. Natronomonas 10:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cock House[edit]

While the target of an awful lot of "hehe, giggle giggle it's funny" editing, I don't think we need to remove all references to it. I was under the impression the houses competed for the Cock House trophy, not Cockhouse... but my memory might be off. Anyone current/more knowledgeable able to help out? Natronomonas 10:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Protect[edit]

How about edit protecting the article. There's vandalism on it everyday. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Demonblade (talk • contribs) 20:57, 22 August 2006.

Not a lot of vandalism here - only one every few days over the past weeks which is not remarkable for a school article. Best to have it kept on watchlists and revert to keep the mess out - Peripitus (Talk) 12:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV Chorale & PIG[edit]

These two sections are still ridiculous in the sense that they endlessly self-plug.

I looked at it for about 15 minutes today and I have no idea how to fix it without removing the entire section completely; so I just tagged them. Someone do something!

Ledward 05:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC) I'll try to do my best.[reply]

But the sections will be cut down significantly.--Shaliron 08:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We should remove those sections entirely and replace them with summaries of the Music Programme (which really deserves a section of its own) and the Involvement Programme. Excalibur2211 11:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough then. If these involvements get a section, than so do all the others, so it'll be better if there's just a general overview on all of them.--Shaliron 03:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just added a section on the Music Programme, a quick 15 minute type up job. Probably has a lot of typos in it...can someone check and add for me? Thanks. Excalibur2211 04:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Listing Cadet ranks[edit]

Do, don't? There's stuff in there I think is relevant to Melbourne High specifically, especially the band note (not many other units have bands therefore the main AAC article will probably not include it, and relevance requires that all the ranks be listed). How would we cull this, if we do, as not to lose information? Excalibur2211 11:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sporting Program[edit]

I was suprised that the article makes little mention of the sports program at MHS (besides from a brief mention of the Cockhouse comp), it being one of the key extra-curricular activities at the school. Someone should add a separate section similar to the one's on cadets and music; I would add one myself but I'm busy with study and unfortunately don't have the time. 10:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Holidays is just around the corner Excalibur2211 13:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Major deviation[edit]

Seems like people have gone again for a major advertising fest with the PIG again.

Reverted back to Sharilon's version. Comparing that one and the current one, I think that one is better. There are things that have been added, but I'm lazy. Excalibur2211 13:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involement Groups[edit]

whoever has changed the involvement groups has no idea about which groups are widely held at melbourne high. if you read the groups as they are shown on the page at the moment you would be completely misguided as to the actual structure of them inside school. i speak as a current student. so when i change it can the persiphus guy or whatever stop changing it back to his current misguided one? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.176.160.248 (talk) 06:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Or you could just do it. I am a current student as well.Internaldesign 00:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

School Song[edit]

Should'nt the section of the school song be made into another article (e.g. Honour The Work (School Song) or Melbourne High School Song, etc.) and removed from here (just have a link instead) Adammw 13:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

this article seems very biased towards extra-curricular activities and has hardly any content about normal subjects (e.g. english, maths, other menial and boring subjects)... Adammw 08:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)![reply]

Added subjects. I'd add more, but I'm far too busy and as VCE student I only know about my subjects, and none about what VELS has done to the curriculum Year 10 and below. The school song should stay for now.Internaldesign 00:55, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bold edits[edit]

Greetings, I have completed a set of Bold Edits to significantly cut down on the wordiness and reduce the overall clutter. Too much minor or insignificant information is included in the article. This article can be improved with better quality and choice of words, instead of more information or details. Tiggerjay 15:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

School Song[edit]

Honour The Work

School song for Melbourne High School (Victoria). Words by: A.G. Daws; Music by: Charles Breen


First Verse

Blithesome our hearts are and free is our fancy, Swift fly the hours in work and in play, Fain would we linger, but youth turns to manhood, School days are passing, and we must away.


Chorus:

Honour the work, let our motto remind us, When courage weakens and stern grows the fight, Strong, like its pillars, the school stands behind us, Standing for duty, and standing for right.


Second Verse

Lo! Steering westward through life's stormy surges, Those who once laboured and played here are gone; Before them a vision, a lamp lit by learning, A shrine to be guarded and fame to be won. Chorus

Third Verse

Nothing we care for the small time remaining, Shallow the stream our life flows along, Slow though we progress with old muscles straining, We shall prevail, for our spirit is strong. Chorus

Fourth Verse

Red blood of youth calls from far-distant Flanders, Call o'er the sea from Gallipoli shore; Loud rings the voice of the deathless departed: "Honour the work that we honoured of yore." Chorus

It's here if you wish to add it to the page. The article for the song itself was deleted.JodyB talk 16:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the vocal line: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14364708/Honour%20the%20work%20-%20Vocal.pdf Here's the vocal line for those who want it Comkidwizzer3 (talk) 13:05, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Academics[edit]

This section should be expanded by information regrading the quality and type of academics provided by MHS. What is not needed is an expanded list of courses available. Thanks. Tiggerjay 16:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There does not need to be a list of academics, as all high schools are very similar. If there is any courses that are unique, or are deemed "notable," then those should be included. --Dan LeveilleTALK 05:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Melbourne High School disambiguation[edit]

Hi, considering the other Melbourne High School(s) around the world are dead links (execpt for the one that isn't even called melbourne high school) shouldn't the "Melbourne High School" article redirect to here automaticlly? Adammw 09:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree and done sahanx 09:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lead Image[edit]

Somebody quickly write a rationale for the lead image before it gets deleted. It could also use a conversion to SVG. vlad§inger tlk 01:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Nevermind, I did it. vlad§inger tlk 01:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, taking about SVG, i tried to make one... it's very dodgy, so if someone could fix it, it probally could be used.... it was based on File:Mhs2222.jpg (which at least is better than the current one) Adammw 17:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I converted the current image to SVG. Anything else need to be done? sahanx 06:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sydney exchanges[edit]

There seems to be a bunch of edits changing Sydney Boys High School to North Sydney Boys High School and vice versa.

According to the school website: http://www.mhs.vic.edu.au/home/ym/impdate.htm

School Exchanges North Sydney Boys' High School Sunday 19 - Tuesday 23 March (Sydney)

So there you go. Wongm (talk) 09:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second placing[edit]

I note a comment which implies a link between an increase in the intake of students and a drop in median ENTER one year later.

Shouldn't there be a four-year lag between intake and median ENTER? Doesn't seem to me that intake can be explanatory of VCE performance after only one year, given it's a Y9-12 school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.128.218.206 (talk) 03:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

House competitions[edit]

MHS House competitions should have its own article, lot more info could be added that way about history, events etc.

Yeah give house comps their own article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.184.108 (talk) 05:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV[edit]

This article reads very much so as an advertisment for the school, and sounds a lot like advertising, rather than being encyclopedic 220.253.205.110 (talk) 05:29, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please specify areas that need fixing. Sfdasfr (talk) 06:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment of 25 January 2010[edit]

A request has been made to assess this article against the criteria of "B" class (WP:BCLASS) Please understand that I am applying one person's opinion, and editors are well within their rights to ask for a different editor to assess the article, or to discuss issues brought up with me. At this time, I am recommending that the article remain at "C". It is a very well written article, but I truly believe that it needs to better meet the verifiability policy before it can move on:

1. The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.
☒N I feel that there needs to be substantially more referencing, particularly inline referencing, before this article can be bumped up to a "B". The alumni list (I admit, a separate article) needs a great deal of referencing, as this may deal with biographies of living persons issues.
2. The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.
checkY If there was to be any critique here, I would say there may be some over coverage (for example, the current house winners in competitions seems more to be inter-house bragging than encyclopedic material). The academic data is critical, but might be better in a collapsable table. The comparison table is immense and really breaks up the article. I am not sure this is necessary, as it comes off as unnecessary bragging about the school. If the consensus is that it should stay, then it should be placed in a smaller table (if possible) or a collapsable table.
3. The article has a defined structure.
checkY The article is very well structured. My only opinion (and I emphasize that it is an opinion) is that I would put the history as the first section after the leadin. For some reason in my head, I would want to start with the past, and work up to more current events. I emphasize that this is an opinion. The guide to structuring school articles otherwise seems to be followed.
4. The article is reasonably well-written.
checkY The article appears to be clear of non-standard English, and is written with an eloquent and clear diction. The text appears to be written from a neutral point of view.
5. The article contains supporting materials where appropriate.
checkY The only point to recommend here (aside from some adjustments to the data tables) are that some of the larger pictures may need to be reduced in size. The picture of the school and Sir John Eccles seem out of proportion to the other images ... the picture of Sir John also seems to be interfering with the text (at least in my browser). I also know that this may be difficult, but according to the manual of style regarding images, text should not be sandwiched between two images ... this occurs between the images of the cricket team and the football uniform. It may be OK to leave this alone, but I at least wanted to notify you.

I wish all editors on this article truly the best in their continuing work. The school appears to be a special place and a grand institution. LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Assessment of 15 February 2010[edit]

Per the request of an editor, I am revisiting this article for further advice.

  1. This article has seen significant improvement in referencing. Before, referencing was virtually non-existent. As of today, a majority of the article is referenced.
  2. There are three tables here regarding academic ranking of the school. I am concerned that the appearance of these tables could be interpreted as being in violation of WP:PRESTIGE. I am not making this as an accusation, but rather pointing out how this might be interpreted. I would suggest finding a way to note this in the article, and then ref/citing this with reliable sources.
  3. I am also concerned that a significant percentage of the referencing comes from the school itself. Certainly, there are some things that can be reliably referenced from a school website (the name of the principal, the number of faculty, basic information). However there are some claims being made (Strictly as an example: Students who live in the nearby area are not treated any differently from those from outer suburbs or regional areas. Similarly, there is no extra consideration for students who have previously had family in the school). I am not sure that the school's website would count as a reliable source for information like this, true as it might be.
  4. I would recommend shrinking that beautiful picture of the school a bit.
  5. WP:WPSCH/AG#WNTI notes that there should not be any detailed discussion of a school uniform, unless there is significant coverage in outside reliable sources. This does not seem to be the case with the section on the uniform, as written. Unless there is such coverage, this section might need to be trimmed down.

Assessing this article against the "B" class criteria, I find the following:

☒N The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.
While this has vastly improved, I am concerned about too much of the sourcing particularly in the academic results section, not being referenced from outside the school.
checkY The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.
checkY The article has a defined structure.
checkY The article is reasonably well-written.
☒N The article contains supporting materials where appropriate.
I think that the tables come across as violating the spirit of WP:PRESTIGE. I think there is a way to present this information that gives the idea that the school has a strong academic background, perhaps even the strongest in its region, without holding up other school for direct comparison.
checkY The article presents its content in an appropriately accessible way.

I think the article is very close to a "B" level article. I will also recommend that the article undergo peer review (its last peer review was in 2005, and I can only imagine all of the changes it has undergone since then. As the article approaches the process of becoming a "GA", the assessments get progressively more picky. I also urge further expansion as the article approaches looking to GA status. Best of luck to all editors. LonelyBeacon (talk) 21:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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