Talk:Coimbra

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POV check[edit]

this guy elapsed doesnt know the basics of wikipedia and constantly puts is oppinion on wikipedia articles. There should be an avaliation on his additions to wikipedia as he adds biased info and often very unreliable info to wikipedia. Now he says that a much smaller students union of coimbra is the biggest in Portugal. -Pedro 4 July 2005 15:14 (UTC) More, he added pictures to wikipedia without licence and some are very possibly copyrighted. Where are the admins? --Pedro 4 July 2005 15:17 (UTC)

The claim of the AAc being the biggest student association its not new and its quite known. It is sustained as its made by a unique entity, rather than the oporto students union made by a group of faculties! So the claim its true!

The following assertions should also be revised: "With a dense urban grid the city of Coimbra is famous for its monuments, churches, libraries, numerous parks, gardens, nightlife, shopping facilities".


  • "Libraries" - It is famous for the "Joanina" library. The "Central" library is hardly known, nationally, and the Municipal library is just your regular local library.

Saying that the Central Library is not know nationally its a poor mistake! Its the second one in numbers in Portugal. Several ones have incredible collections like the ones of several science departments and law studies!

  • "Numerous parks" - Are actually two. Which are contiguous/continuous and, thus, rather count as one.

Actually more. Vale de Canas, Choupal, Manuel Braga, Botânico and Sereia/ Santa Cruz can ben recognized as parks. Are they just 2? Seems more to me! And they are not contiguos! Do you even know Coimbra??

  • "Numerous gardens" - Also just two.

Well, gardens.. 2? Hmm... Casa do Sal, Penedo da Saudade, Parque Verde, Choupalinho... Do you want the complete list? I can show you a book of more than 20 green spaces in the city!

  • "Nightlife" - While known to the local inhabitants, Coimbra is hardly famous for it; in fact, locals go out of their way to party elsewhere (eg, in Figueira da Foz).

Coimbra nightlife its quite renowned and not only by its students parties, and although you say that people go elsewhere, thats hardly a fact! In fact, several people from the sourrondigs come to Coimbra to party and Figueira only works to the Summer months, more in August.

  • "Shopping Facilities" - One mall, recent. One mall about to open. Until last year, people had to go to Aveiro, Porto or Lisbon to even see a mall. Coimbra is definitely not famous for its shopping.

Not one, several ones. As for big shopping malls you can find two, the forum and dolce vita. As an habitant of Coimbra I went to Aveiro just to find brands that wasn't then in Coimbra, but thats not like nowadays.

MIP 17:54, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MIP probably does not know Coimbra and is wrong in some aspects: 1. Libraries - "Joanina" is a master piece and arguably the most beautiful library in Portugal. The University departments have valuable libraries that are regularly visited by scholars from all the country. The University's Central Library and Arquive is huge and one of the few libraries in Portugal that receive a copy of all the books edited in the country, also has documents of high historical value.

2. Gardens and Parks - Coimbra has some of the more important gardens in Portugal: Parque Manuel de Braga/Parque verde do Mondego, that will be one of the biggests urban parks in Portugal when finished; Choupal - urban forest near the river; Vale de Canas; Jardim da Sereia - an historical master piece; Botanical Garden - the most impressive botanical garden in Portugal; several other small ones.

3. Nightlife - It is a very lively nightlife because of the students with Latada Queima das fitas being two of the biggest parties in Portugal. People go to Figueira when they are on Holidays there.

4. Shopping - Coimbra is, no doubt, a terciary city. The old traditional shopping area is only smaller than Lisboa and Porto ones. Coimbra also has 3 big shopping malls, including the two biggests of Central Portugal (Aveiro, Viseu, Guarda, Coimbra, Castelo Branco, Leiria, Santarem) Aquilino, 22/7/2006

Party[edit]

The biggest student party in Portugal is in Porto. How can Coimbra be in Europe? -Pedro 01:57, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)


I suppose the issue here is what is meant by "union of university students" in the text. The "Associação Académica de Coimbra" is an association with aproximately 30 000 members (since, by default, every student is a member).

In Porto - at least according to the University of Porto's website - there is no pan-association of students; there are small thematic associations by Faculdade, which then interact under the banner of a Federation of Associations ("Federação Académica do Porto").

The point of contention seems to be whether a Federation of Associations can be compared to a pure Association. People from Porto will say it can, people from Coimbra will say it can't. In the end, the only fact is that both are "big", and both are "important". -- MIP 18:20, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the word "party" means "festival" in that context. I am not able do discuss student festivals dimensions, I just think that editors should refrain from making that kind of considerations, mainly, due to lack of references. Afonso Silva 18:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Especially seeing as the concept itself is subjective. While some would interpret the quantification of the "size" of the "party" as reflecting on the size of the organizing body (as I did), others will take it to refer to the number of attendees, or the ammount of money spent, or the number of days it lasts, or even the (subjective) importance of participating bands or musical acts.
Actually, giving it some more thought, I suppose the statement might be refering to the parade itself, and not to the festival in general. In which case, it might actually be simple to quantify (by looking into the average number of floaters paraded each year) and, thus, to clarify the meaning of "biggest party". -- MIP 18:55, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For those that do not know, the activities of Queima das Fitas begins almost a month before the actual parade/music nights, with many sports tournaments, cultural activities,etc. http://2007.queimadasfitas.org/cultura.html http://2007.queimadasfitas.org/desporto.html to name a few, many more are organized locally by AAC's mini-unions in each course/faculty -- svicente 13:16, 4th May 2007 (UTC)

Seventh oldest university in Europe?[edit]

Can someone provide some evidence the claim that the University of Coimbra is the seventh oldest in Europe.

The article currently states:

The university founded in 1290 is the seventh oldest in Europe...

and then lists

  1. University of Bologna
  2. University of Oxford
  3. University of Paris
  4. University of Palencia
  5. University of Salamanca
  6. University of Cambridge

However, the University of Coimbra appears at around tenth in the List of oldest universities in continuous operation (after a couple of non-European universities):

  1. University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy, founded 1088
  2. University of Oxford, Oxford, England, founded about 1096
  3. University of Paris, Paris, France, founded 1150 (now split between several autonomous universities)
  4. University of Modena, Modena, Italy, founded 1175
  5. University of Cambridge, Cambridge, England, founded about 1209
  6. Salamanca University, Salamanca, Spain, founded 1218
  7. University of Padua, Padua, Italy, founded in 1222
  8. University of Naples, Naples, Italy, founded 1224
  9. University of Siena, Siena, Italy, founded 1240
  10. University of Coimbra, Coimbra, Portugal, founded in 1290 in Lisbon

I amended the statement to say:

The university founded in 1290 is one of the oldest in Europe; ...

which is clearly correct, but this was reverted. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:10, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Aloan, you look like an inocent man. ;) Cant you see that that lists are some kind of a war between wikipedians? this is another example: List_of_countries_by_date_of_nationhood these lists are useless to use as a reference.
  1. University of Bologna,
  2. University of Oxford,
  3. University of Paris,
  4. University of Palencia,
  5. University of Salamanca
  6. University of Cambridge

so you should investigate the ones of Modena, Padua(this is because it wasnt recognized has i read it in the university's website), Naples, Siena. (where's Palencia?) I'm surprized that in that list they dont clame an university in 500BC. Honestly, I'm chocked. I was expecting that.About the non-European ones, No comment. eheh. I think you should use other references than a wikipedia list. I do agree with you that in here can have biased info (the one of the biggest student party in Portugal) is one. Porto's much bigger. I fact, even if Porto was cutted in half, i belive it would continue to be bigger than Coimbra. -Pedro 21:51, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it would be helpful to find out who claims the university is the seventh oldest in Europe - is there any evidence to justifiy the article's strong assertion. For example, does the University claim that itself? Do its students? Anyone? In any event, it is clearly one of the oldest, so that factual, NPOV statement could be reinstated. I just didn't want to revert without discussing the point. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I reverted, they much be teached that way in the university! But I admit you are correct. Although using that List as a reference is not a good thing to do. -Pedro 22:59, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but in the absence of any evidence that it is the seventh oldest, surely we have to say one of the oldest? Saying "they must be taught that way in the university" is hardly definitive! -- ALoan (Talk) 10:23, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ok. But more reliable that a wikipedia list ;) -Pedro 11:17, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Population[edit]

The municipal area of Coimbra is much bigger than the city and includes many independent towns and villages. The real population of the city proper is less than 100,000. Also, there is no metropolitan area of Coimbra.

The city proper has 105 thousand inhanbitants of present population, not less than 100.000. It has a metropolitan area, called GAM-C, Grande Área Metropolitana de Coimbra.

Freakish heat flash[edit]

I removed the following because it has not been verified and may not be reliable. Reliable sources needed! Page Up 01:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • On July 6, 1949, a freakish heat flash temporarily raised the temperature to 70 ºC (158 ºF). Since this temperature

lasted for two minutes. Therefore, it was not sustained (over an hour), and it was not officially recorded as the hottest recorded temperature on the Earth's surface. This title went to Al 'Aziziyah, Libya with 57.7 ºC (135.9 ºF).

Incorrect Statement on Coimbra's QS ranking[edit]

The article states that Coimbra is the top ranked university in the Portuguese-speaking world according to the THES/QS ranking of world universities. That is factually incorrect ! According to the latest QS ranking, Coimbra is ranked #318, below the University of São Paulo (#175) and the University of Campinas (#177).

Source: http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/top_400_universities/0

Signature: 161.24.19.112 (talk) 12:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

City versus Municipality[edit]

I propose that aspects of this article be integrated into the municipality article. The reason for this suggestion is that the title and content are erroneous: the city of Coimbra has no legal standing, and the content pertains to the municipality of Coimbra. The original writers seemed to have mixed the city (which only pertains to catchment population, some services and name) with the municipality (that includes the administration, territorial division, social institutions, urbanized and rural divisions). Consequently, only part of the content is valid, and the remainder refers to the much larger legal territory. For example, one editor refered to "numerous parks", another claimed two, then a further started rhyming off a list to indicate the latters error. If you look in deeper to the content, one will probably note that there are references to places or things that are outside the "city of Coimbra" and only pertain to the municipality. The reason: the ambiguity between what is the city of Coimbra and what pertains to the municipality (consequently many editors are including references that strictly pertain to the municipality in this article). For example, I find it hard to believe that "forestry, dynamic horticulture production, vineyards and livestock raising" occur in the city of Coimbra, although it might exist in the municipality of Coimbra. Another point: there are no "city mayors" in Portuguese tradition; administratively, the municipality of Coimbra has a council and executive, not the city. These are just a few itinerant references.

This article should only cover a few things: the urbanized historic city, only those services, institutions and greenspaces that exist within its "borders", and should not have "municipal" content. All other content (the regional history, climate, economy, geographic references, institutions and notable citizenry, should be completely reviewed and parsed out to the municipal namespace.

The University was established 1290 in Lisbon and not in Coimbra[edit]

It is a common and ugly mistake to state, that the University in Portugal was established first in Coimbra. It was established in Lisbon and between 1290 and 1537 it moved to Coimbra returning again to Lisbon. Only in 1537 did it definitely stayed in Coimbra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.159.11 (talk) 20:16, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Questions and comments[edit]

1. The article, in the "Middle Ages" section says "The most important work in Gothic style in the city is the Monastery of Santa Clara-a-Velha, founded on the left side of the river Mondego by Queen Elizabeth of Portugal in the first half of the 14th century." The caption of the image in the same section says "Monastery of Santa Clara-a-Velha, refounded in 1314 by Queen Elizabeth of Portugal as a convent of Poor Clares in the parish of Santa Clara".

Was it founded or refounded? This needs to be consistent.

2. "A commission of five members, which included João Maria Baptista Callixto, António dos Santos Pereira Jardim, Roque Joaquim Fernandes Thomás, João Correia Ayres de Campos and António Egypcio Quaresma Lopes de Carvalho e Vasconcelos".

Is it really necessary and important to list all those names?

3. "The highest and lowest temperatures recorded in Coimbra are −7.8 °C (18.0 °F) and 42.5 °C (108.5 °F) in 1941 and 1943."

This sentence needs to be revised. I would but I don't know if the dates are inverted as the temperatures.

4. "About 460,000 inhabitants live in the Região de Coimbra, consisting of 19 municipalities".

Before that statement, a list of 18 civil parishes is provided. I assume the text uses "municipalities" as in "civil parishes".

5. "Postal services are provided in 15 parishes (48.4%)"

What does it mean?

6. "0% travel for over 12 km in a single direction".

What's the meaning of this? It sounds silly.

7. "Machado de Castro Museum, the second most important one in Portugal, housed in the former Episcopal Palace".

What is "one"? The use of it is improper.

8. Santarém, Portugal is listed as a twinned city. What's the date?

ICE77 (talk) 06:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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