Talk:Catalan grammar

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PDF document of the Catalan grammar, by the IEC[edit]

That file is maybe the best source for this article:

Gramàtica Catalana

Thanks!!--Fauban 12:28, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

es, ses and sa[edit]

On my travels around the Balearics, I have seen these in positions where I would guess would go either an article or a posessive. Are these specific to Balearic dialects, or do they have a completely different meaning that I'm missing? Chris 01:32, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You are right. These are used in Balearic Islands, either as demostrative or posessive article. (anon 23 April 2005)

Balearic Catalan preserves the so called article salat, a medieval system of articles (quite similar to that of Sardinian): es (or so after certain prepositions) / sa, plurals es (or sos after certain prepositions), ses. -- 10:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Perique des Palottes

Plural of roja[edit]

Plural of roja is rotjes??? Is that a dialect variation??? As far as I know the plural is roges. (User:J.Alonso 26 May 2005)

Standard written form of this plural is 'roges', pronounced depending on dialect: ['rrOZ@s] (Central, Balearic, Septentrional), or ['rrOZas] (Alguerese), or ['rrOZes] (most of Nord-occidental), or ['rrOdZes] (most of Valencian), or even ['rrOtSes] (Valencian apitxat). -- 10:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Perique des Palottes

I'm confused. The Catalan counterpart to en:Red is ca:Roig (which gives vermell as a synonym), and ca:Roja redirects to ca:Morrut, which says that morrut, also called roja, is a kind of olive. So why does this article say roja means red? Ruakh 16:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC) Never mind; roja is the adjective, roig the noun, apparently. Ruakh 16:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roig is both the noun and the masculine form of the adjective. --the Dúnadan 23:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, O.K., thanks. :-) —Ruakh_TALK 16:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What is the "en" of "en Pau"?[edit]

It looks like an article, which wouldn't be uncommon for a Romance language (cf. Portuguese, where articles are commonly used before proper nouns), but it's not discussed in the section on articles. Why isn't it "el Pau"? (Madler 08:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC))[reply]

En is an article used for masculine first names like Pau, its femenine being Na. Examples: En Jaume, Na Carolina. In case of vowel starting names it would be N' for both genders: N'Emili, N'Anna. The use of masculine En is common in eastern dialects and more formal occasions in the standard instead of el. Na/En are the regular articles used for names in the Balearic Islands. In the rest el/la are used. Note that in Catalan, first names are almost always preceded by en/el/la/na.--Hei hei 19:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Catalan generally uses an article before person names. Medieval Catalan used to have a specific system of so called personal articles: En for masculine and Na for feminine (both changed to N' before a vowel). This system is only fully preserved in contemporary Balearic. In most of contemporary Catalan, regular articles el/la are used as personal articles. And then, contemporary Valencian does not use personal articles at all. -- 10:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC) Perique des Palottes

Like their Spanish cognates don/doña, en and na are derived from Latin domine and domina respectively. Where they are used, en and na can precede any name, unlike Spanish where don and doña are only used as a mark of special respect. --ABehrens (talk) 00:07, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak pronouns[edit]

The weak pronouns section on this page needs serious improvement. On the chart, the A, B, C, and D headings need to be replaced with actual labels. The (a), (b), (c), and (d) notes below the chart do not match up to the headings, which is misleading, and I don't know what they're doing there. I don't know Catalan, but if someone does, this section should be the first target of improvement. --LakeHMM 06:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The meaning of those column headings is explained a paragraph earlier: The diagram below shows all of the different forms. The pronouns in column A are used when the verb begins with a consonant; those in column B when the verb begins with a vowel; those in column C when the verb ends in a consonant; and those in column D when the verb ends in a vowel. If you think that's a bad place for the explanation, then by all means, please be bold in improving it. :-) —Ruakh_TALK 18:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

en, hi, and ho[edit]

Does anybody else think than en, hi, and ho need to be explained more? I was thinking about adding a separate section for them but I was also wondering if anybody else thought it to be necessary. -BrandonGagliardo 13 April 2007

Improvement of the article and sublets[edit]

I'm thinking about using a good grammar book to expand the article to make it more informative for Catalan learners. Where do you think it could be improved and added? Let me know. I'll consider what to do tonight. Pieuvre (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my suggestions.

En/hi - Further explaination how to form them. They're very important to learn in Catalan grammar.

Verbs - Further explaination how to form the past with "anar" as in Standard Catalan, it's rare to use the passat simple (preterite). We should also add some common irregular verbs such as beure (to drink), conèixar (to know "someone"), saber (to know "a fact"), etc. The auxilliary verbs list could be improved to match the format used to explain the conjugation of regular verbs. That format looks nicer! :)

Adjectives: Further explaination how to form them. The current list is too simple and it does not show now to make masculine adjectives into feminine and plurals of both gender.

Adverbs: How to form them.

The list is not exhausive. There may be more addition if I find anything important to be listed in the article for those who want to learn a little/a lot of basic Catalan. I'll take a look in the Catalan Wikipedia for further ideas as it is more informative. Pieuvre (talk) 23:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Verbs - Partially done. Auxilliary verbs table improved to match the format used for the regular verbs. It looks nicer now! Pieuvre (talk) 04:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Verbs - Mostly done. Regular verbs table improved to correct some mistakes and added the perphrastic tenses (since the past and the past anterior tenses are rarely used in modern Catalan). Final step is to create a sublet show the common irregular verbs. Pieuvre (talk) 01:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Institut d'Estudis Catalans.gif[edit]

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Punctuation[edit]

The article is missing a section on punctuation, especially on the usage or not of inverted question and exclamation marks in modern Catalan, and maybe a comparison table with Spanish punctuation.--Chimel31 (talk) 18:47, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Done!--Fauban 08:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]