Talk:Isadora Duncan

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AggieAb99.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:50, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Incredibles?[edit]

This line is outright false: "In the Pixar animated movie The Incredibles Edna Mode refuses to make a cape for Mr. Incredible's new uniform, citing Isadora's tragic tangling and death from her scarf. The villain, Syndrome, is later killed in a similar way when his cape is caught in a jet engine."

No reference was made either directly or indirectly to Isadora Duncan. Edna Mode's "no capes!" speech speaks only of superheroes and owes more to Alan Moore's Watchmen (in which the hero Dollar Bill gets his cape snagged in a revolving door while trying to foil a robbery) than the history of Isadora.

I'm willing to be corrected but I think it should be removed.

Confusing[edit]

I added the confusing tag because this bio jumps around all over the place chronologically and doesn't really give any clue as to how she rose to prominence or where she learned to dance etc. etc. or where she was when she did what ..... it's a bloody mess. 81.79.184.39 23:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who is Montparnasse? It isn't who but what: Montparnasse is a famous area of Paris, France for its artistic environment!

I second this opinion...how were she and her sister able to teach dance...where did they learn it...the entire article sounds made up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.107.204.109 (talk) 07:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Joke[edit]

Why is there a lame joke from a British comedy show on this page? It's totally irrelevant.

I think someone should remove it.

I'm not sure where she died it was on the French Riviera Nice or Cannes I can't remember.

Nice. See : http://www.seminaire-sherbrooke.qc.ca/hist/hist5/travaux/biog/D/duncan.htm (in French)

Is the photo in public domain ?

Was she born in San Francisco or Oakland?

This link tells me it's San Fran

did she die on the 14th or 19th? September_19 says 19th

A search on google show that it's a photograph by Arnold Genthe it doesn't seems to be public domain.


Isadora Duncan died over 60 years ago, so it should be public picture !
It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. See U.S. Copyright Law for details. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My English teacher taught us to use Duncan's name to help find which part of a sentence has the independent and dependent clause. Here's what she taught us: If Duncan's name was in a phone book, it would be Duncan, Isadora. For a sentence that would be dependent than independent.- B-101 16:26, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

ballet vs. modern[edit]

isadora disliked ballet, correct? its all a bullshit article

Suicide attempt[edit]

In the youtube site you can see a video [1] which says that Isadora tried to kill herself by drowning in Nice on 5th October 1926. Is that true????

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.243.200.39 (talk) 19:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

In a Pond, perhaps???
Sorry couldn’t help it I’m a New Brunswicker and have actually ran into the Davitron a few times. 134.41.121.14 (talk) 00:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to the book Artists of the Dance she died tragically when wile driving her car her scarf wrapped around the axle and broke her neck. 128.103.220.249 17:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HELLOOOOOOO, I'm not saying that Isadora died by drowning but she attempted suicide in 1926 (she died in 1927!!!! Wow, don't you understand what I wrote before?

Project Gutenberg[edit]

If anyone from PG is reading this, My Life would made a great book for digitalising. She died 79 years ago, so I assume it is out of copyright.

I agree about the joke - I'm going to remove it.

Death[edit]

The article states that Isadora Duncan died when her scarf was caught in an Amilcar automobile. However, I've heard from many sources that it was a Bugatti. I'm considering changing this. Zapvet 02:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The general consensus is that it was an Amilcar. http://www.bugattipage.com/jacob/InfoHunt/Q-076.html http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=4f183a36ad11a89068692d3ee63b73e6&postid=938386#post938386 http://forums.atlasf1.com/printthread.php?threadid=9925 Janm67 05:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most newspaper accounts from the time say she was wearing a red Spanish silk scarf which strangled her, not a Russian scarf. The AP articles also say that she was riding with her biographer, Mary Desta and a French chauffeur demonstrating a new racing car she had bought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.56.88.4 (talk) 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Birth Date[edit]

According to the books Artists of the Dance and Modern Dance Body & Mind she was born in 1878. This site lists 1877, which is also stated in the book Dancing and Mixed Media. Is Artists wrong?128.103.220.249 17:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, she was baptised at Old Saint Mary's Church on California Street on October 13, 1877. That would be difficult if she was born in 1878. --Kosmoshiva 05:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talking Heads[edit]

There's no substantiation for the Talking Heads 'Psycho Killer' reference other than fan-based speculation. The quote only vaguely resembles Duncan's last words and the context of the rest of the song's lyrics have nothing to do with her. Unless there's an authoritative reference (eg from the band), it should be removed. Kosmoshiva 02:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Lost the bank"[edit]

Which bank? In the early life section it says her father lost the bank but there is no previous mention of which bank(s). Toddst1 (talk) 17:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to Samuel Dickson (San Francisco Kaleidoscope - Stanford University Press, 1957), Isadora Duncan's father, Joseph Duncan, was a cashier at Bank of California. He is reported to have had an affair with a Russian Hill spinster, whereupon his wife divorced him and moved to Oakland with her children.Apiquet (talk) 01:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am reading the book with letter[edit]

to Isadora from Stanislavski .He adviced her to meet the director of Imperial theatres and ask for funds to build her school in Moscow .Letter is dated 1908 . If there is some info on Isadora biography at that time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edelward (talk • contribs) 11:47, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isadora movie[edit]

There is a film, Isadora, made in the 60s, starring Vanessag Redgreaves as Isadora Duncan. I don't see this listed in the info page on Isadora Duncan.

Please add this as Vanessa Redgrave does some wonderful and powerful Isadora dancing in the film.

with thanks, Jan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.66.69.85 (talk) 03:44, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scroll down and it's there. It's the first mention under "Film" which is the first heading under "In popular culture". Kosmoshiva (talk) 12:55, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Affectations Can Be Dangerous" quotation source[edit]

Under reference note #13, the link takes the reader to the page of a fictionalized historical writing site (Three Hundred Words) with the title "Affectations Can Be Dangerous." Although I do appreciate the reference to the site (it's mine!), the only source that is visible in the story is actually a hyperlink back to the Wiki article on Isadora Duncan. Doesn't this imply that Wikipedia is citing itself as a source? Perhaps a link to a page citing the source of the actual quote?

Cyurkanin (talk) 06:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More nonsense?[edit]

"Duncan began her dancing career by teaching lessons in her home from the time she was six through her teenage years." - damn right it needs a citation. Teaching at age six? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.178.36 (talk) 18:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relationship with Mercedes de Acosta[edit]

Hi. Per the following letter from Duncan to de Acosta: "...A slender body, hands soft and white, for the service of my delight, two sprouting breasts round and sweet, invite my hungry mouth to eat, from whence two nipples firm and pink, persuade my thirsty soul to drink, and lower still a secret place where I'd fain hide my loving face...." I think it is valuable to identify their affair but the graphic detail of this letter is inappropriate in an encyclopedia and it's vaguely homophobic since nothing this sexually explicit would be included in the personal sections of heterosexual people. Most importantly, perhaps, it adds nothing to our understanding of the whole Duncan's life. Discussion about this? Unless someone can persuasively argue that this text adds something worthwhile to the p., I'm going to remove it. Thanks,--Classicfilmbuff--Classicfilmbuff (talk) 17:21, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Close paraphrasing[edit]

The final paragraph of the lead and the first paragraph of the legacy section are copied with minor changes from a non-free source (Wayback machine archive from Feb 8 2006). The edit that inserted the offending passage was made in 2010. Could someone with subject knowledge rephrase or remove the plagiarism?

Examples of plagiarism:

Source: "Breaking with convention, Isadora traced the art of dance back to its roots as a sacred art."

Wikipedia: "Breaking with convention, she traced the art of dance back to its roots as a sacred art."

Source: "She developed within this idea, free and natural movements inspired by the classical Greek arts, folk dances, social dances, nature and natural forces as well as an approach to the new American athleticism which included skipping, running, jumping, leaping and tossing."

Wikipedia: "She developed within this idea, free and natural movements inspired by the classical Greek arts, folk dances, social dances, nature and natural forces as well as an approach to the new American athleticism which included skipping, running, jumping, leaping and tossing."

93.107.156.23 (talk) 11:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. Wizardman 02:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Citation Tags[edit]

I hate to fill a page with tags as it greatly takes away from being able to actually read it, but this page is full of fancruft, non-NPOV, and blatant opinion. I see from the Talk page that I'm not the first one to say that... I've tagged the worst and deleted several references that were from the (clearly commercial and biased) Isadora Organization as non-WP:RS. I also tried to clear up some of the spelling and word smithing to make the sentences stronger. Ckruschke (talk) 12:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke[reply]

Soviet Union[edit]

The lead paragraph says "Born in California, she lived in Western Europe and the Soviet Union from the age of 22 until her death at age 50. She performed to acclaim throughout Europe after being exiled from the United States for her pro-Soviet sympathies." Yet nowhere in the article do we support with referenced material that she was exiled from the United States. Being exiled is a rather severe claim to have anywhere in the article without clear referencing, let alone in the lead paragraph. Was she exiled? If so, where is the material to back this up?--MLKLewis (talk) 21:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Children[edit]

It says she had a son in 1910. with Isaac Singer, but link with Isaac says that he died in 1875. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cronnin (talk • contribs) 12:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey at least it doesn’t say she had a son with David Pond.
‘Cause then you would think that David Pond wrote it. 134.41.121.14 (talk) 01:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Grave or columbarium[edit]

Her ashes are in the columbarium at Père-Lachaise[1], as the article states. The article refers to "the headstone of her grave" but I'm not sure if either the word "headstone" or "grave" is appropriate when talking about a columbarium, which is an above-ground, vertical wall with niches in it[2], behind which the remains are kept. "Interred" (= "in the earth") seems wrong for the same reason, although I think I've seen the expression "interred in the columbarium" before. A cursory search finds "entombed"[3] in a columbarium, "interred" and even "inurned".[4][5] "Buried" is usually for something placed underground. Mathglot (talk) 19:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC) Edited by Mathglot (talk) 19:54, 3 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Isadora Duncan at Find a Grave
  2. ^ Image of columbarium at Père-Lachaise
  3. ^ Everplans, How to Bury Cremated Remains
  4. ^ The Grammarphobia Blog, Burial Ground, 2012-05-02
  5. ^ California Department of Consumer Affairs, Cemetery and Funeral Bureau, Glossary of Funeral & Cremation Terms

Popular culture[edit]

Several items listed under this heading are clearly not examples of popular culture. Rwood128 (talk) 20:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal Life section[edit]

I came here from a very sweary rant via Signpost and noted the following - the second from last and third from last paragraphs in the section -

In 1917, after the close of the Russian Revolution, Duncan moved to Moscow where she met and married the acclaimed poet, Sergei Esenin. Sergei was 17 years Isadora's junior. Duncan brought Esenin with her to the United States but a few years later he left her and returned to St. Petersburg.
In 1922 she married the Russian poet Sergei Yesenin who was 18 years her junior. Yesenin accompanied her on a tour of Europe and the United States. The following year he left Duncan and returned to Moscow.

Seems to me that she either married two different Sergei's who both just happened to be poets from St. Petersburg or there has been a mistake. Probably the latter. Unfortunately, this is the page I'd look at if I wanted to find out about her, so I'm hoping somebody who is watching this knows how to find out about these fellows ??? If nobody answers, I'll probably delete the paras concerned as unsourced. -Roxy the dog™ woof 15:49, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And Then There's Maude[edit]

Is there some reason why the popular culture sections doesn't mention the fact that Isadora was immortalized in the lyrics of the theme song from the TV show Maude? The song lists Lady Godiva, Joan of Arc, Isadora, and Betsy Ross. It says "Isadora was the first bra burner; ain't you glad she showed up?". It seems to me this should be included here. Any good reason for not doing so? Sbunny8 (talk) 02:07, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally we look for a secondary source, say a biography of Duncan or a feminist media studies article or something, which would confirm that this mention is of lasting and broadly interesting encyclopedic significance. See WP:IPC. I found this article on ATTM, with a rather trivial but possibly adequate passing mention. Can you dig up anything stronger? FourViolas (talk) 04:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Isadora Duncan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

re Isadora Duncan's date of birth, other sites record it as 27th May 1878 (it's 26th May 1877 on the WIKI page, and I wondered which is correct? Lacygumboots 09:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 09:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 19:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Critique (ASU WST)[edit]

I have few criticisms of the Wikipedia article on Isadora Duncan--mostly I found that some of the more dramatic events of her life somewhat inadequately described. For example, when the article tells that Isadora's young children died in their runaway car, it is not stated who they were with and if there were further investigations, nor is there a requesite quote or mentioning of Isadora's response to the tragedy. If I were going to edit this page, I would find out (as I already have in finding her autobiography a couple of days ago) what some of the pertinent details of the accident were and what Isadora's feeling about it was initially. I was wondering if Isadora was in the car with them when they died, so in this way the article didn't elucidate important facts and details. I discovered elsewhere the children were with their nanny, and that Isadora had an unusual reaction to the news of their death--that of wanting to console the others around her grieving in an "exalted" way--not really feeling despair herself. I will round up the exact quotes and appropriate source(s) (namely her autobiography) and add that if/when possible. AudraCharlee (talk) 23:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relations?[edit]

Maybe should add scarface? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.116.240 (talk) 15:35, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

mentioned in "Let It Be" movie? (The Beatles)[edit]

I haven't seen that movie in a while, but I remembered hearing "Isadora Duncan" somewhere (not remembering it was in the movie). So I did a web search and came up with John Lennon saying or singing "Isadora Duncan worked for Telefunken". Carlm0404 (talk) 04:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Project for Technical Editing Undergrad Course[edit]

Hello!

I am a student at Texas A&M, and I have been assigned to work on and hopefully improve Wikipedia articles, including Isadora Duncan, for a project in my Technical Editing course. For the next couple weeks, I hope to tackle some organizational improvements that I think will help the flow of the article, and I have some ideas for stylistic changes to make in terms of the tag about neutral point of view. Before I make any bold edits to the article itself, I will first make them in my sandbox. Once I have that started, I will post it here.

I am really looking forward to working in Wikipedia, and I would greatly appreciate advice from others who are involved with this article as I move forward! --AggieAb99 (talk) 23:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the link to my sandbox for this article: User:AggieAb99/Isadora Duncan. I am still working on it, and would really appreciate any advice before I make edits to the actual article! --AggieAb99 (talk) 23:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Recent Edits[edit]

Hello! I made some edits, some for improved organization and others for reduced subjectivity (after testing them out in my sandbox). I would really appreciate if anyone had any thoughts/feedback on them! --AggieAb99 (talk) 17:02, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

.

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