Talk:Clare Boothe Luce

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Biography assessment rating comment[edit]

WikiProject Biography Assessment Drives

Definitely beyond Start class.

Want to help write or improve biographies? Check out WikiProject Biography Tips for writing better articles. -- Yamara 21:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest this article is actually NOT beyond "Start" class. One of the major issues with it is lack of full and correct biographical information. For example: the article section on her writing career jumps to a point where it states that "In 1947, after her second term in the US House expired, Luce wrote a series of articles..." However, no prior discussion or mention of her congressional seat is given (this appears later in the article). Additionally the dates of writing vs political involvement overlap and are not clear.
This article needs some very serious corrections and improvements. IMHO it is not yet beyond "Start" class. I hope that someone will be able to do these improvements, as it would be helpful to know more about her start in government. It is particularly unclear how she managed to be a war-time journalist while also apparently holding a congressional seat! --gobears87 (talk) 10:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This section is horrible -- Marriage to Henry Luce -- it makes the Luce's sound like junior members of the Algonquin Round Table. We're talking about one of the most influential couples in American history, not some SoHo beatnick writer. Score another dud for the Wiki method. 10stone5 (talk) 23:35, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dear 10stone5 and gobears87 , I edited and reevaluated the article.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:16, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LSD/Drug Use[edit]

This sentence from the original article:

"Her husband introduced her to the hallucinogen LSD in the late 1950s."

is not in any of my source material. Your source please. WBardwin 06:31, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know the original source, but I don't think it's a disputed point. See the Library of Congress's discussion of her papers (which reside there): [1]: "She experimented with LSD under the tutelage of Gerald Heard and Sidney Cohen (1910- )" - Nunh-huh 06:36, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

--with her husband? WBardwin 06:40, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, with her husband. Why does that seem peculiar??? In any case:

Heard's attitude to the psychedelics was enthusiastic (with appropriate research caveats and precautions). Playing the role of "psychedelic psychopomp," he championed their intelligent use (under a physician's supervision) among his select coterie of friends, who included, for example, William C. Mullendore (Chairman of the Board of Southern California Edison), Bill Wilson (the cofounder of Alcoholics Anonymous), philosopher William Ernest Hocking, Jesuit theologian Father John Courtney Murray, film director John Huston, and Time publisher Henry Luce and his wife, Clare Booth Luce.

[2] - Nunh-huh 06:45, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

no, not peculiar. Just wanted to get it right in the article. WBardwin 06:53, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
She probably drank a lot with him, too<g>. - Nunh-huh 07:05, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)


The phrasing of the sentence makes it sound as if they were using the drug for recreational purposes when in fact it was for experimental psychiatric purposes. While it is factual I think it should be rephrased to make the intent clearer. Elipongo 18:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dear WBardwin, Nunh-huh, Elipongo, I added the caveat, based on Elipongo's suggestion and WBardwin's questioning the cite to his own book, and Nunh-huh's cite to an inventory list, to clarify the drug use. Just because you are fiends with Dr. LSD, does not mean you are trippy.  Done We need a better verifiable source. Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:35, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Birthday![edit]

Recent edit changed Luce's birth month from April to March. Anyone have a source to confirm that? Other web pages show April, as ours originally did. WBardwin 17:36, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

returned birth month to April, until a source can be provided that shows otherwise. WBardwin 14:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
SEE BELOW. Quis separabit? 23:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dear WBardwin and Quis separabit?, Based on reliable source, which I added to main article, March 10, 1903 is the correct birthday.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:04, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No Good Good Deed Goes Unpunished[edit]

In what context did she make this famous quote? Thanks for your time and info. I am, Roger Spencer, Toronto, Canada

Dear Roger, she actually did not make this famous quote at all, because it already existed: see here [3]
It turns out that Clare Boothe Luce’s most famous quip, “No good deed goes unpunished,” first recorded in 1957, was actually attributed to Walter Winchell 15 years earlier. And as Shapiro notes, there is evidence to suggest that it had been a proverb even before that. Textor (talk) 03:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The text of the article, as of 19 June 2014, is better and adds a caveat. Also, the above ref just goes to a landing page.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:40, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I just read this in "The Pendragon Legend" published in 1934 (in Hungarian) by Antal Szerb. Page 55 in the translation by Len Rix.[1]
He was told one day, while at cards, that his mistress -- whom he had raised from the level of a simple orange seller -- had run off with the fencing master, taking a significant quantity of the family baubles with her. His sole response was "Every good deed gets the punishment it deserves," and he carried on with the game.
Erichschlaikjer (talk) 14:59, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Szerb, Antal (1934(2006)). The Pendragon Legend. Pushkin Press. p. 55. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

clarifications?[edit]

This sentence is in the article: "Luce's unsettling observations eventually led to changes in British military policy in the Middle East." Observations of what, exactly? What was changed? Was she documenting the torture of prisoners, or the use of bagpipes (possibly related)? Also, the intro cites her as a social activist, but I don't see anything in the article that seems to support this label. Does it just refer to her championing anti-communism? -Bert 171.159.64.10 02:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For your informstion there is no evidence of British Army personel torturing Africa Korps prisoners, both sides fought with dignity. Also I find your qoute about bagpipes offensive becuase I am a Scotsman and we proudly march into battle with the pipes playing. We don`t care what Americans think, Scotland biult the greatest empire the world ever saw. Dumb yank

Dear Bert, As of 19 June 2014, another editor address this issue. Dear Scotsman, The bagpipe or torture issue is just a retorical on the part of Bert.  Done My best regards to both, Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:44, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan[edit]

There doesn't seem to be much mention of her prominent activities in the 1960's or early 1970's to keep up U.S. support of Taiwan, and to stave off U.S. recognition for the P.R.C. AnonMoos 13:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear AnonMoos, Please provide a source and text, in addition to the text allready in the article. Thank you in advance.  Not done yet because need more soruces. Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:46, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure why your reaction to this comment was diametrically opposed to your reaction to the Chiang Kai-shek comment below, when they're basically exactly the same thing... AnonMoos (talk) 15:18, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Photograph[edit]

I have removed the photo in this article; it depicts actress Clare Luce (1903-1989), not Clare Booth Luce (despite the similarity of names, they are two different women). For a 1932 photo of CBL by Van Vechten, see the Van Vechten images of her stored at the Library of Congress ... http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?pp/ils:@FILREQ(@field(SUBJ+@od1(Luce,+Clare+Boothe,--1903-1987+))+@FIELD(COLLID+van)). I have sent an email to the Library of Congress librarian regarding this misidentification of the one image that is not correct in that link.

The librarian got back to me and said, yes, the previously used image was not of CBL but of Claire Luce (note the "i" in the first name) and that "I will send the correction to our cataloging staff for attention. Thank you for contacting us about this oversight." Nice substitution of the new image, however; much better.

Thank you fellow editor.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:TheWomenDVD.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Henry[edit]

Barely a word about Henry in this article. Their marriage isn't mentioned and his name isn't wikilinked. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously has been corrected, but there are other glaring biographical omissions! (Will post about this above in the section on article classification.) --gobears87 (talk) 10:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected already; has a whole subsection.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:51, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Allegations of affair with Roald Dahl[edit]

The Sunday Times (London) claims Clare Boothe Luce had a torrid wartime affair with children books' author Roald Dahl. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article4641287.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.236.88 (talk) 00:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Fellow ediotr, The link is behind a paywall. I can not verify.  Not done Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:53, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]


try these http://www.c-span.org/video/?281096-1/book-discussion-irregulars

http://www.newsweek.com/books-those-glamorous-wartime-british-sleuths-88333

http://thisrecording.com/today/2011/6/1/in-which-we-consider-the-macabre-unpleasantness-of-roald-dah.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.155.189.88 (talk) 02:26, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Magazine articles[edit]

I added this line: In 1944 she also wrote for the monthly magazine Prevent World War III. It is such a weird thing for a Congresswoman to do so I though it was notable enough, it's not your ordinary magazine. I didn't add a cite, but if you check this link you can find her mentioned with item 7838.--Stor stark7 Speak 04:37, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Stor stark7 , I followed the link you provided and could not find the book using the search tool. Pleade provide a more specific link.  Not done yet. Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:02, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Chiang Kai-shek[edit]

The article doesn't do much to make clear her role as a very enthusiastic consistent long-term cheerleader for Chiang Kai-shek. Certainly by the early 1970s, when USA-PRC relations were thawing, many Americans would have known her more for that than for anything else... AnonMoos (talk) 09:39, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dear AnonMoos , As of 19 June 2014, Luce's activities are well documented in the article. Please provide another reference for additional text.  Done Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:05, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what you mean -- the only mentions of Chiang Kai-shek in the article refer to the 1940s, and there's no mention of Republic of China or Taiwan (see my 2007 comment above, which I apparently forgot about when I made my 2011 comment). This should all logically go into the "Political life after office" section, since it was her most publicly prominent activity during much of that period.... AnonMoos (talk) 15:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Correct birthdate[edit]

Clare Boothe Luce was born in March, not April as per the following:

# Social Security Death Index

  1. Her biographer, Sylvia Jukes Morris reported that: "I tracked down her B.C. and found that she was not born on April 10, 1903 but on March 10, and not on Riverside Drive but in the less genteel environs of W. 125th St. I told her about the dates and she stared at me. 'Mom always said I was born at Easter. Anyway, people born under Aires are much more lighthearted and gay than those born under Pisces.'"
  2. New York Times blog
  3. Answers.com Quis separabit? 23:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I investigated and researched the four links above by geraldshields11
  1. this link is struck out by another editor and is not accessible.
  2. The "Astro-Databank wiki publishes the huge collection of astrological data collected by Lois Rodden and her cooperators, so that these data can be used for astrological research, for astrological publications and for serious astrological discussion." It would not be a good reliable source for facts.
  3. The New York Times blog says her birth date is April 10, 1903 in the first paragraph.
  4. This website seems to be a data aggregator and collected an old Wikipedia article about Luce.
    1. Chase's Calendar of Events: Clare Boothe Luce -- March 10 date
    2. Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: Clare Boothe Luce -- March 10 date
    3. Gale Encyclopedia of Biography: Clare Boothe Luce -- April 10 date
    4. Wikipedia on Answers.com: Clare Boothe Luce -- March 10 date (but this is a mirror site of an old Wikipedia article that was not updated.)
Based on my evaluation of the above four sources, April 10, 1903 is likely the correct birth date and not March 10, 1903.  Not done Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:29, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
However, based on this New York Times article written by biographer Sylvia Jukes Morris, "In Search of Clare Boothe Luce", March 10, 1903 is the correct birth date.

I tracked down her New York birth certificate, and found that she was born not on April 10, 1903, but on March 10 - and not on Riverside Drive, but in the less genteel environs of West 125th Street.

Also, this Library of Congress website cites March 10, 1903. Quis separabit? 22:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Done based on quoted material Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

SHE WAS FEATURED IN LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS[edit]

SHE IS A CHARACTER IN THE HIT MUSICAL LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS! SOMEONE SHOULD ADD A SECTION WITH ALL ACTORS THAT HAVE PORTRAYED THE "MRS. LUCE" CHARACTER IN THE MUSICAL! KTHNX BAI! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.45.68.227 (talk) 20:18, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a major research project and would increase the usefulness of the article, for the average reader, by maybe 0.00375%. IMHO. Wanderer57 (talk) 13:26, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Wanderer57. Is the character, in the play, based on the same real life person or is it just a coincidence of the same stock name? If it is based on the same person, then ‘’’maybe’’’ a subsection called ‘’’In Popular Culture’’’ would be appropriate, if a neutral third party source could be found.  Not done Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I happen to have seen the original off-Broadway production of Little Shop of Horrors (twice actually) and there was a character called "Mrs. Luce" (played by a guy) who came into the shop in question and threw money around before leaving. However, this is quite minor and should not be included. Quis separabit? 22:08, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The character Mrs. Luce in the stage musical Little Shop of Horrors is unquestionably based on the real life person. The character appears briefly, singing one verse of "The Meek Shall Inherit". I say "unquestionably" based on the lyrics which can be found here:
http://www.parolesmania.com/paroles_little_shop_of_horrors_28863/paroles_the_meek_shall_inherit_598812.html
I wonder whether the real Mrs. Luce was aware of her portrayal in the musical and if so, what she thought of it. Wanderer57 (talk) 14:28, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New NEWS today, for future editing[edit]

Headline: And the 2014 Woman of the Year Award Goes to….

QUOTE: "Yesterday, the Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute honored Townhall.com News Editor Katie Pavlich as the 2014 Woman of the Year. The Institute was founded in 1993 to help organize and prepare conservative women for leadership." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 18:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.[reply]

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On the references for the article, Sylvia Jukes Morris is credited for her 1988 article in The New York Times Magazine. However, Ms.Morris' books on the subject are not cited. Yet, when certain facts are referenced, we see "Morris, 1997, pg.191-198", etc. Can we please get a proper reference for these? I believe it would be, "Sylvia Jukes Morris, Rage to Fame: The Rise of Clare Boothe Luce, page 49-52, Random House,1997 " for Number 9 in the References. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sennis1 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 8, 1941 issue of Life magazine[edit]

The biography mentions that her profile of General MacArthur was on the newsstands the day after the Japanese attact.While probably technically accurate, it implies the magazine was distributed on the 8th.It would be more accurate to say it as on the newsstands and in the homes when Japan attacked. The date on a magazine’s cover in not the date A magazine is distributed, it is usually a date sometime after the publication. I do not know the dating system at Life in 1941, but it could be discovered. It’s more significant a coincidence if the issue was distributed before Dec. 7. Wis2fan (talk) 04:28, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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