Talk:Geography of Europe

Turkey is not Europe

Turkey is not Europe and any references must be deleted from the article, please stop vandalizing the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.33.226.160 (talk) 21:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

East Thrace is part of Europe, Anatolia isn't. Turkey is therefore a country that spans the boundary between Europe and Asia. Sakkura (talk) 10:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments

There were many talk pages with users putting this page forward as an idea. As each of the other continents has it's own 'geography of' page, I thought I'd start one for Europe, borrowing from the exisitng geography section in the main Europe article, but which can be added to over time. Grunners 16:34, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cyprus

The vast majority (if not all) of the major articles in Wikipedia confirm that Cyprus is a geographically Asian island nation which is broadly culturally European.

Therefore, all geographical references to Cyprus being in Europe out to be removed. To assert (as it seems happens in some quarters) that Cyprus is both in Europe and Asia in articles discussing physical geography is absurd. There may be arguments (if so, please make them on the relevant pages for Asia and Europe) for saying that Cyprus is in Europe, but not both ! --jrleighton 07:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

No doubt Cyprus is geophysically Asian, whereas geopolitically European. Which of the two is geographical? noychoH 12:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Since this article is about physical geography, I'd say that Asia is the correct location for Cyprus. If you're going to include geopolitical considerations, then a good case could be made for also including Turkey and Russia in their entirety. Klausness (talk) 11:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Largest city in Italy

Milan largest city in Italy?? Rome is far larger, it's one of the biggest comune in Europe and the biggest in Italy, as Rome's article report.

See here —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bumbulski (talk • contribs) 16:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

List of countries by the number of other countries they border

This list seems strange. Spain, for example, is said to border four countries. When I look at a map, I can only see three (Portugal, France, Andorra). Is bordering Gibraltar counted in, as well? If it is, why is the UK bordering only ONE country (presumably Ireland).--85.49.225.28 18:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, cos Gibraltar isn't a country, although it is territory, so, as Poland borders with Russia, we have to count Gibraltar as such. Though, what about countries that are along water? I.E. Morocco is just 13km away of Spain, with water on the way. If it was a lake it would be counted.--Nauki 21:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, my! I've just realised. There is Ceuta and Melilla that border with Morocco anyway. So, yes, definitely, 5 countries! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FeMeMe (talk • contribs) 21:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

The UK technically borders France too, thanks to the Channel Tunnel 81.109.115.135 (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

France doesn't seem to add up. If you don't count overseas territories, it borders 8 countries (Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Monaco, Spain, and Andorra) - 9 if you count the tunnel to the UK. If you do count the overseas territories listed below the table (bordering Suriname, Brazil, and the Netherlands), it borders 11 (12 if you count the UK). I don't see how you could come out with France bordering exactly 10 countries, as listed in the table.

France (including overseas departements and territories) indeed borders 11 countries, as explicited in Geography of France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.192.48.186 (talk) 20:34, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I fixed this. --Steve Foerster (talk) 03:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted the UK. While Sint Maarten is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and French Guiana is part of France, Gibraltar is legally not part of the United Kingdom. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 04:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Then, if Gibraltar is not part of the UK, please move Spain back to 4 borders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.127.200.35 (talk) 16:25, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Capital names

Andorra's capital city is Andorra la Vella, does that count as sharing the same name?--Nauki 20:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

British Isles

I noticed that someone has come along and changed all the instances of the words "British Isles" to "UK and Ireland" without consensus or even discussion of the subject. Please bear in mind that this is a contentious issue that has its own page (British Isles naming dispute), and a specific talk page (Talk:British Isles/name debate) already. Please look at these pages before making wholesale changes to this article, as these are likely to be reverted if there is no discussion. --carelesshx _talk 13:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Islands or archipelagoes?

Some of the mentioned islands are really archipelagoes with several islands, like Svalbard, where Spitsbergen is the largest island. Orcaborealis (talk) 19:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC).

True. The list desperately lacks consistency, even in the basic criteria for inclusion (if there even are any - since even Zealand was missing until today, I kind of doubt it). Sakkura (talk) 20:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Major islands, inclusion criteria

I think we need to set up some criteria for inclusion in the list of major islands. I went through the list of major islands and found those islands and archipelagoes that have a population below 100,000 and an area of less than 1,000 km². I suggest those be eliminated from the list, unless someone can come up with a good reason to keep them. This is a very arbitrary limit, so feel free to suggest another limit, or other criteria that might be relevant.

• Isle of Man (80,000 inhabitants, 572 km²)
• Rockall (uninhabited, less than 1 km²)
• Hiiumaa (11,087 inhabitants, 989 km²)
• Jan Mayen (nearly uninhabited, 373 km²)

Removing the above would bring the list down to 26 islands and archipelagoes. Removing double entries of archipelagoes and individual islands could further reduce it. There are also a number of islands not currently on the list that would merit inclusion under those criteria. Sakkura (talk) 14:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Well it's been a week, so I went ahead and removed those four. Sakkura (talk) 12:12, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Lowlands: Netherlands

Shouldn't there be mentioned something about 40% of the netherlands lying under the sealevel? Wob-Wob (talk) 14:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Generalizations that can be made about the relief of Europe

This is a terrible sentence...

"The few generalizations that can be made about the relief of Europe make it less than surprising that the continent's many separate regions provided homes for many separate nations throughout history."

What is the intended meaning?

--Richard (talk) 05:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Opening paragraph

The following sentence in the opening paragraph makes no sense: Geology justifies this tradition as reasonable because of the difference between the cultures of the traditional Europe and the traditional Asia. Geology has nothing to do with culture. Geology is the study of the earth in terms of rocks, minerals and physical processes affecting them. Cultures are covered in geography and other related fields such as sociology. Unless someone can make some sense of this sentence I will delete it.Khajidha (talk) 05:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Coastline

Should comment be made about Europe's unusually long coastline (relative to its land area)?

List of countries by the number of other countries they border

Should the British crown dependencies and the Faroe islands be included in this table? They aren't countries such as the rest of the ones on the table are, and adding those opens the door to a lot of controversy and other additions. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 06:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

The Faeroes are a constituent country just like England, Scotland, Wales etc. and thus aren't comparable to the British crown dependencies. Still, it would benefit the article to have a specific policy as to which types of territories etc. are to be listed separately. To me, consistency is more important than where you actually draw the line. Sakkura (talk) 23:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

The Faroe's are completely different from the UK constituent countries, the two titles are unrelated. Both are not "countries" in the sense used here, which is used synonymously with sovereign state. I think that is the best cut off. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

So you're saying Gibraltar is an independent country now? Besides which, wikipedia itself lists both the Faeroes and England etc. as constituent countries, so I fail to see the great difference between them (though there are differences, of course). Sakkura (talk) 15:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Good catch. I shall remove that.

The UK constituent countries and the Danish constituent countries have the same title, but completely different political situations. The UK countries are the historically independent countries that were slowly incorporated into one country under one crown. They have, however, maintained their own cultural identities, which have undergone a large revival lately. The Danish constituent countries (greenland, Faroes) are political entities which have been under the rule of Denmark since the Treaty of Kiel, and have moved a long way towards independence, having full internal autonomy and their own versions of the Danish passport. Basically, one (UK) is a historically based title, the other (Denmark) is a title achieved due to modern political events.

Hope that summary helped. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 15:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Well the summary is both wrong and irrelevant in this context. But since the section has arrived at a reasonable and consistent list of countries, I see no reason to argue over it. However, other sections could use a similar pruning. Sakkura (talk) 16:40, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd be surprised if it was completely wrong, haggled over this in List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Europe for awhile. Then again, you'd probably know slightly more about the Kingdom of Denmark than me, detailwise. I only know what wikipedia has taught me ;)

Will work on pruning. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 16:46, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Pennines

I don't think the Pennines should be included in the list of mountain ranges. The arcticle says "Some of Europe's major mountain ranges are", however the Pennines are far from 'Major'. If we include the Pennines we might as well also include the Black Mountains in Wales, the Wicklow Mountains in Ireland or the Harz mountains in Germany. Their inclusion seems Anglocentric to me and I'll be removing it from the list unless someone can come up with a reason for their inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.92.99 (talk) 22:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Rivers

Why aren't the rivers Kemi and Tornio listed? There are some shorter rivers currently on the list. Matti Nuortio, Oulu, Finland (talk) 23:52, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I've seen the same problem and just added Douro, Guadiana and Guadalquivir, all more than 600 km long and not tributaries of any other river. There is no criteria whatsoever (min. length, min. basin surface, min. discharge, main rivers or also tributaries...) on what rivers should be on this list, so we must agree on something to keep the list short (between 30 and 50). I'd go for a list with the 50 largest basins, indicating only the main river in each basin. No tributaries. --Iagocasabiell (talk) 16:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

River Drava is also not contained in Europe's top 50 longest rivers, although its lenth is 749 km, referring to the relevant Wiki page: https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr%C3%A1va — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.82.60.232 (talk) 11:30, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Wording in Lead

I have tried to change the wording in the lead to a more encyclopeadic phrase for the first sentence. However User:Alfie Gandon keeps reverting my change. The current first sentence is ' Europe is traditionally reckoned as one of seven continents' I changed it to 'Europe is traditionally stated to be one of the seven continents.' My change removes 'reckoned' a imprecise term that has more to do with numerical calculation or a best guess conclusion than the more precise and relevant to an encyclopeadia 'stated'. I also added the definite article 'the' because most sources state that there are seven continents I understand. Seems a no brainer to me. Please comment. Thanks. Robynthehode (talk) 19:00, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Your definition of 'reckoned' isn't the only one: [1] Alfie Gandon (talk) 19:49, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I would still disagree with using the term 'reckoned' for the reasons I stated. Your link doesn't change that fact. In fact the definition in your dictionary link states 'The action or process of calculating or estimating something' as the first listed definition and the second as ' A person's opinion or judgement'. Just too open to interpretation as to the meaning one is trying to convey to the reader. Why not just go with my change or something similar. Such a change will be less imprecise? My choice - 'Stated' - is clear reference to sources which is encyclopeadic. Robynthehode (talk) 20:33, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I disagree, and your wording's clumsy. Alfie Gandon (talk) 21:07, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

What is clumsy about my wording. You can't just say you disagree and make a statement of opinion without justifying your opinion. Robynthehode (talk) 21:14, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

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Peninsula of peninsulas

I've been aware of this neat description for a long time. To list some of them is appropriate but I don't think it helps to include some of the smaller ones - they have their place in their own articles and for example List_of_peninsulas#Europe - such things have a habit of growing beyond their original usefulness. cheers Geopersona (talk) 11:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC)