Talk:Sacred Harp

Christianity: Music B‑class Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
B	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Christian music (assessed as Mid-importance).

Roots music Mid‑importance

	Music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Roots music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to roots, folk and traditional folk music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Roots musicWikipedia:WikiProject Roots musicTemplate:WikiProject Roots musicRoots music articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Appalachia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Appalachia, a collaborative effort to increase coverage of Appalachia and the Appalachian Mountains. If you would like to participate, go to the project page to see a list of related articles needing attention.AppalachiaWikipedia:WikiProject AppalachiaTemplate:WikiProject AppalachiaAppalachia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Music/Music genres task force

Sacred Harp is within the scope of the Music genres task force of the Music project, a user driven attempt to clean up and standardize music genre articles on Wikipedia. Please visit the task force guidelines page for ideas on how to structure a genre article and help us assess and improve genre articles to good article status.Music/Music genres task forceWikipedia:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forceTemplate:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forcemusic genre articles

Archives

This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by when more than 4 sections are present.

Place of origin[edit]

I can see this was already addressed by a editor above, but it doesn't appear to have been fixed yet. It says that "the Sacred Harp tradition originated in the South". I think that is clearly incorrect, not even a matter of different perspectives. The shape notes and the whole tradition of singing masters and tune books started in New England and spread south, even as the Better Music Boys were making inroads in the urbanized North. The tradition remained in the South and then re-spread to the rest of the country, but the tradition clearly didn't originate there. The Sacred Harp itself was originally a later attempt at making the same sort of tune books that were previously published in the North, where most publishing activity took place in the early years of the US. AnnaGoFast (talk) 10:58, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Treble vs. Soprano[edit]

The term treble is linked to the article Soprano. These are completely distinct concepts. It's like if "buffalo" (where it referred to a chicken-wing flavor) were linked to the article on Bison. The information on "soprano voices" given in that article is completely misleading when one attempts to understand the vocal parts in Sacred Harp and allied traditions. It might be a good idea to have an article on "treble" in the shape-note sense of the term, but I'm not prepared to write one. I am, however, removing the link to "Soprano", as it can only mislead (and even cause altercations between skilled singers and newcomers who read up on the tradition (via Wikipedia) before showing up at a singing. --Haruo (talk) 15:20, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. "Treble" as used in the Sacred Harp tradition is totally different, being male and female voices an octave apart, and singing a supporting and harmonizing line, not the melody line, which is unlike almost all modern music (that I am aware of, but I am no expert, and can't speak for non-Western traditions). They are alike only in that they generally form the highest notes of any given harmony, but that's about all as far as similarity goes. The tenor line is sung in the same clef and also by both male and female voices an octave apart; the difference is that the tenor carries the melody and is usally, but not always, singing slightly lower notes than their male/female counterparts in the treble section.

However I'm not sure the difference is quite as significant as that between buffalo wings and bison. I think that unless someone is sure they can write an entire article on the subject of treble singers, what would be best is to add a section on trebles to the existing Soprano page, with the link bringing the reader directly to that section. Just my thoughts, since it seems like it'd be difficult to write an entire article on the subject of trebles alone, and it also seems that it'd only be fair to write a second article on tenors in Sacred Harp singing afterward, since they are as much different from the usual tenor group as trebles are from sopranos.

Idumea47b (talk) 07:42, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that at some point a paragraph be written on "the harmonic character" that results from having doubled voices in two parts. This would then be able to adequately how the parts are populated and sung. -- Mossymosquito (talk) 09:38, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Traditional oblong format"[edit]

The image showing the song Windham says it "shows the traditional oblong format". That may be technically correct, but its a little misleading as it makes a reader think that is is saying that "this is how the song Windham appears in the Sacred Harp". It is not. Windham is a single 4-staff song filling the botom half of a traditional oblong page. AS it is depicted here it would fill an entire page of the book. The caption is correct in that yes, a Sacred Harp page is laid out more or less like that, with two 4-staff brackets of music, but Windham is not written to fill the whole page when it can easily fits on a half page. A minor quibble. To my eye it seems like even that image is not quite as oblong as the Sacred Harp, being a bit too wide and tall, but I'd have to compare them next to each other to be sure.

Idumea47b (talk) 07:51, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source for footnote[edit]

I found the source of the quote "This notation was invented [...] Smith," which is currently quoted within footnote #9. The source is Warren Steel at https://home.olemiss.edu/~mudws/wyethnotes.html . However, I cannot figure out the coding for a reference within a note and hope that someone else will put it in. Rhetoricalray (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]