Wikipedia talk:Moving a page

Italian Renaissance sculpture

Help! - I directed this query to User:Anthony Appleyard, who has been my go-to expert on moving matters for over a decade, but he hasn't edited since February.

a) Does anybody know about this (AA)?

b) Can anyone help with the issue below?

c) Who is a good new person to ask in future on the things like this that I have, apparently every 3 months or so?

Hi Anthony, this has been a redirect (to the wrong article). I have a draft at User:Johnbod/IRS but am having trouble moving it in over the redirect. Wwwtty was supposed to be a temp stage, & has the redirect's history. Can you sort this? Many thanks! Johnbod (talk) 14:56, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I believe this should be fixed now. I've moved your draft to mainspace under the title Italian Renaissance sculpture and deleted the dummy page Wwwtty. (If this is not what you wanted, please let me know.) The sort of move you were attempting to do is much easier with the Page Mover permission (and easier still with admin tools). In the future, I would suggest listing a move like this at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests and an experienced user with these tools can help you out. (Or if you think you'd want to be doing lots of these moves in the future, you could request the Page Mover permission.) Colin M (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, yes. Though the history of the redirect has gone, but it was never more than a redirect. Best I don't attempt this stuff myself, I'm sure. Johnbod (talk) 03:52, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Btw, page mover wouldn't have been enough for this one. Johnbod (talk) 14:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

The usual way to preserve the history of a redirect when moving over it is to do a pageswap, but that's not going to work so well for a move like this, since it would result in the redirect's history living at a random userspace page. But I don't see why an editor wouldn't be able to perform a round-robin move like that in this case with just the page-mover perm. Colin M (talk) 15:24, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Renaming hundreds of articles

There are hundreds of articles about enzymes with titles that do not conform to IUBMB recommended names. For example, the article currently called "Muconolactone Delta-isomerase" should be "Muconolactone Δ-isomerase". (Some other examples are worse than that.) After trying to understand the relevant help page I thought at first that { {Correct title|reason=conform to IUBMB name|Muconolactone Δ-isomerase} } (without space between { and {) would change the name, but it doesn't. It produces a note:

The correct title of this article is Muconolactone Δ-isomerase. It appears incorrectly here due to technical restrictions.

That's a lot better than nothing, but it's not ideal. If the change needs to be made by an administrator that's fine for a single article, except that there are hundreds of similar examples, and I don't want to give an administrator the burden of doing them all.

On going back to the help page I realized that I had been reading the wrong section. So I tried Move, but that produced an error:

You do not have permission to Move, for the following reason:

The page "Muconolactone Delta-isomerase" cannot be moved to "Muconolactone Δ-isomerase" because the title "Muconolactone Δ-isomerase" matches an entry

But searching for Muconolactone Δ-isomerase tells me that no such page exists! Athel cb (talk) 13:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

@Athel cb: You've hit the title blacklist, which is designed to stop pages being created or moved to a title. We generally prefer to use characters in the Latin alphabet in titles, where at all possible, therefore spelling out letter names like "delta". Graham87 14:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for the information. In some cases people have written delta for Δ (not in the example I mentioned). I assume then it's OK to change delta to Delta? Athel cb (talk) 15:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

@Athel cb: I think so, if they're always capitalised in the general literature of the subject, but it'd probably be best to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Molecular Biology first. We tend towards less capitalisation in titles rather than more, but I'm not sure with a case like this. Graham87 08:42, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately in chemical terminology δ and Δ mean different things -- in this case very different things. One cannot use delta to mean Δ. I think the best thing is not to try to change the titles but to add notes to the text. Athel cb (talk) 08:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

This does indeed look to be down to the title blacklist: if I'm correctly reading the regexp there, it disallows moves to titles that contain mixed scripts (in this case, Latin + Greek). This doesn't mean such moves are technically impossible to do by the software (hence {{Correct title}} shouldn't be used), they can still be done by pagemovers or admins. I've just tried moving that article to Muconolactone Δ-isomerase and it worked (no opinion on whether that's correct: feel free to revert).

Athel cb, if you believe a large number of pages need to be renamed, then as suggested above, the best way forward is to start a discussion at the wikiproject (though if the proposed titles are going to involve Greek letters, better also the leave a notice at WT:AT as well, and if the changes are going to be on a large scale, better also have an WP:RfC to confirm the outcome of the informal discussion). Once there is solid consensus for a particular set of titles, you can move the pages yourself, and if you're technically prevented from doing so, you can ask for assistance at WP:RMT. An alternative to that is to have the discussion(s) via an RM (though that doesn't generally work very well when there's a large number of pages to be moved). – Uanfala (talk) 12:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

It's definitely titleblacklist. Almost ten years ago I moved a page (with my admin hat on) that others couldn't move, because of titleblacklist (Special:PermaLink/506724193#movereq-Delta_Opioid_receptor refers). I think one person subsequently objected, on the grounds that titleblacklist was a 100% embargo. I see that the page still hasn't been moved back, although a {{Lowercase}} is used to convert Δ to δ. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:29, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Moving a WikiProject

I'm on a Wikiproject (Wikipedia:WikiProject RuPaul's Drag Race) where it appears that a consensus has developed for changing the name of the project. We've discussed it informally and now with a formal "template:Requested move" and support there. I'm sure the close and move will be more complex than just moving a mainspace page. Is there anything else that needs to be done before the week is up?Naraht (talk) 20:51, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2022

The association recently went through a name change. The new name is American Association for Women in Radiology. We would like the change reflected accordingly. Thanks! AAWRNew (talk) 17:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@AAWRNew:  Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:06, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. It read it was partially protected and didn't know if the original author had to change it. Thanks! 12.106.125.106 (talk) 19:15, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Moving talk pages

When using Special:MovePage, and selecting Move associated talk page box, the talk page is moved, and a redirect is left on the old talk page title.

I strongly feel that this function should, instead of a redirect to the new talk page, leave Template:Talk page of redirect. This would be in addition to Template:R from move (which it already does).

However, I don't have any idea if this would be remotely popular, or how I'd propose it, so I'm asking for an admin's opinions. (please include {{ping|CityUrbanism}} in your response)  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 16:51, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

No, that would break inward links. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:53, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

@Redrose64: I don't really understand. Template:Talk page of redirect is already transcluded on 20758 talk pages of redirects.  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 09:26, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

That's only for talk pages that already have content (e.g. because the corresponding article was merged). Graham87 15:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@Graham87: Understood. But it's arguable that following a move, it's better to have a talk page with Template:Tpr than a talk page with #REDIRECT [[Talk:Blah blah]]. The redirect is still content.  – CityUrbanism 🗩 🖉 15:25, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Before the move, one or more discussions on the talk page may have been linked from elsewhere. If the talk page is then moved, the redirect ensures that those links still work. If the #REDIRECT [[...]] is removed, those links no longer reach the intended discussions: they are broken. For example, many page moves are preceded by a discussion on the talk page of the page that it is intended to move. If the discussion is closed as successful, the page move action will often have in its summary a link to that discussion so that people curious as to the reason why the move occurred will be able to find it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:57, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Updates needed

This page and Help:How to move a page seems to be slightly outdated on the "how to" because vector 2022. Text and images. But I'm not 100% sure what I see is what "Most users will find". My "Move" is under "Tools", right of the watchlist star. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:34, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, you are correct @Gråbergs Gråa Sång. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 20:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Moving an article with a talk page collision

I want to move an article following an RM discussion period (see here). The target is a redirect to the current title but it has a talk page, and that collides with the being-moved talk page. I don't see this covered in the project page. I'm an admin, but it's been a long time since I moved a page and I want to handle this properly; what is the accepted procedure here? I'm thinking that it might be best to manually incorporate the content of the target talk page into a subsection of the Requested move ... section on the talk page being moved before making the move. Advice solicited. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

@Wtmitchell: For this particular case I'd do a bit of history-swapping ... I'd move Balangiga massacre to somewhere like Balangiga Massacre (without a redirect, overwriting the history at that article and your comment at its talk page ... but you can history-merge that back in ... or maybe choose another redirect that's not so obvious), and then move Battle of Balangiga" to "Balangiga massacre. Doing the move this way would mean that your comment here makes sense. It's hard to generalise because there are several ways of dealing with talk page collisions depending on the situation. Graham87 15:46, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I had to put this aside as my day went on and other things needed attention. I think I'll be able to work out what I need to do from that once I get back to it. Cheers. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 16:35, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Well, ideally talk pages should stick to its parent article. In this case, the article's talk page must be brought over to match the current location of the article. However, I'm not sure what to do with the former redirect's talk page, because the redirect is now gone. I guess its content should be merged with the parent talk page, with necessary background (what moved and when), and the page be swapped. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 22:07, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

wp:common name

The discussion here may be of interest to some, as it raises some core questions as to wp:commonname. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:CCC9:7E7B:26A9:1834 (talk) 18:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of fixing your link. Graham87 03:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Talk page archives

When Mathematical modelling of infectious disease was moved to Mathematical modelling of infectious diseases, its talk archives did not move with it, and the header of the talk page no longer linked to the archives. I've now corrected this example.

I would like to add a prompt to this how-to guide advising people to look for such archives and move them as necessary (this would seem to be appropriate next to the instructions about changing the auto-archiving settings). But I'm not very experienced with moving pages so first wanted to check whether such archives should have been automatically moved by some other mechanism, or whether the manual check that I'm discussing is already discussed somewhere I haven't found. Thanks, Mgp28 (talk) 13:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Aidan9382-Bot is supposed to fix these sorts of things now (but that task wasn't active when the move had been made). The page Wikipedia:Moving a page doesn't mention auto-archiving settings but [[Wikipedia:Cleaning up after a move does, and I've made some tweaks there. Graham87 (talk) 00:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. That's very helpful. Mgp28 (talk) 00:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 6 November 2023

We would like to change "1079 Life" to "Life FM (Adelaide)" Startybartfast (talk) 05:04, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Liu1126 (talk) 11:13, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Moving pages that are inaccessible due to technical reasons?

How to move pages that are inaccessible due to technical reasons, i.e. they have certain patterns or characters that have at some point made them inaccessible? For example, BBC: On This Day and BBC: In Concert can't be accessed nor moved because they now redirect to the bbc: wiki. I guess they can be moved with Special:ApiSandbox but when I tried it in another wiki, it gave me an "invalid name" error message or something like that. Are there instructions anywhere how it's done? 2001:14BA:9C98:7100:7DDB:D27C:73FF:4061 (talk) 06:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

This isn't the first time this has happened, see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 207 § new fat: project conflicting with a couple English wiki article titles. It is possible to move it using the API, but you need page IDs, not titles, since the title will now be considered invalid for trying to obtain a page. The curids you list are the respective page IDs. Aidan9382 _(talk) 07:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I tried that but it gave me "Caught exception of type MediaWiki\\Page\\PageAssertionException". I'm not sure but maybe it's because I don't have the rights to move a page without leaving a redirect. 2001:14BA:9C98:7100:30AB:1C21:8949:959A (talk) 23:48, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

"Wikipedia:→" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia:→ has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 21 § Wikipedia:→ until a consensus is reached. Nickps (talk) 17:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)