Talk:Geelong Grammar School

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Prince of Wales[edit]

If the Prince of Wales realy did go to an Australisn grammar school instead of an English boarding school, this is more notable than most schools! Is there any more evidence about that? P Ingerson 09:35, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Geelong Grammar School is a public school in the English sense. In Australia the name Grammar School tends to be applied to church schools, esp. those of the Church of England.

Yes. I live nearby. He visited just recently also. See here and here (subscription required). -- Longhair | Talk 09:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. I work with someone who attended the Prince of Wales' talk to the school during his visit to Australia in March 2005. By this account (plus media coverage) he spoke well and was very 'familiar' rather than 'royal' in discussing his time at Timbertop/Geelong. Peter Ellis 23:43, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Public School[edit]

Article says "boarding and day-boarding public school". Isn't it a private school - the term used in Australia.

I've also heard it is one of the most expensive schools in Australia, is this true?

GGS has always preferred the use of public school, which although less used in Australia is none the less acceptable, indicating it is not privately owned.

The school's full name, Geelong Church of England Grammar School, and the history section clearly show that G.C.E.G.S. is not a state school.

Yes. Geelong Grammar is, by way of student tuition fees, the most expensive school in Australia. Its fees differs from year to year, and is often much higher than simmilar schools.

Actually, Geelong Grammar's fees are very competitive when you take into account the fact GGS is primarily a boarding school. Most comparisons between private schools in Melbourne and Sydney look at each school's day-student fee. In these tables, GGS is usually close to the top. But when you remember that a GGS "day-student" fee includes...

  • 2 full meals (lunch and dinner)
  • supervised evening study
  • afternoon sport and activities for every day of the week
  • higher teaching wages to compensate for all their extra time and effort
  • higher staff numbers to administrate everything

...then its really not so high after all. There are no 'similar schools'... GGS is the one of the only schools (if not the only one) which operates like this.

Geelong Grammar School remains more expensive than any other school in Australia, whether for day or boarding students.

Referencing[edit]

This article is not referenced because it has been written by students of the school from their own prior knowledge. All facts have been checked with the school archives.

That is not an excuse. Wikipedia has very firm policies regarding verifiability and original research; if school archives are being used as a source of information, then WP:CITE explicitly what books or materials were used, doing so in an encyclopedic fashion. Bahn Mi 10:07, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Headmaster reverts[edit]

Many reverts occur at this article, changing the current Headmaster between Stephen Meek and Hartley Mitchell. Which is correct? It's time to start enforcing blocks on persistant vandals if that's what indeed is occuring. -- Longhair 04:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The correct headmaster is Stephen Meek, Hartley Mitchell is the Housemaster of Manifold house. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.238.4.101 (talk • contribs) . Somebody has the history of co-education wrong. Girls were admitted to the school as GGS students in 1972 for forms 5 and 6 (years 11 & 12) under Tommy Garnett. The decision had nothing to do with Fisher as he wasn't headmaster until 1974. Fisher extended co-education to form 4 and below during his time. I was a (female) student there in 1973. Tommy Garnett was the headmaster. And I was not and never have been a student at Hermitage or Clyde. Please get your facts right so that you don't wrongly attribute things to Fisher.

The Big Birthday Bash[edit]

I have removed the section called 'The Big Birthday Bash', because

  1. It is a copyright violation (taken from the school's newsletter).
  2. It is unencyclopedic in nature, being a review of an event, and thus POV.

Cnwb 05:09, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Meek[edit]

Why does the section on Stephen Meek continualy get removed. The content is in fact encyclopedic and tru as it was writen by people who know [of] him? Some editor on this site are under some illusion that they are the most intellectual people on earth. Further more the reasons some editors give for removing FACTUAL information is absurd, such as "There was no information on the internet to support this". Really. May I remind those people that the internet is not the sole sorce of information in the world has. So why not post a discution about a disputed article insted of removing it straight away? —This unsigned comment was added by Kensington walther (talk • contribs) .

Wikipedia does not publish original research. We only material that is verifiably cited from reliable sources. Tom Harrison Talk 16:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of information[edit]

The school is building a $15,000,000 Wellbeing Centre to replace the Kennedy Centre. (refer to any recent publication) The Science Block is fireproofed with asbestos. (refer to 1960s Corians) The Hirschfeld Mack Centre is built in a modernist style (pioneered by the Bauhaus, of which Ludwig Hirschfeld Mack was a member) and does house photography labs and a recording studio. The Cook Theatre is used primarily for power-point presentations. Cuthbertson was an alcoholic largely because of his repressed homosexuality (see Light Blue Down Under by Weston Bate). All of this and more is clearly verified and not opinion so can people stop deleting it.

The material that User:203.19.252.190 keeps adding is not supported by reliable citations, may be defamatory, and includes sophomoric material like, "Built in stages until the 1930s the Cook Quad houses most of the school's Science Department and the Cook Theatre, used primarily for power-point presentations and other vital learning experiences." Tom Harrison Talk 15:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is supported by reliable citations (see above) and is not in any way defamatory.

It is the responsibility of the person adding information to add proper sources for information being added to any article. That means either the website address the information came from, the complete reference to the book it came from or the newspaper article. Until these can be provided, the information can (and will) be removed from the article. If you need help citing your sources properly, you can go to the link above or ask on the Talk page here. Fagstein 21:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More detailed bibliography added - just because something is not on the internet and therefore not quite so easily accessible does not mean that it is not referenced. If those editing this page have not checked these sources could they recommend changes here rather than deleting masses of information without any real knowledge of whether it is true or not.

It's up to you to prove that it's verifiable and supported by reliable sources. If you keep putting in unsourced allegations of homosexuality, snarky references to powerpoint presentations, and the rest of that nonsense, I'll ask another administrator to review the situation and consider blocking you from editing. Tom Harrison Talk 01:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Extra refernces were provided - maybe Tom Harrison should check them before deleting information. In any case where statements may seem ironic it was not intended. The statement that Cuthbertson was homosexual is sourced (Bate, Light Blue Down Under, O.U.P.) and would only be considered defamatory by a bigot - would it be considered defamation if it was claimed that Cuthbertson was a proud heterosexual? I think not and such is my point as to the clearly homophobic attitudes being demonstrated by some editors. A new version in which all sources can more easily be checked will be put up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.19.252.190 (talk • contribs) .

Wikipedia has a policy of no personnal attacks. If you again suggest I'm a bigot, or make any other ad hominem remarks, I will seek enforcement of that policy. Tom Harrison Talk 14:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was not intended as a personal attack, merely frustration at continued deletions - why has this information that has been modified to better conform with what Tom Harrison would seem to be suggest been deleted again? Can those doing it check the listed sources and explain deletions on this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.19.252.190 (talk • contribs) .

  • "Opened in 2004 and constructed in a mock-Bauhaus style, the HM Centre houses the school recording studio and photography lab. Its plan was conceived with an artistic absurdist/dadaïst logic."
  • "the Cook Theatre, used primarily for power-point presentations"
  • "It was designed with safety in mind and is completely fireproofed by its frame and roof being coated in asbestos-based retardents."
  • "Cuthbertson Health and Wellbeing Centre, heralding the turning of a new page in the school's tradition of the delivery of exceptional education. This centre will also include the Jennings Photography Centre and the Charles Fisher Driver Training Programme."

These additions appear to be an original syntheses of factoids chosen from school newsletters, and mixed with opinion. I think the best approach might be to contact representatives of the school and ask for their input. If your additions are factual and relevent, maybe they could provide better sources. Is it possible that you or I could get in touch with an archivist or librarian, or someone in the administration? Maybe they could provide a citation for "...conceived with an artistic absurdist/dadaïst logic." Tom Harrison Talk 14:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Dining Hall has been renamed, seemingly as part of the coed. celebrations.

Toffs[edit]

It is the opinion of the greater Australian public that this school only attracts the offspring of unimportant TOFFs. so why show any great interest in it?

Not true!

Whether it be true or not, is it the mob that should decide upon what is of value and what information or knowledge should be presented?

School Colours[edit]

It is my understanding that the official school colour is just the light blue, which started off as an Eton blue when the school was first founded.

History[edit]

The quote from the principal about GGS being Australia's best school is in my view POV and adds nothing to the section • Leon 19:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recent Changes[edit]

I noticed two additions, including one lengthy sentence relating to the proposed sports center, that require that this article be tagged. Renpaul 01:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 10:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The information provided on the campuses added is unsourced, does not add information that is either relevant or notable, and contains editorial comment that is not written from a neutral point of view. Wikipedia articles should not contain information that is subjective, or promotional commentary more suited to a brochure advertising the school. The banner on the article added by an independent source has also suggested the removal of some sections of this article, therefore I will be removing some of it today. Sheepunderscore (talk) 06:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I disagree with most of these criticisms and have reverted most of them. The History section certainly needs references, but on the whole I don't believe it carries a particularly promotional flavour. Aside from the history section, it's not perfectly, but not badly referenced. The deletion of the commentary about notable alumni is not justified - it appeared factual, although some elements (eg Packer "richest") should be referenced. Can you give examples where you think there is an advertising flavour? Murtoa (talk) 13:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment[edit]

I am rating this article as C class and high importance for the present based on the history and the alumni. You have started to work on your references but more needed to be added for the history section and in particular for the alumni claims. The article is missing information about the curriculum taught at the school and the extra-curricular activities offered. If the alumni claims can be properly proven and referenced then the school might well merit a top importance rating. Prince Charles was in fact education at Gordonstoun. I think he might have spent an exchange year at Geelong. Dahliarose (talk) 08:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ernie Tapai[edit]

Is it true that Ernie Tapai is the soccer coach? Axl ¤ [Talk] 07:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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