Talk:Jungle (board game)

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The elephant and the mouse (rat)[edit]

That's not right. The elephant cannot capture the rat. See the following link (in Chinese though) :

http://www.3wschool.cn/game/game_dsq.asp

Sorry I've reverted my edit. Looks like it's a different game. Still, that wasn't the way I used to play it (during childhood). It feels kind of strange that the elephant can capture anything - that makes it almost omnipotent. Another interesting link is as follows (also in Chinese):

http://www.t3d9.com/help/DouShouQi.htm

Defend with opposing elephant. Plus rat. --IHTS (talk) 07:30, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some unsettled problems[edit]

Mingxuan 09:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)someone please help me... if player A's own animal enter player A's own trap can the opponent "eat" the piece if opponent chess piece is stronger?[reply]

Possibly. There is debate on whether the player's trap squares act as a "safe" zone (protecting against attack) or not. - Parsa 19:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, per Bell's rules. --IHTS (talk) 07:27, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stratego and Jungle[edit]

DeweyQ, you're right that the Stratego reference needs a citation. The problem lies with the fact that Dou Shou Qi has very little written about it in English. I have a feeling that not even much is written in Chinese. Even the Chinese Wikipedia article on Jungle is pretty short. The Wiki article on Stratego mentions the relation between the games. However, there are no references given. The games are obviously similar, but finding viable references is difficult. - Parsa 09:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow gamers: Let me assure you that JUNGLE CHESS is not "Ancient Asian" in any way. Even Stratego is older. This is the problem of what I would call "bad scholarship" when it comes to putting things on Wiki. The History of Stratego has a closer relationship with "L'Attaque" then this game. Chinese Jungle Chess was not even among the games recorded by the great Stewart Culpin who was a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania who extensively traveled the east and created an encyclopedia of Oriental games from China, Japan, Korea, etc.. The Professors research was originally published in 1895. Jungle Chess is not included because it was a 20th century invention. Doesn't anyone even consult an Asian Cultural center regarding this material? -

Stewart Culpin's extensive collection of ALL asian games is still in the collection of the University of Pennsylvania museum. I suggest that before anyone makes such assumptions based on similarity, check which came first. Not every game in China is "Ancient". Also, many Asians don't know their own gaming history because these things are more of an oral history than recorded, and only Asian scholars who are authorities should be consulted regarding History. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.226.71 (talk) 20:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Right. (Bell says "modern Chinese game"; Parlett says "contemporary Chinese game".) --IHTS (talk) 07:26, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Piece hierarchy[edit]

I moved the Wolf above the Dog, since it's a stronger piece in the game (you can also tell from the starting positions, where Dog is opposite Cat, while Wolf is opposite Leopard).Archiesteel (talk) 17:56, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's WP:OR. I moved it back per sources. --IHTS (talk) 07:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Authority of rules given in article?[edit]

At present this article appears misleading. This game appears to be played with a wide variety of rules. See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/213118 for one example of a variation. There appears to be no "central authority" for this game. If there is one please list it and show why it is recognised as the world authority on this game.

Otherwise please include an acknowledgement of the "fuzziness" of this games rules in this article. 124.169.208.45 (talk) 13:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bell is used by Pritchard (encyclopedias & The Family Book of Games) and Parlett (The Oxford History of Board Games). --IHTS (talk) 07:23, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Name of game is Dou Shou Qi (not Shou Dou Qi)[edit]

[1] -- including post by Jean-Louis Cazaux, respected chess variant historian. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 08:56, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Leopard jump[edit]

This recent unsourced unexplained mobile edit by an IP user [2] changed

The leopard [...] cannot jump over a rat in the river, however.

into

The leopard [...] can jump over a rat in the river.

It's far from the only unsourced edit, and I cannot tell if this, or many other things in the article, is true or false, OR, or vandalism.--Nø (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison with Jun Qi/ Lu Zhan Qi[edit]

I have to object to claim that Dou Shou Qi is more like Luzhanqi than Stratego. For a start they all bare significant resemblances. But Dou Shou Qi is the odd one out not having hidden pieces. The boards of Dou Shou Qi and Stratego are much more similar. The only real similarity between Dou Shou Qi and Luzhanqi (above and beyond the family resemblance) is the fact that Dou Shou Qi uses Chinese characters (sometimes). But that is a purely superficial resemblance.

Of course the resemblances between Dou Shou Qi and Stratego may be accidental, but they are there. In any case it is unsourced and is clearly disputable so I think it should go. Slimy asparagus (talk) 17:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison with Jungle King[edit]

The game is almost identical to Jungle King, a British game from the 1950s. I have owned a copy of this game since about 1965. It is still complete with board, pieces and rules. It's not clear to me which came first, this British game or the Chinese one. I've added a mention and a reference to a museum copy. Neil Mayhew (talk) 20:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Neil Mayhew I found and added a secondary source on the similarity between the two games (book found through Google Books), though there is a conflict between this source and yours because while the museum page says Jungle King is from the 1950s, the book says it's from the 1960s: "The first publication of such a game in the West was given in English by R.C. Bell, in 1960, describing a game he had received from Hong Kong. Shortly thereafter (ca. 1963), a version named Jungle King was published by Waddingtons in the United Kingdom." It would be great if there are additional sources but in the meantime I've gone with the dating from the book. Fiwec81618 (talk) 06:25, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think you've taken the right approach. I checked my copy of the game to see if there's a copyright date or any other date-related information but unfortunately there isn't. I could upload pictures of the box, pieces and rules if anyone thinks that would be useful. Neil Mayhew (talk) 04:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]