Talk:Iyer

Karma or Reservation Policy

Now the entire Tamil Brahmin community,particularly the Iyer community, is a beleaguered community in Tamilnadu. Popular reasoning is that they are being made to atone for the sins they committed on the other communities in the past Karma. Majority find it comfortable to deport themselves to escape the wrath of the violent anti - Brahmin regime of all the parties that come to power in the State of Tamilnadu. Even the God has cursed them and the curse is that the communities will have everything like School, Colleges, Hospitals, Mutt, Corporate houses etc to them not serving them. The most intellectual of this community are those talking derogatory of the community to ensure respectability for the others. The lofty ideals of their way of life cannot now be followed by them due to the prevailing system that drives them to alienate themselves from any ideals for their life.

This has to be discussed because in a forum seeking Reservation for Brahmins, it is the Brahmins who voice opinion against it.

Sailapathi (talk) 03:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)Sailapathi

Wikipedia is not a blog. Kindly don't put your political or social opinions here.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 02:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Message for Ravichandar

Hi,

Please remove reference to "Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy". According to Wikipedia policies, Wikipedia should not be used for political purposes. The statements from that politicians who oppose Iyers and seek to marginalize them, should not be published. Also refer some court cases against him before polluting wikipedia. thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gvivek2004 (talk • contribs) 14:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

You have mentioned this:
(rm claim. The paper does not refer to any particular communities)

and have deleted the mention of community names from the below:

A 2007 study revealed that Iyers and Iyengars formed a separate cluster along with the high-ranking non-Brahmin communities of Tamil Nadu such as Ambalakarar and Veerakodi Vellalars .
Kindly note the neighbour-joning tree on page 4 of the paper showing affinity with Veerakodi Vellalar, which in turn shows affinity with Amabalakarar. The study was to compare Mukkalathor communities with those of Iyers, Iyengars on one end, and Pallans and Vanniyars on the other end. Also note the gene flow amongst communities in the outliers in the heterozygosity vs distance diagram on page 6. The study noted the communities mentioned in the outliers as having higher than predicted heterozygosity. On the same page 6 you can find this mentioned:
The two Brahmins (Iyer and Iyengar) alongwith the high rank non-Brahmin formed a separate cluster.....The highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar and low rank non-Brahmin – Ambalakarar are the outliers of the above cluster...

Since the paper does mention the name of the community specifically as "highrank non-Brahmin group – Veerakodi Vellalar", I am therefore reinstating the mention of the Veerakodi Vellalar in the page. --= No ||| Illusion = (talk) 18:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)Mayasutra

Hi Ravichandar The "practice" of Madi is described but it fails to link it to the practice of untouchability (which is where it finds its roots). Madi is still not diminished, in many Iyer homes, lower castes are still allowed entry into the prayer room, women are considered "impure" during their periods, vessels used by NBs are washed. These practices are very much prevalent amongst practising priests of the Iyer caste. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.235.133 (talk) 15:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

References

This Article Sucks

This article sucks. The outline sucks, there are too many sections, there is too much random information. Why can't it be done properly like any other article on a any other community? This whole Aryan origin stuff is also pointless - this is an Encyclopedia, and until there is evidence that Iyers are Aryans, it should not be included. A very brief mention of the politics of it can be made lower down, but this article is seriously nonsense. It sounds like a hotheaded politically inclined Iyer and non-Brahmin Tamilian have made this article; it looks like a compromise between two retards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.106.213 (talk) 18:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, of course, we ought to imbibe this article with extensive ultra-casteist propaganda like the other caste-related articles on Wikipedia. Anyway, since you find so many drawbacks in this article, why don't you create an account yourself and edit it. This article has 200+ citations, mind you, not one or two but 200. Now could you atleast find a single caste-related article in Wikipedia with so many sources. -The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 05:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I've only referred about 50-odd books to write this article. Too little, perhaps! I hope this All-Knowing genius might be able to enlighten us with some useful knowledge on the Iyer community.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 05:25, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I personally thinking as an Iyer myself that this article could do away with the criticism portion and merge it with a greater article tamil brahmins overall are just a traditional community and ethnicity. 108.39.84.90 (talk) 01:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

You can insult me all you want. But the fact remains that this article sucks balls. It really looks like it's been written by politically inclined retards. This article will never get a star rating... ever. It needs a total revamp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.5.210 (talk) 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh no mister! I am not abusing you. I can very well understand that you are exceptionally great person from the way you contemptuously discard this article as "worser than articles on other Indian communities". But you see, I cannot recognize your abilities unless you could show them in "improving" this article.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 15:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

This article is cheap propaganda written with personal agenda by Non-Iyer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.135.110.2 (talk) 17:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

well, the article is very bad. It's still not as bad as "articles on other Indian communities", but that isn't saying much. I have no idea what the GA tag is doing on this page.

The article needs to get its act together, stop bickering over racial/genetics red herrings, and instead give information on this population group in a detached manner, without "shrouded in mystery" and similar hilarities. --dab (𒁳) 15:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Sub-Sects grouping

The grouping of subsects is perfectly in accordance with Edgar Thurston, and to a lesser extent, Castes in Indian Politics and Jogender Nath Bhattacharya. This sort of alphabetical group of sections or sub-sections (which, of course, don't comprise a list) are unnecessary and disruptive, almost akin to vandalism. -The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 16:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Origin stories

I reviewed the first paragraphs about the origins including the lead paragraph. Notice, that almost every reference regarding "Ayya" = "Arya" as well as North Indian name associations are critically violating against the quality sources guidelines. Such important information doesn't need random website articles, but well reviewed and respected books by all parties. Actually one or two of these references were real books and I googled for "THE EVOLUTION OF AN ETHNIC IDENTITY — The Tamils in Sri Lanka" and I found a review by The Hindu. Another book "The land of the Permauls, or, Cochin, its past and its present By Francis Day" (google scholar) didn't give me any information about Iyers or Bhattar's. I'm ignoring now the random websites, which look simply aweful. Some references were also attributed to the wrong sentence like in the Arya Ayya sentence, where infact no reference was found about Arya. I understand, that this is not merely a coincidence, but possibly an attempt to make the Iyers look as pure Aryans, while their mothertongues were Dravidian for many centuries. We will only know more about it, when we get proper sources. Needless to say, that the paragraphs should be reviewed sentence by sentence, word by word by experienced users. --Neutralpointofyou (talk) 17:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Since, despite the fact that you are new to Wikipedia, yet you make such lofty discourses on "quality sources guidelines", I would like to know whether you are actually aware of Wikipedia's expectations. And of course, the book by Francis Day does speak about Bhattars or Putters, see here and this. And the other sources are also pretty okay. There have been plenty of books referred to for the sake of this article.

And then, of course, I agree with you that all Iyers need not necessarily be non-Dravidian. Neither has it been claimed anywhere in the article that Iyers were all Indo-Aryans without exception. The article only chronicles individual waves of Brahmin migrations to the Tamil land. And just because there is evidence of migration of sufficient numbers of Iyers to Tamil Nadu from outside, it does not mean that they are all Indo-Aryans by race. Most proven migrations have, after all, been from the Telugu country; in fact, a fairly large proportion of Tamil people are actually migrants from the present-day Andhra Pradesh, including Naickers, Reddiyars, etc. How come does this mean that they are Indo-Aryans? And are Iyers the only people who had migrated to Tamil Nadu from non-Tamil lands?-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 14:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

As for the Ayya-Arya thing, it has been clearly explained. A sufficient minority believes that the word Ayya is derived from the Sanskrit Arya and the fact is mentioned here in accordance with Wikipedia's neutrality policy which you claim to enforce. And even if this derivation is indeed true, then please keep in mind that the word Arya or its derivatives weren't used to denote Indo-Aryans alone, neither does the article claim that Iyers were Indo-Aryans because of that. Take for example, the Arya Vaishyas from Andhra Pradesh. Can you say for sure that they are Indo-Aryans basing your claims solely upon their caste-name alone! There have been various derivatives of the word Arya used in parts of India in order to address people in a respectful manner. Take for example, the -ar suffix which people append to their caste-names; a Mudali is respectfully addressed to as "Mudali-ar" and a Chetti is respectfully addressed as "Chetti-ar". Though I am not a professional linguist, I still feel that these suffixes might very well have been derived from the word "Arya". -The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 15:16, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi! You are following the wrong path. We should'nt do own researches about Ayya-Arya but give proper references for this. Historians might think, that this is related together, but there must be a good source for it. That's the only thing, I'm asking for. The various websites don't provide the quality I'm asking for, that's it. Someone must find books or scientific journals for this kind of claims. Of course I know the different meanings of Arya, but this is not the issue here. However, I don't think that the -ar issue has something to do with arya at all. I think this is nonsense.

I would like to inform you, that in the recent past, there was a nature issue, which has neglected the theory of Aryan and Dravidian human races. The whole country was mixed 40 thousands years ago with 2 different populations. This article doesn't provide these new findings. Instead it's talking about "little difference among Tamils" when there is infact "no real difference in whole India". Maybe the genetics section needs to be rewritten in the near future. --Neutralpointofyou (talk) 17:53, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Aryan invasion/migration during the time of Raja Raja Chola??????

Is this editor trying to crack a joke?????-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 16:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

HLA affiniities shows Iyers are descendents of central asia http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/5220/brahmin_dna_study1.htm

The page is currently not accessible. Besides none of the "sources" you used mentioned the word "Iyer" at all. Please don't try to convertr Wikipedia articles into propaganda pieces or add your own original research. If you wish to use a portion of the webspace for projecting your own beliefs, try creating a blog of your own. Wikipedia is not a place to add nonsense.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 04:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

References

Revert

I have reverted multiple edits by Jaggi81 (talk · contribs) as they removed long standing sourced content, and added dubiously sourced content like Iyers came from Arya, referencing it to etymologyonline for the word Aryan and so on. Unless some clear evidence is presented by the editor that the content doesn't belong in this article, it should not be removed. -SpacemanSpiff 02:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

User:Jaggi81 is a long-time vandal who indulges in persistent racist POV-pushing. See here. -The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 05:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Do have a look at the blog he frequently provides as a source. Must be a P. N. Oak-kinda joker :D-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 05:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

He has been blocked for a week now. I just noticed that. -SpacemanSpiff 05:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I am beginning to smell a rat here. User:Neutralpointofyou protested against the inclusion of claims that Tamil Brahmins migrated from outside and I replied by explaining that a large number of Tamil Brahmins could have migrated from Andhra Pradesh. Now, User:Jaggi81 claims that Telugu people were Aryans and hence Tamil Brahmins were also Aryans. Could Jaggi81 be a strawpuppet of Neutralpointofyou.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 06:01, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I can assure you, that I'm not a sockpuppet of anyone. All I said was, that there is a new study out there about the origins of the Indian people. I have not denied any possible outside Tamil Nadu origin of the Iyers, only the outside India origin. --Neutralpointofyou (talk) 17:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I had modified the entry on Iyer genetics using as reference a paper on the subject, which was then removed by SpacemanSpiff on the context of not providing reference - despite the fact that I had. Care to explain? --Coolian (talk)

You should read the edit summary. -SpacemanSpiff 15:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Aiyars and aryans

There was no concept of Brahmins in dravidian society, ie no caste based on Varna. This is imported from aryan system. Brahmins of TN are different from dravidians. Its evident from their traditiosn, skin colour and exxessive use of sanskrit in their dialects. Anyone have more information on this? can we discuss? Vvmundakkal (talk) 08:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I am getting reference to prove that Aiyar derived from Aryan or aryar

http://books.google.com/books?id=FL0OAAAAIAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr=

http://books.google.com/books?id=rMfWAAAAMAAJ&q=Aryan+aiyar&dq=Aryan+aiyar&lr= Vvmundakkal (talk) 08:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

If this is the case, then Tamil Kshatriyas are also outsiders. As far as traditions, skin colour and usage of Sanskrit are concerned, Iyers do not differ much from Saiva Mudaliars or other forward-caste Tamil people. Do I need to show you pictures of Jayanthi Natarajan, M. Karunanidhi, etc.

Your crap doesn't belong here simply because it is blatant propaganda. And if there was no concept of Brahmins in "ancient" Tamil society it does not imply that there had not been the admission of people of other communities as Brahmins.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 14:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I heard that they(Palakkad Iyers) were also known as Arya Pattar in kerala. I also believe they are descendents of Aryan migrants from North IndiaTn pillai

There were also Arya Vaishyas. The kings of Jaffna were called Arya Chakravarthi. The Nayak kings of Ettaiyapuram had the surname "Aiyan".

If we are to go by your logic, more than half of Tamil Nadu's population is made of "Aryans" from outside.

Ravi(Office of the secret service), i am not here with any propaganda, nor i am interested much in these subjects. Wikipedia is the place to share authentic information, not to give someone's personal views to the world. The tamil and prakrit Word Ayya is equivalent to Sanskrit Arya, there are tens of authentic references for that. please refer below links

http://books.google.com/books?q=Ayya+sanskrit&btnG=Search+Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=A1JuAAAAMAAJ&q=Ayya+sanskrit&dq=Ayya+sanskrit

http://books.google.com/books?id=vcwUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA98&dq=Ayya+sanskrit#v=onepage&q=Ayya%20sanskrit&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=APVtAAAAMAAJ&q=Ayya+sanskrit&dq=Ayya+sanskrit

So, if i go by your words,authors of all these books will have same propaganda. I am not sure whether you know or not, in north india also the surname ayya was in use.

Regarding colour, I did not all Aiyars were fair and looking good. What i intended to says comparatively, ie, majority, are fair. That doesnt mean all other upper caste people are not fair. Its just comparative observation.

And regarding entire Tamil population of TN, it doesn't imply that all were true Dravidian or Tamils. This is the case with most of states or races in india. Migrations and cross migration were common. This is also evident in other parts of the world. Simhalization has caused many Tamils started using simhala as their 1st language in Simhala dominated areas of Lanka. And vice versa in tamil dominated areas. Another example Jews of Cochin, Knanaya chsristians or travancore, both were migrants from central asia, now uses malayalam as 1st language. That doesnt means most of tamilians in TN are not tamils. In fact Tamils are one of the rare race which share almost similar cultural and linguistic among its subgroups or caste. However Aiyars are different story.

When Buddhism was in its peak in South India, the religion and its belief were always denoted with Aryan or ayyan. Ayyappan or arya appan means aryan god or buddhist god. Another name of ayyappan is sastha is also the name of Buddha. Dharma saranam of buddhism is also referred in Ayyapan's devotees vindicate the notion that Ayyappan was buddhist god

I wanted re-factor my 1st post.There were no concept called Brahmans in south Indian society or Dravidian society before the arrivals of vishnavaite missionaries from north. These people were Aryans who settled in south india and propogated their religion. Their descendants are Aiyars/Aiyankars in Tamil, Bhats in in Canara.Migration to kerala happened in 10th and 12th centuries and they mixed with local buddhist monnks, sill, they more of Aryan blood by race.

These my observations and comments , some with solid references, not a propaganda. If you dont like these just ignore. Thanks

Vvmundakkal (talk) 13:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvmundakkal (talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for clarifying. But your argument on basis of etymology is not at all convincing. Firstly, are you aware that there is a sub-sect of Vadama Iyers called Thummagunta Dravida. There is also a sect of Telugu Brahmins called Aaraama Dravidulu closely related to the Vadama. There is also a subsect of Brahacharanam Iyers called Puthur Dravida who had settled down in Puttur in Andhra Pradesh. Rahul Dravid's ancestors were originally Tamil Brahmins from Tanjore. To this day, Andhra Brahmin society is divided into Vaidikis, Niyopgi and Dravidas of whom the Dravidas are exclusively made of migrants from Tamil Nadu. So, your Ayya=Arya hypothesis does not automatically lead to the conclusion that Iyers are Aryans by race.

And then, Brahmins existed in Tamil Nadu long before the rise of Vaishnavism which happened in the eleventh century during the time of Ramanujacharya. There have been references to Brahmins in classics of the Sangam period albeit few. Though I would not rule out the possiblity that some Iyers were indeed migrants from the north, not all were. There is stronmg evidewnce to back this up. Your hypothesis that Tamil Brahmins are all Aryans just because the varna system is of Aryan origin is as erratic as claiming that all Indian knights were Britons just because the concept of knighthood was introduced in India by the British.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 14:51, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome to have your view and to share it with others, however there are some flaws. Firstly, Ayyappa may be derived from "Arya", but is by no means evidence for a Buddhist shrine. There is no evidence at all to show that Sabarimala was a Buddhist shrine, either archaelogically or historically. Ayya was used as a term of respect, since Arya mean "Noble". Also, the term "Sharanam", which is the main evidence put forward for a Buddhist influence, is moreso a result of the Bhakti movement, which preached Sharanagati (surrender to the Lord) Secondly, the Vaishnava movement gained strength only in the 12th century with Ramanujacharya, and the Bhakti movement of the time. There are mentions of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu from the Sangam Age, about 300BC, and could well have existed in Tamil Nadu before that itself. Thirdly, migration to Kerala and Canara occurred well before the 12th century, since Adi Shankaracharya (born a Kerala Brahmin) lived in the 7th century. There is also no proof of settlement in Kerala by Brahmins, and their unique practices of Shrauta, have set them apart from other Brahmins. At the end of the day the fact is there is no solid proof of migration to Tamil Nadu, by either Aryans or Dravidians. As well there is no proof of an Aryan race, which is in itself an outdated concept. By all means, express your views, but please find evidence before presenting your views as actual fact.58.165.6.47 (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I have provided enough references to link Aryan and Aiyer. Please dont deny that. FYI, the present dravidian race, south indians, never called themselves dravidians. They were identified by differently. the word dravida was used by arayn brahmins of north to address the brahmins of south, the panchadravida bramins, later used to res the whole south indians. btb, in marathi community also there are brahmins and SCs with dravid as surname.

I have not observed that there were no brahmins before 10/12 century. But the migration happened during that time and mixed with some budhist monks and already setteled brahmins(as per keralolpathi, some mukkuvars also given brahmin status. These mix ups could be the reason why brahmins of kerala are different from other bramins). Brahmin migration was continuous when different kingdom promoted it. This is the case with TN and other states. Stronger brahmin influence came when there is mass migration and strong support from local kings.

Sabari mala temple customs and belief are very much different from other major temples in kerala. There are many evidence which is currently unearthed to point that sabari mala shrine is buddist vihara. Vvmundakkal (talk) 14:17, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Migosh! How many times do I need to tell you that the "titular Aryan" need not be an "ethnic Aryan"! As for your claim that Marathi Dalits have the surname "Dravid", could you please provide sources. You claim to possess extensive evidence but the only "evidence" you've provided until now is to prove that the word "Ayya" is related to "Arya", nothing else. And as for the usage of the word "Dravida", aren't you aware of the Dravida kingdom, or even that the term "Dravida" is etymologically related to the word "Tamil".-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 17:30, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk with references please. The brahmins of Kerala, the Namboothiris are probably the purest of all the brahmins castes in India due to their ridiculous rules and strict marital systems. I have never heard of Mukkuvars given brahmin status, reference please. Quote "Castes and Tribes of South India" on the Nambuthiri brahmans, book 5 page 157:

He is perhaps, as his measurements seem to prove, the truest Aryan in Southern India, and not only physically, but in his customs, habits, and ceremonies, which are so welded into him that forsake them he cannot if he would.--Jack.Able (talk) 07:33, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent Edits on Gurukkal and some small changes in presentation of a paragraph on Origin

I have made some recent edits with a clear sense of purpose and based on well known and accepted evidences 1. The moment we include Gurukkals as Iyers we talk about Adi-Saiva Brahmins and not just Smarthas 2. That Link to an Aryan Origin, brings us close to Aryan theory and we dont need to give a detailed treatment in first paragraph as it is explained in much detail later in article and in the provided links within wikipedia and elsewhere. But what caused me to first change this paragraph is the use of the term popular tradition- Can something be a tradition just because it is only 50-100 years old. Imagine the consequence today informed readers know that the theories are only as old as 100 years or little more. But 50 years from now with repeated usage of such theories it could easily be assumed that it much older.So use of word opinion takes into account anything that can be classsified tradition and otherwise. Among other changes I have made, the evidence to the opposite that Iyers are not always North Indians comes from a genetic study that in general all Tamil Populations and castes have received gentic inflow from castes and populations from other regions of the country. This is sufficient to show that there is an evidence to discredit the opinion - Iyers are North Indians and other tamilians are pure south Indian because what we have is a generous intermingling of various castes. Furthermore if people want to still talk about no brahmin dravidians being somehow more tamil than others, we are still left with a very funny situation. That Nadars and other secluded tribes of Tamil Nadu can indeed be considered very ancient to this part of the country. At the same time these tribes were traditionally not among the best speakers of classical tamil, and as such there is no evidence of that, inspite of the tall claims being made by Nadars. The Nadar Tamil can usually best desribed as Nadar Tamil, which is very different from classical Tamil. Needless to say purely unmingled populations of Tamil Nadu are very small in number. --Harishsubramanian (talk) 13:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Sources - self published, non-verifiable, etc

I'm looking for credible sources that say Brahmins should abstain from alcohol. There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:

1. Universal History, page 104
2. Doniger

I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?

Other sources that may possibly have problems:

1. No page number -- Alexander Csoma de Kőrös. (1832). Journal of the Asiatic Society. Indian Asiatic Society. ISBN 9630538229.
2. Self published -- R. Nagaswamy. "Nataraja and Vedic concepts as revealed by Sekkilar". Tamil Arts Academy. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
3. Mytho-history or pseudo-history -- K. D. Abhyankar (2005). "Folklore and Astronomy: Agastya a sage and a star" (PDF). Current Science. 29 (12).
4. Self published -- Dr. Koenraad Elst (2003). "The Politics of the Aryan Invasion Debate". Voice of India. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
5. Self published -- "Sripada Ramanujacharya". New Zealand Hare Krishna Spiritual Resource Network. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
6. Broken -- K. Balakrishnan, R. M. Pitchappan, K. Suzuki, U. Sankar Kumar, K. Tokunaga (1996). "HLA affinities of Iyers, a Brahmin population of Tamil Nadu, South India". Wayne State University Press. Retrieved 2008-08-19.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
7. Self-published -- Chander Kanta Gariyali, I. A. S. "Dikshitars". chennaionline.com. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
8. Self published -- "Definition of the word gotra". Retrieved 2008-08-19.
9. Self published -- "Gotra". gurjari.net. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
10. Self published -- "Shakha". www.dharmicscriptures.org. Retrieved 2008-09-10.
11. -- Should be called legendary origin or something like that. It is not a correct anthropological account, just legend. P. K. V. Kaimal (2000). We lived together Volume 3 of Monograph series. Pragati Publications. p. 18. ISBN [[Special:BookSources/8173070628, ISBN 978-81-7307-062-4|8173070628, '"`UNIQ--templatestyles-00000030-QINU`"'[[ISBN (identifier)|ISBN]] [[Special:BookSources/978-81-7307-062-4 |978-81-7307-062-4]]]]. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); templatestyles stripmarker in |isbn= at position 13 (help)
12. The caption provided for this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Madras_Kappi.jpg] seems to be a WP:SYN violation.

-Zuggernaut (talk) 19:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Iyer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

There are two sources in this article that are cited claiming that Brahmins are required to abstain from alcohol. These are:

1. T. Osborne, C. Hitch, A. Millar, John Rivington, S. Crowder, B. Law & Co, T. Longman, C. Ware (1765). The Modern part of an universal history from the Earliest Account of Time, Vol XLIII. London: Oxford University., page 104 - Source has no reference to avoidance of alcohol
2. Doniger, Wendy; Brian K. Smith (1991). The Laws of Manu. Penguin Books. ISBN 0140445404. - No page number provided

I looked at the first source and I'm probably looking in the wrong place but this source seems completely irrelevant - it is about Armenia, Turkey and Persia. The exact page numbers are not given for the 2nd source. Can anyone help?

Other sources that may possibly have problems:

1. Alexander Csoma de Kőrös. (1832). Journal of the Asiatic Society. Indian Asiatic Society. ISBN 9630538229. - No page number provided
2. R. Nagaswamy. "Nataraja and Vedic concepts as revealed by Sekkilar". Tamil Arts Academy. Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources

1. K. D. Abhyankar (2005). "Folklore and Astronomy: Agastya a sage and a star" (PDF). Current Science. 29 (12). WP:Sources
2. Dr. Koenraad Elst (2003). "The Politics of the Aryan Invasion Debate". Voice of India. Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources
3. "Sripada Ramanujacharya". New Zealand Hare Krishna Spiritual Resource Network. Retrieved 2008-08-19.
4. Broken -- K. Balakrishnan, R. M. Pitchappan, K. Suzuki, U. Sankar Kumar, K. Tokunaga (1996). "HLA affinities of Iyers, a Brahmin population of Tamil Nadu, South India". Wayne State University Press. Retrieved 2008-08-19.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) WP:Sources
5. Chander Kanta Gariyali, I. A. S. "Dikshitars". chennaionline.com. Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources
6. "Definition of the word gotra". Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources
7. "Gotra". gurjari.net. Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources
8. "Shakha". www.dharmicscriptures.org. Retrieved 2008-09-10. WP:Sources
9. P. K. V. Kaimal (2000). We lived together Volume 3 of Monograph series. Pragati Publications. p. 18. ISBN [[Special:BookSources/8173070628, ISBN 978-81-7307-062-4|8173070628, '"`UNIQ--templatestyles-0000003D-QINU`"'[[ISBN (identifier)|ISBN]] [[Special:BookSources/978-81-7307-062-4 |978-81-7307-062-4]]]]. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); templatestyles stripmarker in |isbn= at position 13 (help) Should be called legendary origin or something like that. It is not a correct anthropological account, just legend.
10. The caption provided for this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Madras_Kappi.jpg] WP:SYN violation.
11. "Iyer". Uttarakhand Information Centre. Retrieved 2008-08-07. WP:Sources
12. Vikas Kamat. "List of Brahmin communities". Kamat's Potpourri. Retrieved 2008-08-27. WP:Sources
13. "sects". hinduism.co.za. Retrieved 2010-02-14. WP:Sources
14. "Subsects". keralaiyers.com. Retrieved 2008-08-27. WP:Sources
15. "Brief history of Ashtagrama". Ashtagrama Iyer community website. Retrieved 2008-08-27. WP:Sources
16. "History of Kerala iyers and Agraharams accessdate=2008-08-27". Kuzhalmanna Agraharam website. {{cite web}}: Missing pipe in: |title= (help) WP:Sources
17. "Migration Theories". keralaiyers.com. Retrieved 2008-08-19. WP:Sources
18. "The Sixteen Samskaras Part-I" (PDF). August 8, 2003. Retrieved 2008-08-27. WP:Sources
19. "Names of Samskaras". Retrieved 2008-08-27 publisher=kamakoti.org. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help); Missing pipe in: |accessdate= (help) WP:Sources
20. Rajagopala Ghanapatigal. "Jatha karma". http://www.subhakariam.com/samskara/jatakarma.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-02. Self published
21. "Upanayanam". gurjari.net. http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Mystica/html/upanayanam.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-02. Self published
22. Neria Harish Hebbar (March 2, 2003). "Customs and Classes of Hinduism". Boloji Media Inc.. http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/047.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-02. Self published
23. "Transition Rituals". Beliefnet Inc.. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/78/story_7894_2.html. Retrieved 2008-09-02. Self published
24. "Tharpanam". vadhyar.com. http://www.vadhyar.com/Tarpanam.php. Retrieved 2008-09-02. Self published
25. David M. Knipe. "The Journey of a Lifebody". Hindu Gateway. http://www.hindugateway.com/library/rituals/. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
26. "Avani Avittam". K.G.Corporate Consultants. http://www.panchangam.com/avani.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
27. Padma Vaidyanath. "A South Indian Wedding – The Rituals and the Rationale". Sawnet. http://www.sawnet.org/weddings/tamil_vedic.html. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
28. The Practice of madi". ICSI Berkeley. http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~snarayan/anthro-pap/subsection3_4_1.html. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
29. Raghavan Jayakumar. "Popularity of Carnatic music". karnatik.com. http://www.karnatik.com/article001.shtml. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
30. N. Raghunathan. "The Hindu Attitude Towards Vegetarianism". International Vegetarian Union. http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc57/souvenir/raghunathan.html. Retrieved 2008-08-27 Self published
31. N. Raghunathan. "The Hindu Attitude Towards Vegetarianism". International Vegetarian Union. http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc57/souvenir/raghunathan.html. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
32. Bombai Srinivasan. "The Goal and the Guide, Petal 3:Fire Walking". Sri Satya Sai Baba Website. http://www.saibaba.ws/teachings/goalguide/goalguide03.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-27. Self published
33. TAMIL: a language of India. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, 14th Edition. 2000. http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_language.asp?code=TCV. Retrieved 2008-09-03. Self published
34. Hebbar, Neria Harish (February 2, 2003). "Tulu Language: Its Script and Dialects". Boloji Media Inc.. http://www.boloji.com/places/0020.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-10 Self published
35. Lingua. keralaiyers.com. http://www.keralaiyers.com/lingua. Retrieved 2008-09-10. Self published
36. K. Nambi Arooran (1980). "Caste & the Tamil Nation:The Origin of the Non-Brahmin Movement, 1905-1920". Tamil renaissance and Dravidian nationalism 1905-1944. Koodal Publishers. http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/nambi.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-03. No page number Self published
37. V. Thangavelu. "Brahmins and Eelamists". ambedkar.org. http://www.ambedkar.org/News/hl/Brahmins%20and%20Eelamists.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-19. Self published
38. Tension at Chidambaram temple. Web India 123. March 2, 2008. http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20080302/899005.html. Retrieved 2008-09-06 Self published
39. P. Chidambaram Pillai. "THE RIGHT OF TEMPLE ENTRY" (PDF). http://www.evrperiyar-bdu.org/downloads/templeentry.pdf. Retrieved 2008-07-19. Self published
40. V. Sundaram, I. A. S., Retd. (2007). "Aryan vs Dravidian — Lord Rama vs E V Ramaswamy ???". India Varta. http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column42.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-19. Self published
41. Gail Omvedt. "The Dravidian movement". ambedkar.org. http://www.ambedkar.org/gail/Dravidianmovement.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-19. Self published
42. Sachi Sri Kantha (1992). "Part 8: The Twin Narratives of Tamil Nationalism". Selected Writings by Dharmeratnam Sivaram (Taraki). http://www.tamilnation.org/forum/sivaram/920901lg.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-03. Self published
43. Robert Eric Frykenberg. "Elite Formation in 19th Century South India - An Interpretive Analysis". tamilnation.org. http://www.tamilnation.org/conferences/tamil_studies/IATR66_Kuala_Lumpur/frykenberg.htm Self published
44. Pandey, U. C. (1971). Yajur-Veda: Apastamba-Grhya-Sutra. No page number
45. From the Tanjore Court to the Madras Music Academy: A Social History of Music in South India by Lakshmi Subramanian ISBN 0-19-567835-4 No page number
46. Geetha, V. (2001). Towards a Non-Brahmin Millennium: From Iyothee Thass to Periyar. Bhatkal & Sen. ISBN 8185604371,ISBN 978-81-85604-37-4. No page number
47. P.V.Manickam Naicker, in his The Tamil Alphabet and its Mystic Aspect writes: "At least one of them is explicit in his endeavour to establish page after page and chapter after chapter, untainted Aryan pedigree for the Brahmins and Brahmins alone among the South-Indians. As such, he has naturally no scruples to say that the Tamils have nothing excellent or high which can be claimed as their own. Whatever is bad in them is their heritage and whatever good in them they owe to Sanskrit No page number
48. Caste and the Tamil Nation. tamilnation.org. http://www.tamilnation.org/forum/aryan/index.htm. Retrieved 2008-09-03. Broken and self published
49. In Tamil Renaissance and Dravidian Nationalism Nambi Arooran states: "However the Tamil Renaissance cannot be considered as solely the work of non-Brahmin scholars. Brahmins also played all equally important role and the contribution of U. V. Swaminatha Aiyar and C. Subramania Bharati cannot be underestimated. Similarly in the reconstruction of the Tamil past Brahmin historians such as S. Krishnaswami Aiyangar, K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar, P. T. Srinvasa Ayyangar and C. S. Srinivasachari brought out authoritative works on the ancient and medieval periods of South Indian history, on the basis of which non-Brahmins were able to look back with pride upon the excellence of Tamil culture. But some of the non-Brahmins looked at the contribution of Brahmin scholars with suspicion because of the pro-Aryan and pro-Sanskrit views expressed sometimes in their writings." BROKEN AND 'Self published No page number
50. A. Ramiah. "Untouchability in villages". Untouchability and Inter Caste Relations in Rural India: The Case of Southern Tamil villages. tamilnation.org. http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/ramaiah.htm#Untouchability_in_villages. Retrieved 2008-08-19. Self published —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zuggernaut (talk • contribs) 07:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I have no problem with #2 - Nagaswamy's self published article. He is a former ASI head who is regarded as a serious scholar. Probably the cited material can be qualified with "according to R. Nagasamy"--Sodabottle (talk) 04:10, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Same as above for Gail Omvedt. Nambi arooran is not self pub. His books are published by mainstream tamil publishers; Ethnologue report is also not self pub --Sodabottle (talk) 08:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. The person who has requested the reassessment has marked all tamilnation.org articles as self-published. I am yet unsure of in what context the word "self-published" is actually used. Does the user claim that all these articles have been published by authors themselves or whether the source is unreliable. The user has also marked this news item as self-published. I would like to have a clarification. Has the user simply marked sources at random and added reasons for the same?-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 11:22, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, this appears to be a frivolous and vexatious nomination for reassessment. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 12:39, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Neither frivolous nor vexatious. I am relatively new here and I'm following this guideline Wikipedia:Be bold. I'm hoping we all assume WP:Goodfaith. Thanks Zuggernaut (talk) 18:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

May be I should have been generic and referred to WP:Sources rather than calling most of these as self-published. Most of the .com, .info, .net and .org websites cited in the article do not comply with WP:Sources in that I doubt their reputation for checking facts and do they have an excellent editorial oversight? I came here looking for credible sources that could be included in other articles but I found in the very first instance that I could not use sources from #1 and #2 above (alcohol prohibition - Doniger, no page number provided and Universal History, page 140) elsewhere. All of the Tamilnation.org links are broken. In fact Tamilnation.org shutdown and went out of business January 25, 2010. This is not a random listing but it may have minor errors. Thanks Zuggernaut (talk) 18:48, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The book referred here is Universal History, Volume 6 published in 1781 and not Volume 53, published in 1765. I've rectified this mistake. By the way, V. Sundaram is an eminent IAS officer who writes regularly for the Madras newspaper News Today. See here.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 05:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate the rectification. It would be great if you can fix the Manusmriti citation regarding alcohol by adding the page number as well. Thanks. Zuggernaut (talk) 16:12, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The reliability of tamilnation.org had been discussed here.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 06:04, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be some back and forth regarding the Tamilnation.org source but it appears that a consensus was never achieved. Nonetheless, the website is now defunct and I would appreciate if we can find other sources to replace the ones that point to that website. If we are going to use non-academic sources, it is important that they have an excellent reputation for fact checking and good editorial oversight. Thanks. Zuggernaut (talk) 16:12, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

51. The article doses not deserve a good article status.

The book "Castes & Tribes in Southern India" does not have any free or limited preview in the internet.

No ISBN numbers have been provided in any of the iyengar or iyer wiki pages. The Isbn number ie provided in the edgar thurston page ,specifically for "Volumes 1-a,b" and "volume-2" is ISBN 978-8120602885. Wiki editors claim references for some controversial statements such as "all iyengars were once iyers, who later converted to vaishnavism", etc etc from these volumes.

Actually, the isbn number leads to a complete collection of all seven volumes. As you all already know, clicking on the isbn number leads to the "wiki book search result page", which in turn gives many links as to where the book might be available for any "free or limited preview".

But here, there is no such online preview for these volumes(1-a,b & 2) anywhere. Hence the contents are not verifiable by any mean. The only verifiable mean would be to buy the book directly.

The book is written by both Thurston and "K.Rangachari". But here "K.Rangachari" himself is an Iyengar. Such "non-online references" alone, atleast need be written by 3rd parties.

I can cite all the above reasons to delete all claims made from these "non-existent references".

Anyhow, none of the references are valid under any wiki' rule or regulation ,& hence should be deleted as they are used for controversial statements. If someone's going to indicate the "primary source" factor, that they've witnessed the contents of the article, then i suppose they are to provide a valid secondary source for support.

All controversial claims made from castes & tribes should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hari7478 (talk • contribs) 11:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not insist that all the sources used should be available online. Wikipedia always asks its editors to assume good faith. If you are not able to read those books online, I advice you to find some good library in your neighbourhood. Secondly, Castes and Tribes of Southern India is universally recognised as a classic as you might very well understand from The Hindu article provided as a source for the article on the book. And we don't care about the caste of the person who wrote it. Just because, the co-author of the book is one K. Rangachari whose name appears to be used by Sri Vaishnavite Brahmins, it does not make the book less reliable. And since you say that "none of the references are valid under any wiki' rule or regulation", I wish to know whether you are actually aware of what Wikipedia's rules and regulations actually state. Wikipedia also strongly insists on a neutral point of view, in case you are not aware.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 12:11, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on Castes but I guess this argument is baseless.Edgar Thurston's Book does have some flaws but overall its a good source IMO.-Raghavan(Talk) 14:59, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I have asked outside third opinion from the reliable sources noticeboard not particularly about the Thurston book but about the original list of 50 that I created. [1] Zuggernaut (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Usha Uthup - Not an Iyer

Please remove Usha Uthup's name from the "patronage of art" segment. She was born an Iyer, but she is married to a Christain. Refer: the wikipedia page on her - "She is married to Jani Chacko Uthup." She had mentioned in an interview that she was baptised and therefore technically she is a Christian. She is no longer an Iyer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.184.110.201 (talk) 08:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Review of GA status

I have absolutely no idea why this has been rated as a Good Article. It relies principally on the work of Edgar Thurston, a scientific racist and plagiarist who had a flawed sampling methodology and was writing over a century ago. It would not be quite so bad if this was made clear and if, for example, the past tense was used more frequently. For example, I find it difficult to accept that the Cuisine section properly reflects the habits of today. - Sitush (talk) 00:43, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The different sections refer to traditional practices and need not be followed by all members of the community. And hundred years is too short a period for traditions to change. There are other refs too.-Ravi_{My Tea Kadai} 18:09, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The article makes least use of Thurston in the "Genetics" section. We do not use Thurston to establish the race of this community but only for his record of different cultural practices. Can you please explain why Thurston was a plagiarist?-Ravi_{My Tea Kadai} 18:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Ravi, we should not use Thurston in the present tense: "Iyers are ..." is plain wrong, whereas "Iyers were noted in 1909 ..." might be ok. We should never use such old sources as if they were current, and in the case of Thurston it is particularly moot because his books mostly comprise a compendium of the thoughts & observations of others, many of whom are dubious and all of whom were by definition writing before him. Sometimes 40 and 50 years before him. His plagiarism comes about because although it is true that he usually does acknowledge his sources (unlike, say, J. Wikeley), he quite often does not. The modern AnSI surveys directed by Kumar Suresh Singh are even worse in that respect.

I've been doing a fair amount of work on the articles for people such as Herbert Hope Risley, William Crooke, Horace Arthur Rose and, yes, Edgar Thurston. Those articles are still by no means complete but what is evident is just how antiquated and methodologically poor those writers now seem. I am aware of the centenary conference that was held in Thurston's honour but it changes nothing: the guy is not sufficiently reliable to use without substantial bolstering from more modern sources. Even on issues such as culture, he made sweeping generalisations based on small samples and his classification of the various communities was based on flawed theories (eg: Aryanism) and second-hand knowledge. It is not the case that we should avoid him, but we certainly should look to minimising how much he is used. - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

While I do agree with you, except for a couple of lines mentioning the nasal index and cranial index, the section on "Genetics" does not use Thurston's book at all. The only sections which make use of Thurston are the section on "Subdivisions" and "Rituals". Since most books such as Rajini Kothari's Caste in Indian politics, Andre Beteille's Class, Caste and Power, S. N. Sadasivan's A Social history of India and Kathleen Gough use Thurston, I feel that the stratification is very much valid today. As for the "Rituals" section, most of the rituals are common to all Brahmin communities and can very well be moved out from the article. The criticisms section, etc., don't make use of Thurston at all.-Ravi_{My Tea Kadai} 02:46, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 April 2012

Orgin of this word The work Iyer is corruption of prakrit "Arya" also Aryan, the terminal "aar" or "kaar" is added as honorific title of address.This terminal "aar" and "kaar" is still seen in Marathi language.

Arya + aar = Aryaaar corrupted to Ayyar
        Arya + kar = Aryaarkar coorpted to Aryakar or Ayyankar 

203.192.196.157 (talk) 09:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reliable source for this info. Pol430 talk to me 22:09, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Iyer/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Delisted AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

There have been concerns over the article's quality for a long time. I've not been attend to it due to lack of time nor do I have enough time to keep an eye on the article. Hence I feel that it should be delisted.-Ravi_{My Tea Kadai} 02:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the talk page there are some serious concerns over sourcing used in this article. There are also a couple of tags that may need to be addressed. Again it might pay to leave a note at a Wikiproject in case someone else is interested in fixing the issues. AIRcorn (talk) 13:04, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

This reassessment has not seen much action for a while. Wondering whats its status is. AIRcorn (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

This appears to have been abandoned so I am going to make an executive decision and delist it. Even though there is no valid reason for delisting given here on the talk page serious concerns have been raised over the quality of sources (see Talk:Iyer#Review of GA status). There are also a few tags present on the article (citation and clarification needed). Another issue is a previous reassessment that was started in 2012 and also appears to be abandoned. For these reasons I think the best course of action is to delist and allow interested editors to renominate it at WP:GAN if they wish to get it up to GA status (after a thorough evaluation of the sources). AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Aryan Origin

The begining of the article cites possible Aryan origin of the Iyers ( see similarities in the words ), but then says it is debunked by some research. I looked at the research and found that this was a fake science research done by Benaras Hindu University that has an agenda from Hindu fundamentalists that do not want to accept the Aryan invasion history. This research cited is not accepted by rest of the historian community and the existing linguisting and genetic research overwhelmigly prove that the central asian Aryan invasion thoery of India is true. There is nothing shameful about it, its high time the Hindu fundamentalists accept it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.96.55.163 (talk) 01:44, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Aryan Invasion theory is 100% accurate. Iyers are the original Aryans. Please remove the sentence where it says Aryan theory has been debunked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brahmin 007 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC) Before mocking Aryan migration theory this "academic community" must explain some points.Like.. 1)how is it that majority of the languages of Eurasia have a common origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language (the geographical spread is wider than the mocking ) 2)explain the evidence of horse domestication in Eurasian steppes in relation to its importance Vedic texts..still existing wild species of horses are found in those regions hhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_horse

3)Soma/Haoma plant in Veda/Avesta grows naturally in colder climates of Central Asia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haoma — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xerexes9 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

AIT is in fact widely mocked by the academic community, as our various articles on the subject say. It is to all intents and purposes a fringe theory nowadays. - Sitush (talk) 10:35, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

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External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2016

In the Criticism topic, there is some information with wrong reference. need to edit Pdmurugan (talk) 10:07, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

What is wrong? Please propose your changes here and, if necessary, provide reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 10:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

hi, i would to talk /edit about the content in Criticism of Iyer wiki page

Hi,

I would to talk /edit about content in Criticism section of Iyer wiki page.

The article reference 90 doesn't hold any authentication and not provided any support link and that is deadlink; You guys should remove the words about the Pallar immediately, its hurts lot which is never applicable to Devendrar/ Mallar/ Pallar; some bstrd purposely done derogatory remark on other community. It should be removed immediately. if any question or information on this, contact for clarification, would like to see action on the same. Hope you guys understand the nature of the issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maruthanilavendan (talk • contribs) 13:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I am going to remove it. However, we do not remove merely because a link is now dead, nor because something might offend someone. In this case I have come across the linked website before and it was hopelessly unreliable. I note that the Wayback Machine excludes it from its archiving. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Video for sharing

Hi I have a small video that I made as a part of a filmmaking class that shows the indian morning rituals in a Iyer household. What would be a good place to include it in? --Shrutim21 (talk) 04:11, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

File:Indian morning.webm

Sorry but your own video is unlikely to be relevant to Wikipedia. I wish you luck with your film career. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:28, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2017

______________ Present Content: Dalit leader and founder of political party Pudiya Tamizhagam, Dr.Krishnasamy admits that the Anti-Brahmin Movement had not succeeded up to the expectations and that there continues to be as much discrimination of Dalits as had been before.

So many movements have failed. In Tamil Nadu there was a movement in the name of anti-Brahmanism under the leadership of Periyar. It attracted Dalits, but after 30 years of power, the Dalits understand that they are as badly-off - or worse-off - as they were under the Brahmans. Under Dravidian rule, they have been attacked and killed, their due share in government service is not given, they are not allowed to rise.

________________ In above content there is inappropriate word Dalit related to Pudiya Tamilagam; Puthiya Tamilagam is party belong to Devendra Kula Vellalar Community, they are not related to Dalit at all, in Sangam period to till date their occupation is paddy/ agriculturalist(Kudumbar/Mallar, Kurmis in North) and worshiper of God Indra(Indira Kulam), They have rich spiritual heritages; Major temples in Tamil Nadu build by their Ancestor Pandiya, Cholas period; still they have first rights in all temple events and they are are pure supporter of Bharatiya Janatha Parties Principals, welcomed first includes recent moves "Ban on Cattle Slaughter"; this is due to respecting Cattle as part of their day to day Agricultural usage life of their community peoples and respect / prey Cows in Pongal Festivals(In ancient period, its Indra Vizha) and many;

I strongly object to use the word dalit in Puthiya Thamilagam or Dr. Krishnasamy. There are many dalit outfits include VCK / Arunthathiyar parties agree eating beef is there right in openly and thru films(Director Ranjit Films).

I request you to remove the whole contents Marked which hurt sentiments of Devendra Kula Vellalar. The link Provided [72], which purposely drag Devendra Community into Ambedkar.org; This article was made content with intention to derogate Devendrar Community and Puthiya Thamilagam.

I would appreciate your prompt understanding and quick action on removing the marked contents, any information i would happy to assist. Thank you. RajeshPandian.sa (talk) 14:39, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Train2104 (t • c) 17:25, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

References

External links modified

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status column for telaga caste

Someone kindly take a minute to add useful and interesting content to Telaga caste, Kapu caste, balija caste pages

Use the link - http://www.kapusangam.com/history.php

Also, Telaga caste is Forward caste. Mention it in the right column — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.202.107 (talk) 18:47, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2019

The page says Iyer is a "caste" in the Brahmin community, which is technically incorrect. Iyer is a "sub-community" in the Brahmin community similar to Iyengars, Namboothiris, etc. The word caste has been applied here incorrectly. Xodus99 (talk) 06:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

@Xodus99: Could you point to some reliable sources that I could add for the claim? Thank you. – Þjarkur (talk) 13:25, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done for now: nil response to request for sources in 48 hours, so closing request. @Xodus99: if you provide reliable sources here, please reopen the request by changing "|answered=yes" to "|answered=no". NiciVampireHeart 14:48, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2020

Notable people

• Sir CV Raman
• Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, Astrophysicist, Nobel Prize Physics winner
• Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, Nobel Prize Chemistry winner
• Nambi Narayanan, ISRO Scientist
• Srinivasa Ramanujan, mathematician
• Akshay Venkatesh, fields medallist, mathematician
• V.S. Ramachandran, neurologist and neuropsychologist
• Srinivasa Varadhan, mathematician and Abel Prize laureate
• G.N. Ramachandran, professor of biophysics, discoverer of collagen structure
• Rajagopalan Vasudevan, Indian scientist who developed an innovative method to reuse plastic waste to construct better, more durable and very cost-effective roads.
• Vasan Iyer, research scientist at the German Aerospace Center (DLR) Vasan83 (talk) 11:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

References

• Not done, not directly verified in the cited sources. Also don't add yourself to Wikipedia articles, see WP:COI. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Another problem, many of these are Tamil Brahmins in general rather than Iyers specifically - Ramanujan for example is Iyengar C1MM (talk) 00:55, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Significant bias towards Brahmins

Much of this article, especially the last part, is written specifically from the Brahmin point of view and attempts to either defame Dravidian parties or defend the Brahmins from the accusations against them rather than presenting them in an objective light. For example, it mentions "Alleged" discrimination when it is perfectly well-documented that the Brahmins did not allow most non-Brahmins from entering their temples, as well as a host of other casteist terms. Can someone please fix these issues? C1MM (talk) 01:19, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

With all due respect sir it is the Brahmins who maintain temples from our point of view these are simply rules which must be followed to allow for the sacred atmosphere of the temple. Generally speaking a Brahmin should follow all the rules and hence preserve his own sacredness, lower varnas had a much less regulated lifestyle due to not being of clergy and hence were not allowed to enter. I agree this should be in #criticism. 108.39.84.90 (talk) 01:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Origin section needs to be expanded

More information needs to go into the origin section. Readers are interested in knowing about the origin of the south Indian caste called Iyers. Currently, the origin section has a link to Indo-Aryan migration theories? What is one supposed to make of it? The Indo-Aryan article speaks about Indo-Iranian people originating in the Ural mountains somewhere in Russia. So you got onto a chariot in the Central Steppes and then arrived at the Indus Valley Civilisationaa while worshipping Indra, drinking soma, burning cows and munching beef jerkiesaa? Then the article talks about Aryan invasion versus migration theory. So after conquering the IVC you thought that it would do good to demote Indra and switched to present godsaa? Iyers are scions and torch-bearers of Andronovo culturaa? Also, mention when Iyers migrated to south India as there is no information on this. And then the origin section has a link to an article on gene pool. What is this for? Are you indigenous south Indian people who took up sanskrit and vedic religion due to a fusion of cultures or are you of mixed ancestry? or are you an unaltered homogeneous gene pool from the time you arrived from Russia or wherever? I am not even going ask why most Iyers look south Indian so it is totally cool if it is the last one, just tweak the lede from Tamil origin to Tamil speaking Brahmins if it is just a linguistic affiliation. Nittawinoda (talk) 04:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

This is so offensive. μTalk 17:05, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

The intention was not to offend but to rather draw attention. Again, the origin section has to be amended so that there is no misinformation unless it is part of some twisted strategy to elevate Iyers. All Iyers may have migrated from the Ural mountains in Central Asia. All Iyers may very well be homogenenous. No one is disputing this. But all Iyers are definitely not Brahmins and this migration does not necessarily make all Iyers Aryans. It is trivial to define an Aryan and this is beyond blood, bones and genetic composition. A full blooded Jewish person with no mixed ancestry could very well be Aryan. No, Aryan is not noble, it is something definite but I have no intention to expand further on an open forum like this. But the case rests, accentuating the European ancestry does not necessarily make someone Aryan so the origin section needs to be reworked. I have no intention to do anything with it due to a conflict of interest. Nittawinoda (talk) 11:55, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

To add to article

To add to the lead of this article: the Tamil spellings of this name: ஐயர் and அய்யர். 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2023

Traditionally, the Iyer community, which belongs to the Brahmin caste of South India, has predominantly followed a vegetarian diet, adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs. However, in recent times, there has been an observed shift in dietary practices among some members of the Iyer community, with a small but notable number choosing to include non-vegetarian food in their diets. This shift in dietary preferences is influenced by factors such as individual choices, cultural influences, and evolving societal norms. Mikey.patterson (talk) 15:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

No reliable source provided. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:19, 5 June 2023 (UTC)