Talk:Stop sign

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Archives of past discussion[edit]

Archive 1

Non-English speaking countries[edit]

Why is it that some non-English speaking countries use stop signs with the English word "STOP," instead of their linguistic equivalent?...unless of course these countries adopted the English word. Two examples: Germany and Italy. I don't believe "stop" is a German word, and I highly doubt it's Italian, but often times the English word "STOP" appears on stop signs in these countries. Anyone know why? 98.221.131.77 (talk) 23:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Good question. The word STOP has quite an universal recognition, even for people who wouldn't speak english. I know that in French, the word was officially accepted in the language and their STOP signs still display the familiar "Stop" word. In Quebec, however (where I live), "stop" is considered an anglicism, (and would even be considered offensive by some) so the stop sign display the french word "Arrêt" instead. It all depends on the socio-political reality of the various cultures or countries, I guess. --Dez26 18:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dez26 (talk • contribs)

Not exactly. When Bill 101 was introduced decades ago, "stop" was initially considered an anglicism. However, "stopper" is a valid French verb (borrowed from English in past centuries) and in due course it was decided by the Office québécois de la langue française that "stop" was an acceptable French word (see their granddictionnaire.com and look up "stop" and click on the "route" sub-domain link; no direct link unfortunately). The highway code in Québec thus allows both ARRÊT and STOP, although in practice the former predominates in mostly French-speaking areas (ie, most of Québec) while the latter can be found in English-speaking areas (if you are skeptical, just use Google Maps Street View for the West Island suburbs of Montréal such as Pointe-Claire and you will see countless examples, or see [1]). Legacy signs containing both words (with ARRÊT invariably on top) are still commonly found; these were once considered bilingual but are now officially considered merely redundant and to be avoided. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 02:44, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reasoning for use of octagonal shape[edit]

I disagree that the octagon shape is used because it "allows drivers facing the back of the sign to identify that oncoming drivers have a stop sign and prevent confusion with other traffic signs. It was also chosen so that it could be identified easily at night, since the original signs were not reflective.". The reason for the octagon shape is because if it's ever covered e.g. with mud, snow or leaves, then it's still obvious what it means. Also, when visibility is poor (e.g. in fog), the shape can be made out if not the writing, so again it'll be obvious that it's a stop sign. "allows drivers facing the back of the sign to identify that oncoming drivers have a stop sign" doesn't make a lick of sense. Drivers do not need to know what signs the drivers on the opposite side of the road are seeing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.189.112.129 (talk) 17:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The New York Times also reports that the number of sides of a sign would signify how dangerous the warning was (8 sided stop is more important then the 4 sided square informational signs) http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/magazine/stop-sign.html Robin the Bobbin (talk) 21:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Citation for use of STOP and (old existing) ARRÊT/STOP signs in Québec[edit]

An example of an old dual ARRÊT/STOP sign in Québec can be found here. Many other examples can be found from Google Street View, for example here is an "ARRÊT/STOP" at the corner of Hermitage and Glenforest in Pointe-Claire, and here is a "STOP" at the corner of Hyman and Angora in Dollard-des-Ormeaux. Countless other examples could be chosen. And of course there are plenty of ARRÊT signs too, but I trust it isn't necessary to provide a photo. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 06:40, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Three-way intersections that have one each of ARRÊT, STOP, and ARRÊT/STOP[edit]

The holy grail is a three-way intersection that uses one of each type of stop sign. Logically, the best place to look for these is where a municipal boundary runs down the middle of a road, and one municipality uses ARRÊT signs and the other uses STOP signs, and there also just happens to be an old ARRÊT/STOP left over.
Starting at the corner of Anselme-Lavigne and Boulevard Saint-Jean and heading east on Anselme-Lavigne, use Google Street View to check out the corners of Anselme-Lavigne and Baffin, and Anselme-Lavigne and Gariépy. A short section of the municipal boundary between Dollard-des-Ormeaux and the Montréal borough of Pierrefonds-Roxboro runs down the middle of the road in this area, so the stop sign in the southern half of Anselme-Lavigne (eastbound lane) is in Dollard-des-Ormeaux and says "STOP", while the stop sign in the northern half of Anselme-Lavigne (westbound lane) is in Pierrefonds-Roxboro and says "ARRÊT"; meanwhile, the side street (Baffin or Gariépy) still has an old "ARRÊT/STOP" sign (which will presumably eventually be changed to "STOP", since it is in Dollard-des-Ormeaux). -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 19:46, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It seems as if nearly every individual on the entire planet knows exactly what "OK" means. "Stop" is probably not quite as universal as that, but as English words go, at least it's a short word for a simple obvious concept. I can see three factors for deciding what word goes on a stop sign: ease of adoption (re-using someone else's design is simpler and faster than creating a new one); ease of acceptance (if people have a political objection things won't go smoothly, if people see their own language they will like it, if people see a particular foreign language that's acceptable to them then that's OK); ease of understanding (as long as people will certainly know they have to stop, it doesn't really matter WHAT you write on there). TooManyFingers (talk) 07:44, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Francophone Africa[edit]

Are Francophone countries in Africa solely using “STOP” on their signs or do they have any deviations from the standard? -- sion8 Contributions | Tᴀʟᴋ ᴘᴀɢᴇ 06:09, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Major cleanup — more work needed[edit]

I have gone through and done a big cleanup. Removed parentheticals and personal essay text, fixed grammar and syntax, rectified units, put in appropriate section headings and subheadings, rectified flow of information, image placement and captions and chronology, removed dead wikilinks and added appropriate live ones, added a subsection on school bus stop signs, consolidated the secondary images into a gallery, tagged unsupported assertions, and added applicable templates. We very badly need more documentary support from reliable sources in this article. Shouldn't be hard to find it in the MUTCD and the appropriate UNECE standards, amongst others. There's a ref to a very relevant MUTCD section here on the talk page; I'm about to go incorporate it into the article. Work still to be done includes, primarily, removing external links per the WP:EL policy. Those external links that can serve as referenced reliable sources per WP:CITE need to be incorporated as such; the others need to go away. —Scheinwerfermann (talk) 16:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The section regarding school buses states, "...required by law on North American school buses." Even if we exclude the island nations and territories, there are still many countries in North America. Is it true that Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador and the others all imposed this law? I suspect that by "North America," the author of this entry meant the USA and Canada (and possibly Mexico). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.2.126 (talk) 16:57, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PNG[edit]

A 1980s National Geographic featured a photo of a New Guinea "ol kar mas stop sapos yu lukim red pela mak" sign. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 15:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I could try and find it; do you have any more info? The name of the articel, or the (approximate) date? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 01:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
http://www.englishforums.com/English/WokLongRot/ghdbc/post.htm --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 16:40, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

½ SVG ½ photos?[edit]

For the gallery section, would it be better to have only SVGs for each example, but include in each caption a link to the photo image (By way of a source to proove the images aren't just made up)? 76.117.247.55 (talk) 01:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If I was design dictator of this page, I'd eliminate every SVG from the "country examples", and ask for real-life photos only. (Though I'd have *only* SVGs in the tables that demonstrate the standards.) The only reason I can think of to keep any of the individual-country examples is to be able to see *exactly* what they look like in real life. Otherwise, all we see is the opinion/impression/choice of the person who made the drawing. (Which IMO is exactly what we do want to see in an official standard drawing, but not elsewhere.) Tracing the example in the standards document and claiming it's your finished product seems somewhat odd. :)
Especially because real-life stop signs are not usually difficult to find. TooManyFingers (talk) 16:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rolling stop[edit]

How would one go about legalizing these? It would save a lot of jerking about in the car and is just as safe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 23:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1. Find out which organization (probably a government department of some kind) is responsible for making the laws and regulations about driving in your area. Find out if this organization is local, regional, or national.
2a. Get the contact information for that department, and tell them your idea.
2b. Find the person from your area who is elected to the same level the department belongs to (local, regional, or national) and tell them about it too.
Good luck with that. TooManyFingers (talk) 07:14, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some references for the "theft" section that requires expansion[edit]

For whomever decides to tackle this section expansion, here are some (unfortunately US-centric) refs:

I've not got time to do anything with them myself unfortunately. Nikthestoned 15:01, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yellow circle alternative Vienna Convention stop signs?[edit]

I took the description at face value and hope the illustrations I recently contributed agree with it. However, I've never seen a photograph of one that has actually been installed by a road crew or property manager. The closest image Google seems to come up with is the pre-1954 American octagon. knoodelhed (talk) 06:14, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Politicization of article[edit]

This article seems to be written in a rather... political manner in some places. The section on North America even goes so far as to accuse stop signs at highways as having negative effects on freedom of speech. First, I just wanted to make sure everyone had the opportunity to enjoy the fact that someone felt so passionately about stop signs. Second, I think we should discuss maybe cleaning up some of the more vitriolic language in this article. Thoughts? JMike93 (talk) 01:18, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, User:czar appears to have impliedly adopted the position that the WP:CIVILITY guideline overrides all core policies (see discussion at User talk:czar). Thus, while some of the language in this article appears to deploy some rather peculiar logic, it would be uncivil, if I am reading that editor's position correctly, to critique such language as violating WP's core policies. --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I found the "North America" section horrendously POV. Essentially, it is a diatribe against overuse of stop signs. The first step of cleanup would be to move most of its content into a section labeled "Controversies" or "Criticisms". That content is not about WHAT A STOP SIGN IS; hence belongs in a narrowly labeled section. And rewritten to emphasize WHO is making those strongly opinionated statements. NOTE: I make this observation independently of any judgment about the accuracy of what is said nor quality of sources; that is not relevant to how it should be presented. ToolmakerSteve (talk) 08:27, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I also found the North America section to be a lengthy one-sided argument AGAINST stop signs, instead of a simple explanation (that they are ubiquitously used at every street corner). Sounds like an anti-US bias trying to criticize rather than explain. This is all opinion backed by a tiny group of studies (two outside the US and seemingly pointless) that have virtually no effect. Dfoofnik (talk) 05:53, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I added a POV tag to that section. Motorracer (talk) 20:21, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Great horny toads...whoever put up that angry screed against stop signs clearly didn't understand this is an encyclopedia here, not a debate-team exercise or city council meeting or congressional hearing or platform for propounding personal pet peeves. Much of the case law they cited (at long length) applies only to specific states or situations and really didn't belong here; this also isn't a law school homework assignment. I have removed most of the rant, and moved the text that could be retained in an NPOV manner to a new "disadvantages" section. Pogorrhœa (talk) 04:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Icelandic stop sign spelling[edit]

I've come across a picture with a stop sign in Iceland that is written as STANZ instead of STANS. I think it was around 1974 that the letter Z was dropped from the Icelandic language so it would make sense that the signs would read STANZ instead of STANS. Not sure how to reference this as I don;t think the picture is open source and I oonly have one at hand that has a stop sign in it. Lotsofmagnets (talk) 01:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Lotsofmagnets:, can you share this photo? Fry1989 eh? 17:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC) etop Anthony y Arisleidy[reply]

Unnecessary "According to whom?" tag[edit]

The text "The unique eight-sided shape of the sign allows drivers facing the back of the sign to identify that oncoming drivers have a stop sign and prevent confusion with other traffic signs" shouldn't need a citation. It's an obvious fact, such as "Because the card has been face down at all points in the game thus far, the players have no idea what the card is". Would THAT be tagged with "according to whom"? If the text had said "... was intentionally designed so that drivers from the sign's other side can tell that it can only be a stop-sign and not any other sign", then, yes, the fact of its being intentional WOULD need a citation. But if traffic-signs have the shapes they have, and only one is an octagon, and human minds have the powers of reasoning that we know them to have, the imaginary world in which it is NOT true that the sign allows drivers not facing its front to identify it is simply not a possible world that can actually exist. The statement being thus INEVITABLY true, it should not have been flagged. Nor should it have been omitted just for being inevitably true. It's a worthwhile thing to have pointed out.74.64.105.76 (talk) 01:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson[reply]

In Europe, drivers are trained, if they don't encounter a yield/stop sign when entering an intersection, to look for the backs of triangular and octogonal signs on other roads, to determine which road(s) have priority or if it's a no priority intersection (in many European countries, priority diamonds are very rarely posted). 93.136.47.163 (talk) 05:43, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Portuguese[edit]

Under "Stop signs around the world", it says: "Portuguese-speaking countries with the exception of Brazil use the standard version of the sign".

But this isn't a very satisfactory answer, because it doesn't describe Portuguese-speaking people's opinion of "the standard version of a stop sign". (I know what *I* think a standard stop sign is - but it's not a good idea to let me dictate other countries' road signs!) :) TooManyFingers (talk) 06:56, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Disadvantages" section[edit]

In my opinion this section isn't named correctly. It discusses some specific difficulties or pitfalls of intersection design and stop sign placement, their effects on safety, and how to mitigate those difficulties. A better name would probably be "Details of installation".

A section called "Disadvantages", if there is one, should IMO be dedicated to reasons why a correctly installed stop sign is counterproductive or dangerous under certain circumstances, or problems that can be caused by the presence of a correctly installed stop sign - in other words, situations in which stop signs are inherently a bad idea, not just tricky to install. TooManyFingers (talk) 08:27, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stop signs originated in Michigan in 1915.[edit]

Also in 1914, Detroit police sergeant Harry Jackson cut the corners off a square sign to create an easily recognized octagonal shape for the first red stop sign or “boulevard stop.” Using the octagon was a brilliant stroke, since its unique shape facilitated recognition, especially by fast-moving motorists.24 The Motor Club of Michigan, which financed the installation, placed the signs to halt cross-street traffic on a boulevard to the suburbs. This installation may have just reinforced existing right-of-way practice. Kansas City, Missouri, and Chicago had earlier required side-street traffic to yield the right of way to cars on suburban parkways.25 Right-of-way ordinances had proven inadequate, in part because strangers crossing a boulevard or parkway might not know the right-of-way rule. Stop signs worked better and rapidly came into use at corners on major arteries where cross traffic seemed too light to justify a traffic cop.

https://sites.tufts.edu/carscultureplace2010/files/2010/09/McShane-traffic-signals-1999.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sermart1234 (talk • contribs) 19:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relatedly, this entire section...
"The first ever stop sign was created by Detroit police sergeant Harry Jackson, who was working as a traffic guard at a busy city intersection. One of the cross streets had a particularly low-visibility turn entering the intersection, almost always forcing Harry to slow down and hold back the traffic entering from that street. Looking for ways to make his job easier, he took a rectangular piece of plywood, cut off the corners to give it a distinct shape, wrote "STOP" over the center and placed facing the street. He noticed that his innovation improved the overall traffic flow through the intersection. After he shared his experience with fellow officers at a meeting, the practice started to spread across the city intersections."
...is not actually attested in the cited source. The entirety of the contents relating to Harry Jackson and his invention of the stop sign in that source (a Slate article) reads as follows:
"Indeed, historian Clay McShane writes that in 1914, “Detroit police sergeant Harry Jackson cut the corners off a square sign to create an easily recognized octagonal shape for first red stop sign or ‘boulevard’ stop.” (The signs were controversial: McShane notes that “Illinois courts briefly ruled stop signs illegal in 1922 as a violation of the rights of individuals to cross streets.”)"
There is nothing there about Harry's supposed travails with the low-visibility turn, etc. Nor can these details be found in the Clay McShane piece that the Slate article appears to be referencing.
Unless someone can point to a source that includes these details, I'm forced to conclude that the entire passage quoted above is likely a fabrication added by a particularly, er, "creative" editor. 149.248.178.154 (talk) 16:06, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Esp[edit]

Anong sakuna ang pinipigilan ng stop sign 223.25.60.125 (talk) 04:35, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Strikes Again![edit]

The source used to support crediting Harry Jackson as inventor of the first stop sign credits him with no more than creating the first red stop sign. 😃😃😃😃 —2600:8800:7000:13B:B253:2534:B241:74DD (talk) 05:29, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

🛑[edit]

Should the stop sign Unicode character be discussed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.55.54.51 (talk) 18:37, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Arrêt" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Arrêt has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 8 § Arrêt until a consensus is reached. Awesome Aasim 04:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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