Talk:List of oldest universities in continuous operation

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Eurocentric, are't you?[edit]

There were gigantic Buddhist academy in Bodh Gaya, India, and state-sponsored Confucius academies in the East Asia long before these Western "universities" were established - i.e., early part of the first millenium AD. Unfamiliar with the Muslim world's academic history, but I bet they too had better claim to this "earliest universities" claim given their scientific knowledge far surpassed those of Europe in the medieval time when these so-called "universities" were founded..

Euro-centric much? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.23.87.19 (talk) 23:48, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Read the lead, and then if you still have questions read the talk page archives. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 07:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quote from the article “To be included in the list below, the university must have been founded before 1500 in Europe or be the oldest university derived from the medieval European model in a country or region”.

so the name of the article shoud reflect correctly that “List of oldest universities in continuous operation in Europe” 216.183.209.211 (talk) 05:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, and that is not what the sentence you quote says either. Jeppiz (talk) 13:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah this list is pretty much intentionally eurocentric, whether or not that's the right move. Check out the pages List of oldest schools and Ancient higher-learning institutions, I think they're closer to what you are imagining. Gold Broth (talk) 06:27, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Madrassas are not universities, also European scientific knowledge was superior during the Middle AgesStianwick (talk) 16:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They are and your assertion is truly ignorant. How a person like you can even have an author status here. Wikipedia urgently needs to review your authorship as this is clearly a stain on its reputation. 2A00:23C8:4213:6A01:9557:B36A:3F89:FF20 (talk) 20:03, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree that the Renaissance in Europe is the self-accelerating catch-up and surpassing of the Islamic world in science and technology (thanks largely to Gutenberg), but to say that Europe was ahead in science BEFORE the Renaissance is rather much of a joke. What did Charlemagne (illiterate) ever have that compared to Baghdad's House Of Wisdom flourishing at the same time? In Florence even IN the Renaissance there was an attempt to ban "Hindu-Arabic" numerals. And you absolutely can't have science as long as you have Roman numerals. It's just not possible. And why do we use an Arabic-derived word for "algebra"?2600:1700:6759:B000:60E4:4CDF:3898:2FB2 (talk) 07:15, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson[reply]

Al Qarawiyyin, Al Azhar, Sankore[edit]

Why doesn't this article mention Al-Qarawiyyin (founded in the 9th century) and Al Azhar (founded in the 10th century) and Sankore University (founded in the 10th century) which are all older than any other European university? Mrjazz123 (talk) 19:22, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because Europeans dont like it. nableezy - 19:31, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because this is a list of oldest universities rather than a list of the oldest higher learning institutions, thus it does not include either madrasas or cathedral schools and it dates institutions from when they took on corporate forms as universities not from when the first schools were established (thus the dates for Bologna and Oxford, in particular, are substantially later than the "earliest teaching" dates given elsewhere). Robminchin (talk) 20:04, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

UNESCO and the Guinness World Records recognize al-Qarawiyyin as the oldest university in the world, (The Universities We Need

Theological Perspectives, pp 169, ed. Stephen Heap). Also, Al Azhar is older than any European university according to the Encyclopedia of Global Religion, pp. 26. These universities aren't any different to later European universities. It is unnecessary to differentiate Muslim universities with European universities and to neglect their importance. If historians and scholars recognize Al Azhar and Al Qarawiyyin as the oldest universities in the world, then they should be included in this list. Maybe it's hard for Europeans to accept the fact that Muslims were more advanced in science and technology during the Middle Ages, while the Europeans were living in the "Dark Ages" and regressed in every aspect of life for centuries. Mrjazz123 (talk) 18:09, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Guinness World Records category is "Oldest Higher Learning Institution". That al-Qarawiyyin is the oldest higher learning institution is not disputed. The UNESCO claim is from the entry in the Medina of Fez entry in the register of World Heritage Sites. The opening sentence of this used to read "Founded in the 9th century and home to the oldest university in the world, Fez reached its height in the 13th–14th centuries...".[1] However, it has been updated and now reads "Founded in the 9th century, Fez reached its height in the 13th–14th centuries...".[2] There is no mention of 'university' anywhere in the entry. Robminchin (talk) 21:10, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

University of Leuven[edit]

hi guys, the university of Leuven was founded in 1425. It deserves a spot on the list as the oldest university from Belgium and the Netherlands. 83.128.127.39 (talk) 15:29, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is discussed on the page: there's not the required continuous operation. See especially Note 4. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:36, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is something suspicious about regarding "University" as a term distinct from "Institution Of Higher Learning".[edit]

I can't see that there is any reason for regarding "university" as a term distinct from "institution of higher learning" OTHER THAN to exclude non-European institutions from inclusion in the category "universities". In common English speech, "university" and "institution of higher learning" are synonymous. The difference between (on the one hand) an institution of higher learning that has "College" in its name and uses the phrase "School Of" for its subdivisions and (on the other hand) an institution of higher learning that has "University" in its name and uses the phrase "College Of" for its subdivisions is pretty much nil. The former (any College made of Schools) is just one that hasn't gotten around to changing its name yet, or is being blocked from doing so by political machinations from one or more institutions of higher learning in the same state who DO have the word "University" in their name and want to limit its use. There's no MATERIAL difference between the words "College" and "University" that applies consistently all over the U.S.A.. And, except where a "College" is a component of a University, both "College" and "University" are synonyms for "institution of higher learning".

Now, if there IS something different between (on the one hand) European institutions of higher learning that early on called themselves "Universities" and (on the other hand) non-European institutions of higher learning, SPELL THAT OUT. (I mean, a difference OTHER than simply BEING European. I meant some difference in the way they operated or the way they achieved results. Some REAL difference, not just an area of the world where they were located.) I'm afraid that I believe that the reason I'm not finding the differences spelled out anywhere is that it's all just a ruse to maintain an entirely artificial separation between European and non-European institutions, a difference based ONLY on location while pretending to be based on something else. I find nothing but circular reasoning: "Why is that madrasah in Morocco not a university?" is answered with "because it's not European". But why should the area where something is located be a determinant in whether it's called "a university" or not? Why should we agree to definitions that say "If it's in Europe it's a university but if it's not in Europe it's not a university"?2600:1700:6759:B000:60E4:4CDF:3898:2FB2 (talk) 07:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson[reply]

In most countries, the distinction is clearer than in the US. The meaning of university as used by academic historians has been discussed before, and does not follow the distinction you claim. You should note that places like Bologna and Oxford as well as many Cathedral schools are not considered by historians to have been universities from their date of foundation but only from when they were organised as universities, which make it clear that the definition is not, as you claim, because they are in Europe. Robminchin (talk) 17:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]