Talk:Chamaecyparis lawsoniana

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Untitled[edit]

Following Wikipedia policy, this article should be titled Port Orford Cedar. For one reason, it is by far the most commonly used name. Also, the USDA recognizes it as the official name. In its native range, it is exclusively called Port Orford Cedar. The nursery trade does mostly refer to it as Lawson's Cypress, but that is the only place where it is a common term so far as I can tell. -- WormRunner | Talk 20:01, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the page to Port Orford Cedar but kept Lawson's Cypress as an alternate name in the first paragraph, and expanded the discussion of the name in the text. -- WormRunner | Talk 02:32, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Returned to Lawson's Cypress. It is a cypress, and should stay so labelled, otherwise it buggers up the indexing, categorisation, etc. Listing it as a cedar causes extensive confusion, and is not suitable. I've no problem with calling it Port Orford Cypress, if you're happy with that. Even better, whatever the local Native American name for it is plus Cypress as a qualifier. But equally it should be pointed out that Lawson's Cypress is historically the first name used (1855). - MPF 11:35, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Port Orford Cypress is the worst of all possible alternatives, since it is almost never used. Port Orford Cedar is no worse than Douglas-Fir or Western Redcedar. I believe it is well known that it is not related to Cedrus. -- WormRunner | Talk 16:16, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You'd be surprised. Confusion between cedar and "cedar" meaning cypress is quite common in e.g. postings on gardenweb. BTW, what is the local Native American name? That should be mentioned too. - MPF 17:45, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Of "no worse than" - that's why they're compounded as Redcedar and Douglas-fir (not Douglas Fir). That leaves you with the option of Port Orfordcedar, Port-Orford-Cedar (which is sometimes used) or some other ghastliness. - MPF 17:53, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hyphens may be awkward but they do not change pronunciation. Well, if you can't abide the actual common name of the plant, we have two options: take it to the Tree of Life group, or move it to Chamaecyparis lawsoniana. The latter option would be the most sensible in my opinion (less acrimonious for one thing), and there is plenty of precedent for it at this point. -- WormRunner | Talk 20:14, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good idea, I'll do that - MPF 20:25, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done; but I still consider it very important to make it abundantly clear in the text that it is a cypress, and not a cedar. Botany and accurate classification is more important than anyone's local names - MPF 20:29, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Botany and accurate classification is more important than anyone's local names" -- Absolutely, and that is why we have the distinction between scientific names and common names, and why we should not confuse the one with the other. -- WormRunner | Talk 20:39, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cedar = Cedrus, very useful and convenient. It would be abhorrent to have to change it for the sake of a mis-named cypress - MPF 23:33, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

While the page name issue has been settled, it seems to me that the fact that the two oft-used common names are used in different settings is important imformation. I changed the page slightly to reflect this distinction.