Talk:New Zealand order of precedence

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Untitled[edit]

What IS the "order of precedence"? What are the benifits associated with being at the top of the list? Why is this list significant? Skylark 19:49, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It's generally only of ceremonial importance. The idea is that the dignitary with the highest precedence walks into the room first, is introduced first, sits higher up the table, sits closer to the front of a photograph, etc. Another example: according to the New Zealand Cabinet Manual, when a junior minister phones a senior minister he speaks to the senior ministers secretary: but a senior minister gets her secretary to place the call and then picks it up once the junior minister is on the line. Ben Arnold 07:07, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Privy Council?[edit]

Do Privy Counsellors still rank, given the establishment of the New Zealand Supreme Court effective from January 1 2004? -- FirstPrinciples 12:10, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

To answer my own question, it seems the answer is yes. The Privy Council in this context is evidently a different concept to the legal court of the same name. -- FirstPrinciples 12:13, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
The appeal to the Privy Council was an appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. (I might not have got the name quite right.) I haven't been able to establish whether New Zealand is still appointing Privy Councillors, but I suppose things stay as they are until the Order of Precedence is officially changed. Ben Arnold 02:35, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Note[edit]

Archbishop Patrick Coveney (fourth on the list) no longer holds the position. Not sure who his replacement is. -- FP 11:44, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

I believe it would be be Feesago Siaosi Fepulea’i of Samoa, assuming that there hasn't been any change there as well. (Lim Jock Seng of Brunei is actually more senior than Fepulea’i, but isn't resident in New Zealand, so isn't able to be Dean of the Diplomatic Corps. I've updated the article. -- Vardion 18:47, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Canadian High Commissioner[edit]

Miss Robin Mulder of the Canadian High Commission sent the following e-mail to the help desk e-mail list.

The Canadian High Commission in Wellington, New Zealand respectfully asks if en.wikimedia.org could update the following webpage

New_Zealand_order_of_precedence

to reflect that Mr. John Donaghy has departed New Zealand and is no longer High Commissioner. He has been replaced by Ms. Penny B. Reedie, with an accreditation date of 31 August 2005.

It would be greatly appreciated if I could be advised by email when the change has been enacted.

Thank you for your time and assistance in attending to this request.

Sincerely, Robin Mulder (Miss) Assistant to the High Commissioner / Adjointe de l'Haute Commissaire High Commission of Canada / L'haut commissariat du Canada Level 11, 125 The Terrace

The article was changed accordingly to reflect this advice. Capitalistroadster 00:37, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Queen of New Zealand, and list organization[edit]

From the introductory paragraph:

While the Queen herself is not listed in the order of precedence, as Queen of New Zealand she holds the highest precedence in New Zealand.

Quite frankly, this doesn't make sense. If she isn't in the NZ order of precedence, how can she have any precedence in NZ? Perhaps someone who knows more about this than I can clarify the matter.

Additionally, the way the list is organized seems rather awkward to me – the sub-lists consisting of only a single person are unnecessary, IMHO, and make the list much longer than it needs to be. Instead of:

  1. The Governor-General, or (whilst acting in the place of the Governor-General) the deputy of the Governor-General or the officer administering the Government
  2. The Prime Minister
  3. ...

I'd like to propose the following format:

  1. The Governor-General (Rt Hon Dame Sian Elias), or (whilst acting in the place of the Governor-General) the deputy of the Governor-General or the officer administering the Government
  2. The Prime Minister (Rt Hon Helen Clark)
  3. ...

Any feedback would be welcome. -Alkari 00:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the NZ order of precedence lists the precedence of those in/related to the Government of New Zealand (as in the traditional British/Commonwealth sense, that is, not the London Government nor the Royal Household, aka the Crown). In that respect the Governor-General of NZ (notionally, of course) is at the top of "The Government of New Zealand" and everything else flows down from him. The matter of including the "Crown" (again as a word for the Royal Household, and not the meaning used by the NZ press to describe the state) never arises as the GoNZ was not created as a royal institution.
Identical structuring can be seen (sometimes historically) in Canada, Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, India and the current British Overseas Territories. The Governors(-General) were notionally held to run the show, and did not formally include the Queen (as hard as it is to believe.)
I know I sound like a ranting idiot, but I cannot describe it any differently... 202.89.155.120 (talk) 04:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This may be not directly related, but the reference to the Queen has been reverted back to its previous form, with no disrespect intended to Ibalgi. The reason for the reversion is that while it may be common knowledge that the Queen is at the top, the actual list does not list her anywhere. "Conventionally accepted" precedence should be kept as such; its not our job to say what effect the convention has. Unless, of course, we put the "1." in brackets, but Mediawiki doesn't allow that at the moment. 202.89.155.120 (talk) 04:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the Queen isn't listed, than she shouldn't be listed here. What I objected to was placing her in the article lead as "first" but then not placing her in the list. She's either there or she's not.--Ibagli rnbs (Talk) 00:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I thought I would point out the anon. comment from 202.89.155.120 is incorrect. In Canada, the Queen is part of the OoP. While you don't see it in the list, if you read carefully, "The Governor General, under all circumstances, should be accorded precedence immediately after the Sovereign." The reason Hong Kong, Northern Ireland and any other British Overseas Territory does not list the Queen is because she's acting as the Queen of the United Kingdom reigning over those said territories as oppose to the Queen of Canada, Queen of Australia, etc which are legally distintive roles and thus no need to list the same role again--Cahk (talk) 04:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is why I noted "(sometimes historically)"... knowing that things never stay the same. 118.90.114.226 (talk) 12:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC) Extra: obviously there's no disagreement on where the Queen is usually placed; rather its whether or not she's in the official enumeration which is at issue. I think that you have just given an example--- if I am allowed to assume that the present-day Canadian OOP does not explicitly state the Head of State as No. 1, then the reason for the omission is with high probability the continuation of the traditional ordering which became established before the notion of "Queen of X" came into currency. 118.90.114.226 (talk) 12:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In any case, the Queen, as the Queen of New Zealand, would be given the highest OoP should she visits her realm. Whether or not she's officially listed on the OoP makes no difference as that's governed by International conventions and not bound by a list made by the Govt of NZ.--Cahk (talk) 19:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of ambassadors[edit]

Could I suggest that the list of ambassadors, high commissioners, and so forth be omitted? There a considerable number of them, and they come and go all the time, making it quite difficult to keep the list up-to-date — the Ministry of Foreign Affairs maintains a list which seems to be updated as changes occur, and linking to that would be easier than trying to play catch-up all the time with this page. Just a thought. -- Vardion 07:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I support that recommendation. Alkari (?) 03:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As there have been no objections, I've done so. -- Vardion 04:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Order Changes 2012[edit]

  • Position 9 - The Leader of the Opposition in the Parliament of New Zealand

Effective 13 December 2011 David Shearer was elected (by his party members in parliament) leader of the Labour Party and assumed the role of leader of the opposition. Change made 20 June 2012

To avoid creating new sections do you want to just add another entry to this section when a change is required?

Karl Stephens (talk) 08:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Position 10 - Privy Counsellors

Removed The Rt Hon. Sir Maurice Casey (1923-2012) and The Rt Hon. Sir Gordon Bisson (1918-2010) from list of Privy Counsellors.

Karl Stephens (talk) 14:39, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New order of precedence[edit]

Bad news - a new order of precedence has been issued. http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/dpmc/publications/order-of-precedence — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nznewsguy (talk • contribs) 03:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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