Talk:Lena Horne

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Current residence?[edit]

I'm wondering where Ms. Horne currently lives? This article says in New York, but the Amazon review (see the last part of the Washington Post write-up: http://www.amazon.com/Stormy-Weather-Life-Lena-Horne/dp/0743271432/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262102346&sr=1-1) of the recent biography on Lena Horne says "she languishes in seclusion in Southern California, now in her 93rd year"... WriterMonique (talk) 16:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The recent biography DOES NOT say she lives in Southern California, a REVIEW of the book provided that mis-information. Lena lives on the Upper east Side of Manhattan, which is in New York City. Preferred Brand (talk) 18:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gay Icon Project[edit]

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:52, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Major roles[edit]

She appeared in a number of MGM musicals, most notably Cabin in the Sky (also 1943), but was never featured in a leading role due to her race and the fact that films featuring her had to be reedited for showing in southern states where theatres could not show films with African American performers. As a result, most of Horne's film appearances were standalone sequences that had no bearing on the rest of the film, so editing caused no disruption to the storyline; a notable exception was the all-black musical Cabin in the Sky, though even then one of her numbers had to be cut because it was considered too suggestive by the censors -

.....I would debate the preceeding exerpt on account of the fact that Stormy Weather (1943) is also an all-black musical in which Horne clearly has the lead female role.

Stormy Weather wasn't an MGM musical. Nor was The Duke is Tops in which she was also in a major role. I was just referring to MGM films. And the source for the information is Horne herself in That's Entertainment III but I believe that's cited elsewhere. 23skidoo 17:47, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Biracial[edit]

she really does not look as if she could have all black. does anyone know anything about her ancestry?

Horne's parents were both black. - LBM 22:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Many African Americans look as if they could be part white. The reason for this is that many slave owners had sexual relations with their slaves. I have read things saying that for the most part, the majority of African Americans who are descended from slaves are at least 25% white.
Wait-there is a problem here...On the multiracial people list, she is cited as being African American, and Native American. I can't find anything on this...Someone else might want to try to look into it.
I suppose this was the result of supposition...

You are INCORRECT in your reference that most or "many" Americans of African ancestry are "fair" because of your implied rape scenario. Yes it did happen. However, contrary to what many American Whites would like to believe, there are millions of biracial Americans because of simply mixed couples. And If you consider yourself to be "White" and your history goes back more than 3 generations...you might be surprised at what your DNA holds. Too bad, even after 300 years Americans are STILL obsessed with color!

This is all needlessly confusing. Bi-racial is a cultural distinction, not an ethnic one. "Black" and "African-American" refer to the status of being descended from black and African-American people, and there's no requirement of purity for the distiction. "White" is the only term that has a purity standard to uphold, simply because the term was invented in order to exclude people. So you can use the term "bi-racial" to describe someone who has a distinctly white cultural upbringing, who is connected to white cultures and white privileges, but there's no need to enforce the term on someone just because they have European-American or Anglo-American ancestors. Lena Horne, like most African-Americans, has a complex ethnicity, but in every way that a person can be proud of being black, she is black; in every way that a person can be African-American, she is African-American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.142.138 (talk) 21:56, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I'm going to set this straight. First of all Lena Horne is multiracial. She is of African American, Caucasian, and Native American descent. There is no indication what she is of more. All of her heritage is equal. Therefore, to try to justify only calling her an African American is biased, wrong, knowingly disregarding the rest of her heritage, and continuing a negative cycle caused by the One Drop Rule. Even though most people whom are called or only want to be called African American are either bi or multiracial it is very difficult to get that information. It takes courage to not follow the crowd and speak of one's full heritage and not just African American. For example, Alicia Keys, Beyonce Knowles, Meagan Good, Terrance Howard, Keke Wyatt, Jimi Hendrix, and many more are people whom have spoken out on not just being African American. Their example should be followed.Mcelite (talk) 03:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing to "set straight" when it comes to how an individual identifies racially or ethnically. Race is socially constructed; there is no right or wrong, no purity, no rigid boundaries that divide each label from the next.
She is a black woman, African American specifically, of African, European and AmerIndian descent. We refer to her as African American because that is the community and identity she herself chooses. It is a socio-ethnic group that not only in no way implies "racial purity" but has for generations (often under different labels) implied a degree of non-African admixture merely due to the general history of the group.
African American is used as an overarching racial term in a society where "non-white" groups have generally been inclusive and amalgamated unlike "white" and is also an ethnic/cultural label for Americans of African descent with a certain shared heritage.
There is nothing incorrect about Ms. Horne choosing a particular racial or ethnic identity, especially ones that in no way excludes her full ancestry but does represent the range of lived experiences and community her family chose to be a part of.
The "One Drop Rule" emerged long after the identity and community formation that brought together folks of varying degrees of African descent into families and communities and beyond to a socio-cultural and political identity generally delimited as a "race".

It is in no way difficult to discover the existence of non-African lines in African American families. Tons of families have members of widely varying appearances and will tell you about ascendants who were of 'mixed' parentage or just non-black. A lot of folks don't know the specifics back generations but that is a general issue if many of one's ancestors were chattel. There is almost a generation of genetic and population research that argues over 95% of African Americans have non-African ancestry.
So it is not now, nor has it ever been a general secret.

Heritage goes beyond genetics, 'race', and blood quantum. It only takes courage to identify as one wishes and for many that is 'African American' because it speaks to a culture, history and identity that merged together all kinds of diversity from social to economic, linguistic, religious, ethnic... racial. And if you admit that the majority of African Americans have mixed ancestry what would be the point or benefit of encouraging them to take courage and call themselves "mixed" if they don't perceive their social identities as such, or list a cookie recipe list of nationalities, tribes, ethnicities they may or may not identify with or feel impact their social identities if it is already known that black/AA can include all of that?
Should the same be demanded of Latinos, Native Americans, 'whites' (at least a third of white Americans), Arabs... Italians, Ethiopians, Filipinos...
(and what about the individuals that are of mixed parentage or backgrounds that do feel dual or multiple identities, what relation do they have to African Americans who are 4 generations removed from their last non-black ancestor and feel they are of one heritage? Color, hair, features aren't enough.)
any community, identity, heritage, ethnicity, tribe, etc of today is born of some amalgamation of different groups of the past.

It only seems to be an issue for folks when individuals willingly identify as black and/or African American when they are believed to have "better" options Karayan1103 (talk) 21:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem stems from people putting African American above the rest of their heritage that composes who they are. It's like what a good friend os mine said which makes complete since is that people who only want to identify as African American or believe it dominates other races in the bloodline have a lack of pride issue. A person should be able to have strong pride in not only being African American but Native American heritage which most have to some extent or even European American descent (even though some will never except that due to obvious reasons i.e. rape). The point is that attitude needs to be changed. African American has truly become more of a cultural thing than actual race even though there are some Americans that truly can call themselves African American because they have no ad-mixture at all. Even though it is becoming much more excepting for people to want to claim all of their heritage people with an AFrican American background still catch alot of heat from fellow members who share the same mixed background. So that makes it hard to develop pride when your own people go against the truth.Mcelite (talk) 23:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It has nothing to do with ranking, denying or pride in certain 'races', ethnicities, nationalities, cultures that may be a part of one's ancestry its about identity and how communities, identities and cultures are established. Lena Horne acknowledged the diversity of her ancestry while establishing an identity based on her recent heritage, family culture and personal experiences.

Most Americans who call themselves black or African American perceive themselves and their community as being an amalgam; the result of numerous and diverse West and Central African ethnicities, along with Europeans, varied white American cultural groups, AmerIndian tribes and even some East Asian ethnicities thrown in. The name simply refers to a specific identity, community and heritage that emerged with the clash and melding of so many different peoples within a specifically US context and history. (Calling myself English, Irish, Bubi, Mende, Fang, Akan, African, Anglo-African, white American, Negro, colored, mulatto, quadroon, octoroon, black, African American, Confederate, Southerner and whatever other labels ancestors used to describe their identities is pointless because that list means nothing to me and who I am now. Far as I'm concerned all that came together to make my black/African American family. I prefer to call myself the chocolate chip cookie rather than list all the ingredients that go into the bowl to get mixed in together to make the cookie.)

Most all Americans who call themselves Irish-, German-, Italian- American also have ancestors that aren't of that background. No one names off every single thing in their family tree. People either identify with select parts of their heritage... or, they become part of communities that develop new identities and heritages while absorbing a variety of people (which is the case with African Americans).

Individuals who feel strong ties to multiple identities do so and are able to proudly proclaim multiple identities or composite ones. There are communities in the US that acknowledge they are of African ancestry but do not identify with a specific African ethnicity, as black, as African American or as 'mixed'. There are Narangassett that look like African Americans, Louisiana Creoles that "look black", and not to mention the West Indian and Latin American folks for whom culture is more salient than race. Are they wrong from calling themselves Narangassett, Lumbee, Native American, Creole, Latina, Dominican, Jamaican, etc... instead of mixed, multiracial, part black, part African American, or listing every different group that merged to create their present communities?

The main issue is people identify for themselves; its based on one's own heritage and culture and upbringing. Why do you care if people who have backgrounds like you or look like you call themselves black racially and/or perhaps African American ethnically? What do you care if some people don't like what you call yourself, it doesn't change who you are and what you find important in your background? (just like all this fuss won't make lighter complected blacks start labeling themselves and identifying with bi-/multi-racials) Strangers can not dictate that you be black or African American just like you cannot dictate that Lena Horne or any other African American of a certain appearance or knowledge of non-African ancestry be required to refer to themselves as multiracial, or to list out every aspect of their family tree regardless of sense of heritage and personal identity.

There is no right and wrong or set rules when it comes to ethnic, cultural and racial identity. Its all socially constructed, and as such highly variable. Instead of battling to force people into new boxes the freedom and variability of identity should be recognized and RESPECTED. Karayan1103 (talk) 20:33, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lena Mary Calhoun Horne was born June 30, 1917, in the New York City borough of Brooklyn. Both sides of her family claimed a mixture of African-Amerian and cherokee ancestry.

Lena is a decendant of John C. Calhoun. He was a very staunch slavery supporter before the American Civil War in South Carolina. She still has relatives in south carolina,with the last name of calhoun who live in the areas around which john c. calhoun lived.

I might also add: many bi-racial persons choose to call themselves black because "blacks will accept the white part more easily than whites will accept the black part. Many bi-racials just take the easier road and call themselves black. If you have any "white" in you, you are not black but a mixture. If you have any "black" in you, you are not white but a mixture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.188.55 (talk) 02:19, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

African American is referring to the culture one identifies with. How, and why this is complicated for white people to understand is a stem of their deep rooted racism in themselves. Perhaps they are jealous? None the less, she identifies , like Barrak Obama, as being African American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkman1984 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All of Horne's grandparents were categorized as Black. She has also said, “My identity is very clear to me now. I am a black woman. I’m free. I no longer have to be a ‘credit.’ I don’t have to be a symbol to anybody; I don’t have to be a first to anybody. I don’t have to be an imitation of a white woman that Hollywood sort of hoped I’d become. I’m me, and I’m like nobody else.” citied in the New York Times obituary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Umichquiche (talk • contribs) 14:35, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Racism[edit]

At the moment, the article says "never featured in a leading role because of her ethnicity". As someone rightly pointed out (section "#Biracial"), ethnicity is not the same as race. I point out that, in the U.S. at least, racism is not the same as ethnic prejudice; it has different origins and significance (and IMO is much deeper ingrained in society). It was her race and the existing racism that was the cause. I am modifying the article to say so. Zaslav (talk) 19:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The only "race" is the human race. I think saying she was denied roles because of her ethnic background is more correct than saying it was because of her race. "They" could have acknowledged her mixed background, but didn't because she clearly identified more with her African American heritage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.201.42 (talk) 22:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chart success?[edit]

Did Lena Horne ever have chart success as a singer during the 1940s and 50s? I made the assumption that her song "Stormy Weather" was a hit, so I said so in her biography. Will someone with information about this please reply back to me at my talk page or this discussion page. LovePatsyCline 16:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While SW was certainly her "breakthrough" song, perhaps even her "signature" song, before videotape in the 1970s the odds of seeing Stormy Weather were very slim. Instead, as Youtube will now show, Lena Horne was a great television presence for four decades. Youtube makes those great television performances available for the first time. Ms. Horne will have a new career there, and it becomes possible to teach her work to a class. Certainly one of the most beautiful women of the 20th century -- and neither Garbo nor Bergman could sing!-- Horne's beauty lasted far into her seventies. And she was famous for it. Why are people bashful to mention that in this article? It isn't sexist. It's historical. Failing to mention Ms. Horne's beauty is a bit like celebrating Garbo's acting without mentioning her most famous attribute. I'll wait to hear objections, but I think the article should recognize that. Profhum 02:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)profhum[reply]

Long-standing vandalism[edit]

I've just restored an entire section that was deleted by 152.26.43.6 (talk) on 1 October! How is it that in nearly three months nobody noticed that it was missing, and that the article had her going abruptly from dropping out of high school to becoming "disenchanted with Hollywood" (when was she ever there?) and deciding on a "change of direction" (from what?)? -- Zsero (talk) 14:06, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed and wondered why someone deleted it, for what reason? because they could?

I also noticed that sections on this subject have contained numerous incorrect entires and ommitted biographical and career info until last year. Lena's nightclub and television career were not even mentioned until recently. They had her rejected by Hollywood and reappearing on Sesame Street. That's a laugh. I believe that some people have an agenda and use Ms. Horne's bio to further it.

If anyone can help with the REFERENCES section please do. Has it been locked so no more can be shown? So mis-information can be promoted? What I added today is very important info that was verified by the star herself, if anyone cares to check. Preferred Brand (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

THE ENTIRE FIRST SECTION WAS RE-WRITTEN as a shortened verion of the entire bio. Do you have a copy of the ORIGINAL first paragraph to upload?

DO NOT MAKE UP BULL SHIT or I will change it.

Ed Bradley interview[edit]

(Copying & rewording own post from Talk:Ed Bradley) http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4683607n&tag=mncol;lst;9 (excerpt only) says that their interview date was 12/27/81; Horne would have been 64, Bradley 40. I have put this interview mention on the Ed Bradley talk page (incorrect age for Bradley had been cited there, although maybe a mistake on Bradley's part); this interview provided the "file footage" for 1991 60 Minutes: The Entertainers, and their 25th (and other) anniversary special segments with her. Bradley implies this was his finest work, where Horne bares her soul. 75.204.151.21 (talk) 23:17, 25 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lena's burial

Lena's Burial[edit]

Lena Horne was buried in the Horne Family plot at the Evergreens Cemetary in Brooklyn NY. Someone has been changing Lena's burial info to that she was CREMATED while using a fictitous link to Roger Ebert's bio (!) as reference. This is totally fabricated. Gareth E Kegg - if you have a true ref, a REAL ref - post it. 12-28-10 Preferred Brand (talk) 23:47, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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60 Minutes Piece[edit]

One of my favorite 60 Minutes segments of all times is the Lena Horn profile done by Ed Bradly. It should be referenced here, because it is a very special piece on a great artist and in it she reveals a lot about herself. Also, she and Ed Bradley, who obviously adored her, were practically making love during the taping, I swear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.80.240.225 (talk) 21:41, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

60 Minutes Piece[edit]

One of my favorite 60 Minutes segments of all times is the Lena Horne profile done by Ed Bradly. I think this piece aired in the early nineties. It should ve referenced here, because it is a very special piece on a great artist and in it she reveals a lot about herself. Also, she and Ed Bradley, who obviously adored her, were practically making love during the taping, I swear.

That's charming! Written sources are preferred though. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Use of "Broadway" vs. "Show tune" as a vocal genre[edit]

Why is one of Horne's musical genres specified as "Broadway"? It seems very convoluted to have that term link to wikipedia article for "Broadway" as an artform/location, instead of Broadway music as a musical GENRE! I'm sorry but I don't get it. It seems like it would be better to use the genre term "Show tune" instead for her and other similar artists. Because many song stylists have sung songs from Broadway musicals as standalone songs, as opposed to them being actual Broadway performances. In other words, in this context they are being sung as show tunes, or pop standards, or songs from the Great American songbook. It would make more sense to have the "genre" redirect to the page for "Show tunes". What do you do with famous pop singers who have also performed parts of their career actually IN the Broadway casts on stage? We need to think about having some consistency for all of them to be entered in the same genre because "Broadway" is not established as an official music genre on Wikipedia. If it were, this would not be an issue. I just don't like seeing Broadway being used as a musical genre where it redirects to the "theatrical context" of Broadway instead of the "musical genre context". Barbra Streisand is another example on wikipedia where one of her genres used is currently "Broadway". There are way too many singers to check on this to see that those genres are consistent. You could spend all day with it. And somebody is of course not going to agree along the way... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.17.129.78 (talk) 00:11, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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