Talk:Ivan Illich

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History of Pain[edit]

several web pages refer to a "history of pain" that Illich was about to publish in 2003 in France. Was this ever published? by whom?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,856395,00.html

He was able to finish a history of pain which will be published in French next year, as will his complete works

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/et-illic.htm

He was able to finish a history of pain (which will be published in French in 2003).

http://webs.lanset.com/aeolusaero/Articles/Mayday%20Cafe--Apr%2004--Ivan%20Illich.htm

The last 10 years of his life were spent coping with a very painful cancerous condition, from which he managed to distill a treatise on the 'history of pain' (published last year in France) before his death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vernier (talk • contribs) (02:50, 23 May 2004)

'Worldwide notoriety:' POV or what!?[edit]

Whether Ivan Illich's views are globally 'notorious' or evocative of a lone, prophetic voice crying in the wilderness surely depends on POV? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.1.99.42 (talk • contribs) (10:35, 16 August 2007)

Ivan Illich:Hero/Guiding Light of Wikipedia?[edit]

Rather than being dismissed as someone of global 'notoriety,' shouldn't Ivan Illich have special, Hero of Wikipedia status? After all, his general contention that various authorities and professions should be closely and sceptically examined and questioned is surely at one with the revolutionary founding principle of encyclopedias in general, and Wikipedia in particular? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.86.123.67 (talk • contribs) (16:16, 16 August 2007)

Deschooling Society 'dated?'[edit]

The Deschooling Society section says, 'Full of detail on then-current programs and concerns, the book can seem dated.' This is a POV non sequitur, in the sense that some readers might actually want and appreciate the contemporaneous historical detail in support of Illich's contentions. I suggest instead: '...is of its time.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.16.108 (talk • contribs) (19:08, 18 August 2007)

Can anyone clear up the personal-history enigmas?[edit]

Illich, at some point in his life, comes to espouse ideas of informal learning, face-to-face community, decentralization, ad hoc & creative dealing with circumstance. These sorts of ideas are central to his critique and are abundant in his well-known writings.

Yet he starts out in life with a lot of schooling, becomes an assistant Roman-Catholic priest, and is given a role of responsibility within the Catholic Church in Puerto Rico!

How does his personal evolution occur? How does Illich succeed within "schooling" culture, yet come to be convinced of the crucial importance of a high ratio of informal to formal learning (in the lives of individuals and communities)? Perhaps of even greater curiosity: how does he shift from carrying out an assigned role within the enormous, hierarchical, top-down, dogmatic Roman-Catholic system to his adherence to the folksy, poetic-imaginative, decentralized, localist position—for which he was one of the most influential spokespersons of recent decades?