Talk:Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria

Names
	Franz Ferdinand Karl Ludwig Josef Maria

Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Archduke of Austria-Este
	Ferdinand c. 1914
Born	18 December 1863; Graz, Austrian Empire
Died	28 June 1914 (aged 50); Sarajevo, Austria-Hungary
Burial	4 July 1914; Artstetten Castle
Spouse	Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg (m. 1900)
Issue	Princess Sophie of Hohenberg; Maximilian, Duke of Hohenberg; Prince Ernst of Hohenberg;
Names
Names
	Franz Ferdinand Karl Ludwig Josef Maria
House	Habsburg-Lorraine
Father	Archduke Karl Ludwig of Austria
Mother	Princess Maria Annunciata of Bourbon-Two Sicilies
Religion	Roman Catholicism
Occupation	Archduke of Austria
Signature

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 90 days

Biography: Military / Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility (assessed as High-importance).

Military history: Biography / European / World War I

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	European military history task force
	World War I task force

Austria High‑importance

	Austria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Austria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles about Austria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.AustriaWikipedia:WikiProject AustriaTemplate:WikiProject AustriaAustria articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former countries: Austria-Hungary

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
	This article is supported by the Austria-Hungary task force (assessed as Top-importance).

On 11 May 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

On 10 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Franz Ferdinand. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2021[edit]

Collapsing to stop the infobox draft from clipping through other sections of the talk page. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 12:02, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Greti123 (talk) 14:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand Karl Ludwig Josef Maria of Austria (18 December 1863 – 28 June 1914) was the heir presumptive to the throne of Austria-Hungary.^[1] His assassination in Sarajevo is considered the most immediate cause of World War I.

  Greti123 (talk) 14:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:23, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Brook-Shepherd, Gordon (1987). Royal Sunset: The European Dynasties and the Great War. Doubleday. p. 139. ISBN 978-0-385-19849-3.

Introduction[edit]

The introduction says, "His assassination in Sarajevo is was the most immediate cause of World War I." The "is was" part doesn't look like it is correct. I think it should be "was".
Mscreations (talk) 22:12, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's been

Fixed. DonIago (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 May 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Editors supported various alternatives titles, including the current one, with no consensus for any of them. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 13:40, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria → Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Isn't he the only Archduke Franz Ferdinand? Jishiboka1 (talk) 05:07, 11 May 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 14:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to Franz Ferdinand per WP:SOVEREIGN. BilledMammal (talk) 09:31, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So this depends on if 'Archduke Franz Ferdinand' or 'Franz Ferdinand' is the common name per WP:SOVEREIGN point 2—blindlynx 14:04, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ngrams may be of use here. "Franz Ferdinand" will always get more hits than "Archduke Franz Ferdinand" since the former is a proper substring of the latter. The linked query shows what percentage of occurrences of "Franz Ferdinand" are immediately preceded by "Archduke". For most years this hovers around 50%. Data after 2003 or so may be polluted by references to the band. Colin M (talk) 17:22, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alternative Franz Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria, since "Archduke" and "Austria" are disambiguatory information, they should follow the name -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 11:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That specific style seems to refer to people who were the rulers of the Archduchy of Austria, of which Franz Ferdinand was not. 67.173.23.66 (talk) 22:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nominator. KevinNov3 (talk) 12:48, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Austria has been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 14:14, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment - relisted because I see 3 viable options, the nom Archduke Franz Ferdinand and one supporter, Franz Ferdinand and Franz Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria. Per WP:OTHEROPTIONS, a closer is able to choose, but it still seems a bit close at the moment. ASUKITE 14:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I cannot see a problem that this move would solve, and whereas the current title evokes an immediate recollection of who we are talking about, plain "Franz Ferdinand" could be anyone. Could possibly be the goldfish who lived in our hall from the late fifties. Imaginatorium (talk) 05:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ferdinand in Canton, China on Monday, 24 July, 1893[edit]

Photo of his visit to Canton. https://hpcbristol.net/visual/Hv40-43 222.152.178.243 (talk) 07:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Fall 2023 HIST 401[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 September 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cameron USCG, WingstopRanchFan (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by WingstopRanchFan (talk) 02:36, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 December 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. you are completely correct; withdrawing. (closed by non-admin page mover) House Blaster^talk 13:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria → Franz Ferdinand – WP:SOVEREIGN says that Article titles are not normally prefixed with "King", "Queen", "Emperor" or equivalent and Only use a territorial designation (e.g. country) when disambiguation is needed. House Blaster^talk 01:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - At the very least without mentioning the country, he's better known as Archduke Franz Ferdinand. GoodDay (talk) 08:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment There is no need to mention the country for disambiguation reasons. The title of the Archduke was used exclusively by members of the House of Habsburg, and always in reference to the Archduchy of Austria. Dimadick (talk) 20:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. He's not a sovereign, so WP:SOVEREIGN doesn't apply. The relevant naming convention is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#Other royals. Current title meets policy criteria at Wikipedia:Article titles. DrKay (talk) 08:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per prior posters.2601:249:9301:D570:186:3FF3:D362:9FD1 (talk) 02:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per all those opposing, the Archduke was not a sovereign. Richiepip (talk) 04:38, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Brook-Shepherd, Gordon (1987). Royal Sunset: The European Dynasties and the Great War. Doubleday. p. 139. ISBN 978-0-385-19849-3.

[1]