Talk:Lumpy Gravy

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Wharmby, George (October 4, 2012). "An Epic Review of Frank Zappa's first 12 albums OR Universal, what's got into ya?". Louder Than War. Retrieved October 12, 2022.
Wolk, Douglas (May 22, 1995). "Flashback" (PDF). CMJ New Music Monthly (428): 18. Retrieved October 12, 2022.
https://www.jazzwise.com/review/frank-zappa-lumpy-money-project-object
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/frank-zappa-interview
Miles, Barry (2004). Zappa: A Biography. New York City, New York, US: Grove Press. p. 140. ISBN 9780802117830. Retrieved October 12, 2022.
Hardy, Phil; Laing, Phil (1995). "Frank Zappa". The Da Capo Companion to 20th-century Popular Music. Boston, Massachusetts, US: Da Capo Press. p. 1,035. ISBN 9780306806407. Retrieved October 12, 2022.
Rees, Dafydd (1991). Rock Movers & Shakers. Santa Barbara, California, US: ABC-Clio. p. 583. ISBN 0874366615. Retrieved October 12, 2022.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220410133013/https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/lumpy-gravy-183500/
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/the-rock--roll-disc-interview-frank-zappa
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/francis-vincent-zappa--the-abnuceals-emuukha-electric-symphony-orchestra-and-chorus-lumpy-gravy-verve
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/undercurrents-7-fables-of-the-deconstruction
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/frank-zappa-surreal-anarchy-from-the-mother-superior

Release date[edit]

AMG seems to have got this wrong. They say December 1967 [1] (and make a point of it coming before We're Only in It for the Money), but Rykodisc say '68 [2]; as does this page. Please fix this if I've made a mistake. Flower party 07:31, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It came out in 1967 on an 8-track tape, and then was withdrawn after MGM threatened Capitol with a lawsuit. It was subsequently reedited and reissued. --WTF (talk) 03:08, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Lumpy Gravy Capitol tape from 1967 is NOT an 8-track cartridge! It is was released as a 4-track cartridge tape also known as Stereo-Pak. The 4-track cartridges were a forerunner to the more successful 8-track cartridge system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rondo66 (talk • contribs) 08:26, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should give also the re-issue date as the album is much more well known as the re-issue version than the original withdrawn version. 87.95.77.37 (talk) 08:48, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the statement above, except what he's calling a reissue is not a reissue. The authors of this page do not seem to understand how different the two versions of the album are. Lumpy Gravy as we all know it was released in May, 1968. The cartridge release, apparently in 1967 (the exact details of its release have never been known and this article only cites one source on the matter), is a different album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:FDF0:9ED0:CC5:A0A3:1F55:66D0 (talk) 13:34, 10 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Clapton?[edit]

See this page - section titled "The People Inside The Piano". I'll let you decide what to do with it. - MightyMoose22 01:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I don't think he should be in the credits. That page says Frank himself clarified the error, so that's probably the best answer anyone can give. I'm going to take him off unless/until there is proof found that Clapton was on it. No sense in creating false hope and excitement every time someone sees that. War machine09 02:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clapton was one of the piano people voices. He's saying "God, it's God, I see God!" on We're Only in It for the Money. --WTF (talk) 22:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WPBiograhy banner[edit]

I removed the {{WikiProject Biography}} as this article deals not with an individual person, but an orchestra composed of many persons. --Ozgod 06:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that WikiProject Musicians, as an integrated part of WPBiography, does use the WPBiography banner's flag "|musician-work-group=yes" which adds the following text to the banner: This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia.. Best regards, BNutzer 07:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I removed the WPBiography tag is because this article contains no biographical information and functions as a list. The WPBiography tag should be added to the individual pages of the performers of the orchestra. --Ozgod 12:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that the article as it is now does not contain biographical information, but this article may be expanded to give a reasonable amount of information on the group for an encyclopedic entry. - cgilbert^{(talk|contribs)} 16:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other uses of the term[edit]

Lumpy Gravy, almost certainly named after the album, was a restaurant in Hollywood owned by Klasky-Csupo Animation during the 1990s. Gabor Csupo was a good friend of Zappa. knoodelhed 08:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bogus Information[edit]

This article previously was full of bogus information. Though it is possible that the group existed without a name in 1959 the first ensemble with this name was created by Frank Zappa in 1967 for use on his Lumpy Gravy album. If there are any available references to this group from before 1967 they need to be documented here. The name of this orchestra was also used by Zappa for musicians he hired for his Orchestra Favorites album in 1975 (the album was released in 1979.) The only documented evidence I could find of recordings with The Chipmunks that use this name date from 1983, not 1959! This certainly seems to suggest that the name came much later than the 1959 session. Removed unnecessary links to musicians who do not already have a Wikipedia article and re-organized article to show who participated in each of the major sessions known so far. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoni4316 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Phase 2"[edit]

Re: On the back cover of Lumpy Gravy, Frank says in a speech bubble, "Is this phase 2 of We're Only in It for the Money?"

I thought it was the other way around, with Zappa saying in a speech bubble on the back of We're Only in It for the Money: "Is this phase 2 of Lumpy Gravy?". Maybe they were both there. I used to have the album, but Katrina got it. Shocking Blue (talk) 09:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Money is phase one of Lumpy Gravy, while Lumpy Gravy is phase 2 of Money. Although Lumpy Gravy was issued first, in its all-orchestral incarnation, the edited version of the album serves as phase 2, as Money and the edited version of Lumpy Gravy were edited simultaneously. --WTF (talk) 20:33, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Much of the confusion about Lumpy Gravy and We're Only in It for the Money was introduced after Frank Zappa's death by Gail, who's opinion it was that LG was intended to be first and thus changed the release numbers to #3 for LG and #4 for WOIIFTM. But, as pointed out above LG may have been released first, but in its primordial unedited form, which didn't make sense as an adjunct to WOIIFTM.

After the original LG on Capitol Records was withdrawn, FZ set about to edit together a much different LG album, which ended up much, much more than the original LG as part 2 of the concept of WOIIFTM, which he was also editing alongside. My opinion of course, is that Gail had no business messing with history. It was what it was, as managed by Frank Zappa at the time. Geoffpointer (talk) 02:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing predicate[edit]

However, upon meeting Zappa, who handed the musicians the scores for the pieces, which were dense, complex and varied in time signatures. Can someone who knows what that sentence is supposed to be please fix it? Thanks. --Zahzuhzaz (talk) 23:17, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Lumpy Gravy/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

All the start class criteria

Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
Y At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section)
Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs
Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
Y Categorisation at least by artist and year
Y A casual reader should learn something about the album.

Andrzejbanas (talk) 07:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 07:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 22:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Carol Kaye probably did not play on Lumpy Gravy[edit]

According to the original Lumpy Gravy LP cover, Carol Kaye is not listed as a member of the Abnuceals Emuukha Electric Symphony Orchestra. In fact the page about that ensemble linked on this page, does not list her. Also, the page for this album at the official Zappa website does not list Carol Kaye either. I can't prove definitively, that she either did or did not play on Lumpy Gravy, but that she did not seems most likely, so the author claiming here that she did, should check their sources. She did play 12-string guitar on Freak Out, apparently, as that is on the Freak Out cover, along with others from the AEESO, so this may be the source of some of the confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoffpointer (talk • contribs) 03:08, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please sign all your talk page messages with four tildes (~~~~) — See Help:Using talk pages. Thanks.

@Geoffpointer: I agree, there's no trace at [3]. Good find. - DVdm (talk) 19:03, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain to me what I did wrong that needed your editing of this post. This is not a complaint, I just want to make sure I fully understand.Geoffpointer (talk) 01:50, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Track listing[edit]

I compared the track listings (as currently given in the article) of the 1967 and 1968 versions, and I don't see any common titles at all. That would suggest that these are completely different albums. Or did Zappa retain some of the pieces and just give them different names? 04:40, 16 June 2022 (UTC)~

Swapping covers[edit]

While the original cover of any release would almost always appear at the top of the infobox, and the alternate cover at the bottom, wouldn't this be a scenario where the 1967 sleeve should swap places with the 1968 one? That is easily the more recognisable cover because its the much better-known version of the album, the one which all the literature is indebted to as that is the 'official' version after all. Any thoughts?--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 03:55, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Split proposal[edit]

There's enough coverage and information to split the 1967 and 1968 releases into separate articles, as it's blatantly clear that the 1967 and 68 releases are separate albums, one being an album of orchestral instrumental music and the other being a musique concrete album. The sources are describing two different albums with the same name. RockabillyRaccoon (talk) 18:39, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Apocalypse Now and Apocalypse Now Redux having two separate articles sets a precedent for there to be two separate articles on Lumpy Gravy (1967 album) and Lumpy Gravy (1968 album), even if you consider the latter a different edition of the same album, because alternate versions of albums can be notable enough to have their own articles if they are significantly covered by reliable sources, which the two Lumpy Gravy releases were, in addition to the earlier 1967 album having been reissued on vinyl for Record Store Day and as part of Lumpy Money, which itself is a reissue of two/three albums that has it's own article. RockabillyRaccoon (talk) 20:46, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one objected, I split the articles myself. RockabillyRaccoon (talk) 21:24, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]