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Epicgenius I found that this bit of text: Brightly lit by numerous digital billboards and advertisements as well as businesses offering 24/7 service, Times Square is sometimes referred to as "the Crossroads of the World"," the Center of the Universe", "the heart of the Great White Way", "the Center of the Entertainment Universe", and "the heart of the world". is both undue and promotional. It is undue because it does not have enough significance to take a whole paragraph in the lead, and it is promotional because these alternative names are not frequently used by locals themselves (did you ever say that the Times Square is "the Crossroads of the World"?), but instead used by those that aims to promote the Times Square by using easy-to-remember mnemonics. Also, look at Britannica article about the Square, and you can see no mention of these nicknames, probably for good reasons. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that these nicknames should go away entirely if it is somewhat frequently used by locals, but it's just not a suitable content for the lead. Also, think of other perspectives as well: would you feel comfortable if the second paragraph of Hanoi list all of its nicknames? We do have nicknames like "the City of Peace" and such, but that would quickly be dismissed by patrollers as being promotional and undue content. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point - I honestly didn't notice that it was a full paragraph in the lead, let alone that it was the second paragraph (I only glanced at the diff of your removal). What if we moved this down to a dedicated section, e.g. "Nicknames", or integrate it with another section like "History"? – Epicgenius (talk) 15:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's ok to me, but I think its better to get info about where is these nicknames come from. If these nicknames are formed organically from the locals, then I think it might be due enough to list the most prominent name in the last paragraph of the lead. I think integrating the content to the History section is a good idea too, but again we need to know when these terms were first made, and under what circumstances (aka is the terms made by the locals, politicians or entrepreneurs?) CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know "the Crossroads of the World" and "the Heart of the Great White Way" are more commonly used by locals, but anecdotally I have never heard any New Yorker use the other three nicknames ("the Center of the Universe", "the Center of the Entertainment Universe", and "the heart of the world"). So perhaps we should remove these, although I plan to add some context to the two remaining nicknames later. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@CactiStaccingCrane, why do you think this content is promotional? From what I can tell, the sources do not appear to be press releases, as you imply in your edit summary. At least threeofthese sources appear to be books, which do verify one of the nicknames (the Great White Way is a commonly known nickname for Broadway, so "the heart of the Great White Way" is actually a reasonable description).
To be fair, some of the other nicknames are sourced to dubious sources like Forbes, or worse, aren't sourced at all. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're promotional. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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