Talk:The Joy Luck Club (novel)

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Source Accessibility[edit]

I've noticed that the Random house External link is down, and searching their site I could not find the web page specified, let alone anything about the Joy Luck Club —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nohano (talk • contribs) 18:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracies and Inauthenticy[edit]

There are also quite a few inaccuracies in general in The Joy Luck Club, mainly having to do with the authors attempt to establish verisimilitude. One notable example is in a passage where one of the mother characters mis-hears the word "fucking" as "Fukien," which is a joke that would only work if the character spoke a dialect other that what she was purported to speak -- not to mention the fact that the two terms sound so different as to stretch credulity beyond acceptable limits. This and other problematic passages have raised questions with the authenticity of the book from a number of critics over the years, but being relatively new to Wikipedia, I'm not sure how controversies are usually handled, so I'll defer on the matter for now. Sangrito 23:05, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One notable example is in a passage where one of the mother characters mis-hears the word "fucking" as "Fukien," which is a joke that would only work if the character spoke a dialect other that what she was purported to speak -- not to mention the fact that the two terms sound so different as to stretch credulity beyond acceptable limits.

Oh wow. I didn't even notice that whole "fucking"/"Fukien" thing. I do remember reading that part and I was like, "What?" (why is he so specific in insulting her?) It doesn't really make sense... but I just let it go because I thought that he was probably Chinese too, and Chinese are very racist towards each other if we can't speak the same dialect as the other person.

Um, "fucking" actually does sound like "Fukien" in an Asian accent. If you have a European/White/American/Australian accent when you speak English, "fucking" and "Fukien" won't sound similar at all. But it will in an Asian or even Mexican accent. ― 梁燁文 ★彡 Refill/lol 04:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

these are all interesting comments, but they have no direct bearing on the article. If someone is inspired by this discussion to find a reliable source discussing the novels authenticity, that can be added, but our speculation, no matter now informed, is irrelevant to an encyclopedia article. this is NOT a forum for discussing the book. (mercurywoodrose)50.193.19.66 (talk) 17:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Depictions of Gender[edit]

can a section be added on the controversy surrounding the novel? e.g. the depiction of asian males. Theconroy 07:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It should be.
The problem is that there's an anti-Asian stereotype of evil or uncaring Asian men, but there's also a feminist stereotype of evil or uncaring men (of all races). Many of the sources that normally complain about racial stereotypes won't complain about this one because they buy into the feminist stereotype.
So there aren't a lot of printed references about the controversy. Ken Arromdee 17:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Really? Why is it that the Asian females in this book only go for WHITE males if there are no racial stereotypes? Why is it that Amy Tan herself despises Asian culture and is married to a white guy? There are definite stereotypes played out in this book, and there are definitely sources that explain it. For this book to be read by little kids around the country is a travesty. It's plain racist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yaofan15 (talk • contribs) 04:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
Remember, there was a bad guy among the whites too. --Zslevi 14:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Protagonists" and "antagonists" exist for every nationality and gender depicted in this book. There are stereotypes, as in any book where race and identity are a major elements of the story, but the book can hardly be called "racist".--Wikipope 19:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's an alright story about mother-daughter relationships, yes, but unfortunately it does play out as favoring white caucasians and depicting Chinese culture as shameful, or at best a burden. I know the very first time I saw the movie as a little boy, there was something very 'wrong' to me about the depictions of race and gender, it was intuitive to me the imbalance. I imagine, if a black author wrote a story about abusive black men and their daughters marrying white guys happily, it would draw more criticism. But generally when it comes to Asians, there is not that association of race, just kinda off-white, hahah. I do think it's a good story about mothers and daughters, and some families. But it is unfortunately the most 'exposure' of an Asian family in US media. Which is just terrible, because those families are all screwy with crazy daughters. Like if the only thing you knew about blacks were gangster rap. Lots of black people don't like the prominence of gangster rap in depicting their people It's unfortunate this has to be "THE Asian American novel". I guess it's kinda like how some black people feel about violent gangster rap. That's the best way to put it. There's nothin necessarily wrong with making music about drug deals and shooting cops, but it's an unpleasant association for the race. So yeah, Amy Tan's Joy Luck Club is like the negativity of gangster rap and BET, except for Asians.

I've heard Amy Tan's written other novels with positive depictions of Asian males, but they are hardly as popular. 

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.111.210.134 (talk) 03:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the criticisms of Asian men are actually in the movie and not in the book. Of the women, Ying-Ying, who married a Caucasian and had an earlier marriage in China, was unhappy in both. In fact, the Caucasian she married is represented as a problem because he tries to impose his culture on her to the point of even changing her name and "translating" her, which is thematically a clear attack on Western impositions on other cultures. Her daughter Lena, who married another Caucasian that was inexplicably changed to an Asian in the film, was unhappy for the same reasons and her story was about learning the strength to stand up for herself. Rose married a Causcasian and the whole point of her story was that same as Lena's, which was strength in the face of his divorce (the movie changed this to a reconciliation while the book still had them divorcing but with Rose successfully fighting him so she could keep her house in the proceedings.) Su-Yuan and Lindo both married Asian men and had no trouble with them, though Lindo had a lot of trouble from a domineering mother-in-law before getting out of her first marriage. An-Mei moved to America but also married an Asian man, with the most threatening figure in her life being a manipulative woman. Waverly married one Caucasian and misread her mother to the point that the marriage failed, while her second relationship was with another Caucasian and was approved by her mother. June didn't marry anyone.

As for the supposedly anti-Chinese slant, that's not in the book either. It's a strong story about the drastic contrast between a child growing up in a culture vastly different from that of their parents, which if anything isn't all that new as a literary theme. Through June and Waverly's stories in particular, the theme is not of Chinese culture being a burden, but treating it as a part of themselves and accepting it. June's trip to China, in her words, is about her becoming Chinese. But they all grew up in America too, and didn't even speak their mother's native tongues, which was symbolic of the barriers placed between the mothers and the daughters.

I just tire of the critiques of this book that are not based on anything actually in the book. The discussion here has criticisms that would be valid for the movie, which was directed by a Caucasian male, so make of that you will.Rebochan 16:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, if the evidence is not in the book, then it is not the work of Tan. Another person's interpretation is just that. You can not use a movie director's opinion of the book and say that this was what Tan believed in. Yialanliu (talk) 17:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to point something out here. Waverly actually did marry to two men: Marvin and Rich. I have the book in front of me right now, and it says that Marvin's last name was Chen. Chen is a Chinese surname; in fact, it ranks fifth most popular on this list. So Marvin was Chinese. Oddly enough, Tan made him a character that became neglectful and forgetful of Waverly, causing her to break up with him in the end. Even though they had a daughter together. Lady Galaxy 21:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe but the screenplay was co-writed by Amy Tan herself, so you can't just put all the blame on a "Caucasian male" director looking down on asian culture.Mitch1981 (talk) 16:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's this talk about a "Caucasian male" director? Wasn't Wayne Wang, a Chinese American, the director? --Mulder8281 (talk) 13:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The whole book and the reason for its incredible popularity can be essentially summed up as an Appeal to Pathos. Virtually every statement I've heard over the years about this book's supposed importance has been reasoned on the fallacious insistances of literary elitists and social divas who are mostly interested in looking as "unbaised" as they can in order to save face amongst their own. Seriously, if Amy Tan were white, nobody would care enough to turn the pages because even nowadays, everyone is still so sick and tired of this melodramatic crap after spending most of the 19th Century reading from that genre. So what if a few brave individuals take note of its racist and sexist premises, afterall, nobody listens to them. If you want a better story that's far less fantastically imagined, try Pavillion of Women, or Balzac et la Petite Tailleuse Chinoise, or maybe even Big Trouble in Little China. I Declare This Debate Concluded. And now, go ask some Chinese people what they think of the book. Sweetfreek (talk) 08:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed sentence[edit]

I removed the following two sentences because they contradict information in the Amy Tan article. thx1138 08:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Amy Tan immigrated from China after graduating from high school. This novel is focused on her mother and her own personal events while they were in China and in San Francisco.

Ying ying[edit]

Ying Ying had an abortion in the book. She does not divorce or kill her son in the novel, just the movie. Please stop changing it. ★Dasani★ 23:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Meals[edit]

I think this article would much benefit from a section concerning the symbolism of meals in the novel.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 18:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: Place each Daughter under her Mother[edit]

Rearranging the order would seem to improve readability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.62.137.114 (talk) 06:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't whether or not this is fiction encyclopedic?[edit]

The article does not specify whether or not the work is fiction. TI really hope that Wikipedia isn't in the habit of excluding that information. Whether or not it is fiction, should be in the infobox. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 20:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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