Talk:Gardiners Island

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Copy of original article[edit]

"Since 1639, Gardiner's Island has been known by the name of the family that acquired it. Lion Gardiner purchased it from native Indians, his title being confirmed by James Farret, who three years earlier had been employed by William, Earl of Sterling, `Secretary of the Kingdom of Scotland,' to sell lands for him on the whole of Long Island, although at the time the Dutch were in possession there." p. 337, in "Historic Homes of Eastern America," Elise Lathrop. Tudor Publications, N.Y., 1927. c) Robert M. McBride & Co. Found at the Huntington Free Library, Westchester Square, Bronx, NY, which also until recently contained the written ethnology holdings of the Heye Foundation, that catalog now with the National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, D.C.

As a member of the Suffolk County Archaeological Association and graduate Anthropology student I had the opportunity to hear Robert Gardiner speak on a couple of occasions about Gardiners Island, (he also once owned the Gardiner Manor Mall in Babylon, NY. His book-keeper there at the Mall, Mrs. Washington, now an employee of the Peconic Trust, a land buying preservation society, and I worked in an archaeology company, Greenhouse Consultants, Inc.) One must remember that U.S. Senator Gardiner was killed when a cannon, the NYC's Haddersley Forge contributed "Peacemaker," aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, exploded while being fired in salute to Mount Vernon on the Potomac River. His daughter, below decks with President Tyler, later became the Mrs. Tyler and First Lady, after the first public funeral (Senator Gardiner of New York and two Cabinet members, and there were other victims) held in the Capitol Building.

I asked Mr. Gardiner why the treasure of Captain Kidd was dug up in the late 19th century by the British. He said that the USA did not exist then and all properties of convicted felons became property of the Crown. There was a map to it in his vest pocket when he was hung, for what some historians have claimed an accident under mutinous conditions, perhaps he one of the most maligned characters in western history, as his backers in the privateer venture in London never came forward. He was a well to do resident of New York City. A marker is on the island where the treasure, part of an India Princess' dowry (taken in the Indian Ocean), was dug up. It was recently broadcast on PBS that the wealth from it was used in part for a seamen's retirement facility and hospital.

Mr. Robert Gardiner also served in WWII aboard the modern U.S. Princeton in Naval Intelligence. Later, on his recounting the story of the former First Lady Julia Tyler's legacy with President Tyler (six children from his former wife four from her) actor Gloria Swanson remarked she would have to be played by someone like Vivian Leigh. Mr. Gardiner attended law school, where he had to hide the precedent setting "contested will" case with his family name ascribed, resulting after the "cease fire" arranged between the North and South in Richmond, VA, where and when the Former President Tyler died and she requested to return through the battlefield to New York City, later bedside by a wealthy Manhattanite. The case was popularized by the press.

Robert Gardiner was also instrumental in getting the widespread use of DDT controlled, bringing public attention to it when he noticed that the ospreys, "sea eagle" raptors of the waters that nest on eastern Long Island, Gardiners Island, and elsewhere, were dying out. They migrate to and from northern Brazil every year. They were disappearing, as the DDT weakened their eggshells, causing them to break before hatching. Recent stands there and elsewhere on Long Island have encouraged their comeback from near extinction, perhaps.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.231.227.98 (talk • contribs) 10:55, 2005 January 9 (UTC)

Captain Kidd Treasure Reference[edit]

The Pirate Hunter

The Pirate Hunter

Hampton Star --MichaelGray 13:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, see WP:CITE if you need to know how to cite it in the article itself. If not I'll check out the references and add the citation myself eventually. --W.marsh 13:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gardiners_Island Gardiners_Bay Gardner_Island Nikumaroro[edit]

Gardiners_Island Gardiners_Bay Gardner_Island Nikumaroro

Hopiakuta 00:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC) Gardner_Pinnacles[reply]

Hopiakuta 01:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Controversy[edit]

I had thought to make a contribution to this page (based upon personal expreiences, several conversations with the late subject himself, visits to the island, second-hand information from a trusted friend of his, and other sources). However, when I examined the page, and saw so many misleading and falsified statements touted as "fact", I realized that this is yet another Wikipedia page that has been taken over by people who have an axe to grind and the time to stifle dissent.

Nevertheless, I would be happy to correct the erroneous account, based on verifiable facts and honest recollections, and I'd be happy to submit my proposed replacement for review (if I knew how to do that), but I won't waste my time removing blatantly false assertions and inserting corrections, only to have my mods may be deemed as vandalism" by those who lurk far more frequently on these pages.

(That has happened to me once or twice before. My faith has been badly shaken re the objectivity of Wikipedia, which unfortunately seems to succumb to majoritarianism and prone to the tyranny of the "squeaky wheel".

Below is the truth, if anyone is interested. (Feel free to contact me at "bam@tripodics.com" for further details.)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Tripodics (talk • contribs) Revision as of 05:09, 2007 January 15 (UTC)

Bob Gardiner Congress Run[edit]

Bob Gardiner ran for Congress in 1976. His primary motive for doing so was his genuine outrage at the bill introduced by Otis Pike [1st CD NY] seeking to condemn the island and make it into a "National Monument".

Three decades later, I can still vividly recall him excalaiming to a group of supporters (mostly party leaders from the Republican, Conservative, Libertarian Party), as we rode on a truck across his island, "Here is where Otis Pike wants to install two dozen toilets on my island!" There is no way that Bob's pain and anguish was faked. He was passionate about preserving his "manor" for posterity, and resisting the trampling and trashing of the island by the Feds and the mobs that would flock to that tiny, pristine preserve.

To say that he "refused to pay half" is completely inaccurate, but perhaps forgiveable. (Some agreement had been reached to involve younger relatives in the planning for the island (over which he had had sole control), and to split the annual costs. (Yes, his investments were imperiled, relatives were ripping him off, and some of the yound buzzards were circling for the kill.)

However, for Wikipedia to state that Bob Gardiner was "hoping that the government would acquire the land and make it a historic site." is utter bullshit. [I'm very sorry for introducing profanity into this discussion, but a lesser word would be insuffient. There is no other way to characterize "hoping that the government would acquire the land". It is just blantantly false. And it is downright libelous!]

When Pike began getting bitten by the hornet's nest he had stirred up, he elaborately repositioned himself, backed down on the condemnation proposal, and won re-election. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tripodics (talk • contribs) Revision as of 05:09, 2007 January 15 (UTC)

Additional Comments[edit]

The above is NOT text submitted for the article. I'd be glad to write some (and to keep it objective), but I'm afraid it would be a waste of time, and that my corrections would be trashed by those who seem to have taken over Wikipedia (and who have the time to lurk constantly and censor legitimate additions).

bam

EXISTING (INCORRECT) TEXT[edit]

The island was the subject of a family dispute regarding the ownership and inheritance of the land when Robert David Lion Gardiner quarreled with his sister and her daughter, Alexandra Gardiner Goelet, believing they secretly wanted to sell the island for development after his death. After Goelet and her husband began paying the large upkeep and tax costs of the island (estimated at $2 million per year), Mr. Gardiner refused to pay half, hoping that the government would acquire the land and make it a historic site. His relatives took him to court, in 1980 he was barred from visiting the island. On appeal, this was reversed in 1992, and Mr. Gardiner regularly visited the island, though he did not speak to the Goelets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tripodics (talk • contribs) Revision as of 05:09, 2007 January 15 (UTC)

Above was unsigned by User:Tripodics on January 15, 2007. I made corrections to the headings since they messed up the flow of the page. I did not edit the user's comments. Americasroof 15:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Eh, as far as I know I'm the only established editor watching this article, I won't revert your changes if they're accurate, and better yet sourced to something published (see WP:CN). But just making wild accusations right off the bat is not a good way to introduce yourself, if you're that confrontational of course you're going to rub some people the wrong way around here. Anyway, make the changes you want to the article. Trust me, I'm a "mod" here and if you make good changes I'll make sure they stick. --W.marsh 15:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anyway, the sentence was mildly incorrect apparently (though I do recall reading it somewhere) I've changed it to be in line with the source cited directly after the sentence. I don't know the Gardiners, I've never been to Gardiners Island... anything I've added has been either from a source or an innocent mistake in research on my part. --W.marsh 15:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "Ruins"[edit]

Could someone please add a bit about the history of "The Ruins", the old fort that used to be on the north tip, eventually used as target practice in wwii, and then dredged / separated from the rest of the island? Thanks - G. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.193.9.66 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 2007 January 22 (UTC)

The above comment was posted annonymously by User talk:12.193.9.66 on January 23, 2007. It was incorrectly placed under another discussion so I am moving it down here and giving a head. I made no other changes. This requested article/information should probably be included an article on Gardiners Point which would refer to the federally owned lighthouse and Fort Taylor. Americasroof 13:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hmmm[edit]

Niihau is 69.5 sq mi, according to Wikipedia. So probably "The island is the largest privately owned island in the United States," is not true?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 05:21, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the New York Times (in an article written while this one was still a stub) that claim is widely made but indeed inaccurate. I have updated to hopefully fix this. --W.marsh 05:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English Crown Grant[edit]

The article states: "It has been owned by the Gardiner family for nearly 400 years, and it is the only American real estate still intact as part of an original royal grant from the English Crown.[1]" . Although this is sourced to a history of the isalnd's light-house, it is not entirely correct. The 400-acre Rokeby Estate, in Barrytown, NY, has been passed down in a direct family line (Livingstons, Astors, and Chanlers) since its original Royal Patent was granted by King James II in 1688 (although the main house was not built in 1811) The estate, however, is significantly smaller than the original grant, as portions have been sold off or parcelled off to lateral heirs over the years. So Gardiner's Island may be able to make the claim that it is the only "fully intact" Royal grant in continuous family ownership. My source for Rokeby's history is Lately Thomas' Pride of Lions Washington Park Press (November 1999) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.32.13.13 (talk) 03:18, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gardiner's Island land grant was awarded in 1639. That is before your 1688 claim for the land grant in Barrytown. Furthermore, the island has never been divided or subdivided. So, the claim that Gardiner's Island is the oldest and only intact land grant from the British crown is true. The categorization of this bestowment has nothing to do with buildings whatsoever.
2602:306:CE98:1510:6949:5464:FEB:59FC (talk) 14:54, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Lion Gardiner son[edit]

I believe the last Gardiner had a son out of wedlock by a servant in Polynesia during the 1940s.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.171.75 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 2011 March 19 (UTC)

  • If it is not documented in RS it is irrelevant... Geo Swan (talk) 23:35, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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