Talk:Godwin, Earl of Wessex

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Godwin, Earl of Wessex was a good article, but it was removed from the list as it no longer met the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.
Review: August 9, 2006.

Untitled[edit]

Some how it should be worked in that HRH Prince Edward was created the Earl of Wessex upon his marriage in 1999, ressurecting this long dormant title.

reference: http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page473.asp

Earls of Wessex[edit]

Earl of Wessex needs to know when this title was first created, presumably it ended with the death of Harold II of England at the Battle of Hastings in 1066, but who was the first. And for that matter, who was Godwin's father? Dunc_Harris|☺ 15:14, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wulfnoth Cild, Thegn of Sussex as already stated in the article. User: Dimadick

During 1051 Edward had suppressed Godwin by recruiting armies from the northern earls leofric and siward but then... During 1052 Godwin more than just reappaeared and reclaimed his lands in englnd he pretty much undermined the entire monarchy by making edward a puppet while the Godwin Family ruled over england from the background after leofric and siward would not support Edward upon Godwin's return.

Can anyone provide me with more information on this and how that affected the positions of key leaders in England upto Edward's death?

I don't know... what i do know is that this guy is my direct forefather... i want my land back... :(

"Godwin Sands"[edit]

The Godwin Sands are connected to/named after lands granted to Godwin - can someone put in a line or two about them? (Location etc)

Jackiespeel 16:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean the Goodwin Sands ? Do you have a source that says the name is derived from Earl Godwin ? RGCorris (talk) 17:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've dealt with this in the Legacy section now. In a word, it's just a story. --Antiquary (talk) 11:52, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delisted GA[edit]

This article did not go through the current GA nomination process. Looking at the article as is, it fails on criteria 2b of the GA quality standards. Although references are provided, the citation of sources is essential for verifiability. Most Good Articles use inline citations. I would recommend that this be fixed, to reexamine the article against the GA quality standards, and to submit the article through the nomination process. --RelHistBuff 13:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(1).Due to the workings of genealogy everyone who lived at this age is probably the ancestor of every English person now except for those who are the ancestors of nobody. (2).Edward the Confessor owed his position as king to Godwin who offered it to him on Hardicnut's death. Edward did most of the undermining himself. (3).The title Earl replaced that of Ealdorman under Cnut and Godwin was the first creation. Godwin was to my mind, the first Emglish modern politician. He attained power through proving himself as a military commander under Cnut, but he maintained that power by his manipulation of the Witenagemot and by appeals to popular support, especially as the supposed champion of English interests over Edward's Norman favourites-supposed in asmuch as whilst he supported English people such as the citizens of Dover and the "butsecarls"(boatmen)of Kent, his wife Gytha was selling them (especially good looking women) into slavery.Like I said- a politician.Streona 18:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

As much as I love the photo taken of the seal-die belonging to Godwin the thegn, I haven't come across any secondary source which identifies him with our man (or the nun, monacha, Godgytha with Gytha), so I've found a new home for it at "thegn". I'll see if I can come up with some alternatives. There's a 14th-century manuscript drawing of him choking to death at table (admittedly, not very flattering) in Cambridge, Trinity College, MS B.10.2, f. 41r, and better still, there's an illustrated version of Edward's Anglo-Norman Life (available online here, [1]). Not the faintest idea how to get hold of a copyright-free image though. In haste, Cavila (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can trust the judgement of the British Museum, unless you believe the uploader misread the caption. Zacwill (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The thing is that the uploader wrote the caption, not the museum. Its not uncommon for uploaders to misidentify or mislabel the images they upload to Wikipedia (here's one example I can remember of a featured article that had such an image). So, just like text, images should be verified. That makes it less likely that incorrect information is introduced into articles.

As for this seal, it's appears in plate 17 of:

Heslop, TA (2014) [1999]. "Seals". In Lapidge, M; Blair, J; Keynes, S; Scragg, D (eds.). The Wiley Blackwell Encyclopedia of Anglo-Saxon England (2nd ed.). John Wiley & Sons. pp. 426–427. ISBN 978-0-470-65632-7.

Heslop states that this ivory seal dates to the reign of Harthacnut, and that it belonged to an otherwise unknown thegn called Godwine whose seal matrix was used by a nun named Godgyth.

Actually, the seal also appears on the museum website which states that the identities of Godwin and Godgyth are uncertain [2].--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 23:05, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Eldest Son[edit]

If Sweyn was the eldest son, why does it say he was born in 1023 and Harold in 1022? -Anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.77.132.123 (talk) 03:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources I am aware of state that Sweyn was older than Harold, as does Sweyn's own article, so why does this article have him as the second son ? RGCorris (talk) 17:38, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Recent revert[edit]

(Copied from User talk:Dudley Miles)

Please take a second look at this revert and your edit summary? I take it you meant to revert something in a different browser tab you had open? Blue Danube (talk) 17:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable secondary sources are preferred for reference. Primary sources are better assessed by historians, not Wikipedia editors. In addition, referring to the 'the ancient Abingdon manuscript' is vague and unencyclopedic and the reference is incorrectly shown with the title 'Archived copy'. Dudley Miles (talk) 22:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorting through the objections as follows:

"original research" - a primary source is not original research. I'm still unclear what this was intended to mean, in the original revert edit summary.
"Primary sources are better assessed by historians" - I agree... which is why I did not assess it. I simply included a quotation for situational context. The source is a contemporary record. Does your objection mean you are erasing all contemporary record-sourced quotations you find on all Wikipedia articles? I feel like I might be missing something here. Can you specify what part of WP:NOR I got wrong? Blue Danube (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"'the ancient Abingdon manuscript' is vague and unencyclopedic" - A minor issue. I'll fix it since I'm not a fan of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
"the reference is incorrectly shown with the title 'Archived copy'" - Another minor issue. I'll fix it since I'm not a fan of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I believe we're in good shape now. Blue Danube (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]