Talk:Siamese fighting fish

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

RM, Siamese fighting fish → Betta splendens, Not moved, 8 September 2008, Special:Permalink/239340260#Requested move
RM, Siamese fighting fish → Betta splendens, Not moved, 26 March 2021, Special:Permalink/1015002313#Requested move 26 March 2021
RM, Siamese fighting fish → Betta fish, Not moved, 8 July 2022, Special:Permalink/1099830627#Requested move 8 July 2022

"Combattant" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Combattant and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 7#Combattant until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TraderCharlotte (talk) 20:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Siamese -Betta- fighter fish" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Siamese -Betta- fighter fish and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 7#Siamese -Betta- fighter fish until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TraderCharlotte (talk) 20:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Chinese fighting fish" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Chinese fighting fish and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 7#Chinese fighting fish until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TraderCharlotte (talk) 20:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Japanese fighting fish" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Japanese fighting fish and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 7#Japanese fighting fish until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TraderCharlotte (talk) 20:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 July 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus not to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 20:21, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Siamese fighting fish → Betta fish – This appears to be the more WP:COMMONNAME since approximately the year 2000, according to Google nGrams. Anecdotally, my personal experience matches this.

In the previous move request debate, someone commented that "betta fish" was strictly American English. If I refine the Google nGram to British English only, "siamese fighting fish" isn't even a result. It gets ZERO hits. This suggests that "siamese fighting fish" is actually the term that was exclusive to American English, and "betta fish" is the more general English term.

Currently, "Betta fish" is a redirect for "Betta", the entire genus, but it appears to me that the specific term of "Betta fish" is not talking about the genus as a whole, but specifically betta splendens, this page. I could accept an argument that searching "betta fish" in nGrams might be referring to the genus, except for the fact that "siamese fighting fish" isn't found in the British corpus at all. Fieari (talk) 00:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:44, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I just wanted to say that I live in Canada and anecdotally, I've never heard anyone say anything other than betta fish. I've also followed a few fish fanatic groups online because I find them interesting and everyone there always calls them betta fish (and talks about the often cruely inadequate tank size people give them to live in and so on). So it's not just an American English thing, as the nomination has stated. It also seems like a good idea to avoid terms like "Siamese fighting fish", kind of like how the article about conjoined twins isn't under the title "Siamese twins" even if that had historical use. Also, this really does seem to be the common name so that's what the article title should be. Clovermoss (talk) 11:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Google ngrsms is case sensitive, and "Siamese" is a proper noun. See this graph. William Avery (talk) 13:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's also a button there for a case-insensitive search. Here is a link. There is also a way to select the corpus for the search. Regardless of whether that is set to British English or all English, it shows "Siamese fighting fish" as more popular than "Betta fish", but the former has been declining and the latter has been rising. I suspect, though, that these fish are often just called "Bettas" rather than "Betta fish", and the Ngram can't detect that. The alternative spelling "Beta fish" / "Beta" also occurs. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This suggests that "siamese fighting fish" is actually the term that was exclusive to American English, and "betta fish" is the more general English term. This is, frankly, rubbish. I'm British and I've never heard the term "betta fish", but frequently heard "siamese fighting fish". I see no good reason to move away from the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:38, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose betta, or betta fish, is an American term for the fish. Elsewhere, the fish in English-speaking countries are known as Siamese fighting fish or sometimes by the full scientific name Betta splendens. This is not the American Wikipedia. - Nick Thorne ^talk 01:51, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've heard this claim before, but I'm skeptical... not calling you a liar, but I would like to be sure. Can you back it up with citations or sources? Fieari (talk) 04:52, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not the one proposing a change. The burden of proof lies with the person wanting change. - Nick Thorne ^talk 10:00, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose – the n-gram evidence presented is totally false and incompetently done, since it is based on lowercase "siamese". Here you can see how much more rare betta fish is, in all capitalizations. Dicklyon (talk) 15:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

varieties bred[edit]

Caption under first photo reads in part "varieties bred" which I believe should read "variety breed" but I'm not sure.

Wiki Education assignment: Computer Science Principles[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 September 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vulcanalto (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Vulcanalto (talk) 14:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]