Talk:Vaslav Nijinsky

discussion of the article

Nijinsky was forced to be gay with Diaghlev or else he would have ended Nijinsky's career, i hope someone verifies that and make changes soon

As i am currently studying dance at Burton colluge i have been asked to write an essay about a male dancer, as part of an assignment. Therfore i choose Vaslav Nijinsky. I find him most facinating what he did with his life, and the huge effect he has on dancing nowadays. AS i am researching more into hoim i find him more interestiing every minute.

Nijinsky was NOT forced to be gay.....I dont know who put that statement up there but it is so far gone with ignorance its sick. Its almost funny. Accept it, the man WAS GAY! Mrlopez2681 05:34, 14 May 2006

Nijinsky, and other young male Russian dancers of that era, were coerced into relationships with rich and aristocratic homosexuals whether they themselves were gay or not. It was considered a wise career choice, because their placement and scheduling in ballet companies often depended on the favor of the powerful. Richard Buckle has discussed this in detail in his biography of Nijinsky. Buckle believed Nijinsky's life and writings made it clear he was a bisexual who preferred women. Younggoldchip (talk) 15:09, 2 January 2022 (UTC) (UTC)

The claim that he was forced to be Diaghilev's lover is made in the memoirs of Nijinsky's wife Romola. Whether she was correct (or should be trusted) is another matter, but the statement is not "so far gone with ignorance it's sick." In his diaries Nijinsky describes many encounters with female prostitutes in detail, but does not explicitly discuss male lovers. David Sneek 17:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

In Nijinsky's diaries he does explicitly discuss the physical repulsion he felt toward Diaghilev and his resentment at their affair. He believed he was forced into it for career reasons. Since these writings were private, they are probably what he felt. As for Romola's editing of his diaries, she was honest enough to include passages that must have caused her pain. An example would be Nijinsky's bleak reference to her as the "unshining star." Younggoldchip (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

This article seems extremely biased in its tone and lacks any reference to substantiate its statements. A good thorough rewrite is called for here, one with greater objectivity. Markhh (talk) 05:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The article reveals a peculiar bias against Romola Nijinsky, dismissing her as a shallow, lovesick hanger-on. Actually, as Richard Buckle's biography of Nijinsky amply shows, Romola was a strong, intelligent, resourceful and devoted mate. She stayed with Nijinsky through an incredible series of misfortunes and hardships which would have defeated a lesser woman. During World War II, when they were trapped in Nazi-occupied Europe, she nurtured her husband and protected him against a regime which exterminated the mentally disabled. Inspite of every difficulty,she never deserted him and never lost the conviction that she was married to an admirable and remarkable man, a rare soul. In the end, she and Nijinsky did find safe harbor in England and they enjoyed a few happy years before his death. Younggoldchip (talk) 18:58, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

==Romola Nijinskaya== submitted letters and documents and vaclav's diary to publishers. these were edited by her. what we know today about him is information that she thought prudent to print. raina_noor (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)raina_noorraina_noor (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I place a lot of trust in Richard Buckle's biography of Nijinsky, and account of his marriage. Buckle personally knew and interviewed many of the people this couple came in contact with. Romola was not his only source of information. Buckle admired Romola for her steadfastness and enterprise through hair-raising difficulties, mentioning for example the fact that she literally sold copies of her memoir door to door when she and Nijinsky had no money. At any time, during all the years of their poverty and his madness, she could have returned to the relative security of her mother's home. (Her mother was the most famous and beloved Hungarian actress of her era.)Romola preferred to stay with her penniless, insane spouse. The article which sneers at her "pragmatic and plebeian qualities" has missed the point that it was these very qualities which allowed the Nijinskys to stay afloat. In particular, the fact that Nijinsky survived the war is a sort of miracle.

Raina noor's point that Romola edited Nijinsky's diaries is, if anything, fresh evidence of her respect for her spouse's works. She was not interested in self-protection. The diaries are, at times, far from kind about Romola (the "untwinkling star")but these painful references stayed in. Younggoldchip (talk) 20:42, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Well go ahead and fix the article, Younggoldchip. Eliminate any bias and cite your sources. Good luck! Markhh (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm peculiar for a Wikipedia user, Markh: I don't believe in mangling about somebody else's article. I say let it stand as he wrote it, for better or worse, even if it puts horse dung all over his face. But I also believe in loud and passionate corrections on the Discussion page. Also, every time I read the Harry Harlowe article I feel myself moving closer to editing that wanking apologia for the monkey-murderer... Younggoldchip (talk) 21:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Um... Nijinsky was essentially forced to be gay with Diaghlev. If anyone here bothered to read his diary or notebook, you should know that. If you commentators bothered to study Diaghilev (Haskell, Buckle, Garafola, Karlinsky, Zlobin, etc), you would know more details about their sex lives. Krasovska and Ostwald biographies are good, I suggest you at least read them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.231.243 (talk) 06:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

The first edition of the 'diary' was hacked to pieces and rearranged by his wife, as evidence by the publishing more recently of an 'unexpurgated' version. So in discussing this, please consider which version we are talking about. Whatever reliance may be placed on notes made by someone in the process of being committed for insanity, over a six week period, is uncertain, but we can be clear Romola was not an impartial witness in what she wrote. Appart from her own feelings, apparently she was strapped for cash and needed a saleable story. In the diary Nijinsky says separately that he loves both his wife and Diaghilev. It also appears to detail feelings of betrayal by both, which could be indications of insanity but then again has some justification. I read some of the diary, and my conclusions were, firstly he was pretty mad when he wrote it, second, he certainly wasnt unwilling in his relationships. From what I have read thus far, it sounds to me as if he married Romola because he already believed Diaghilev was in the process of ditching him. Both were forceful characters capable of running his life for him, and I think this is exactly what he wanted. I dont know if he was right to run for cover with Romola and that Diaghilev really had abandoned him, but it sounds like the conflict in his feelings for Diaghilev after leaving him significantly contributed to his insanity. It seems possible far from being a tyrant, Diaghliev may have kept him sane while their relationship lasted. Sandpiper (talk) 07:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Sandpiper, you mention that you read some of the diary. I read all of it. You seem to give credence as "true" those bits you want to be true, and to ascribe other sections which are damning of Diaghilev as examples of Nijinsky's insanity. You can't have it both ways.

Nijinsky was an aesthete who intensely loved beauty. His description of Diaghilev as physically repulsive, and sex between them as disgusting, tells us something that is true to what we know of his character. He also said (and wrote) that he feared Diaghilev would break with him professionally, and do his best to ruin his career, if he rejected him sexually. Since this is exactly what happened, after Nijinsky married Romola, you can hardly claim his fears were unfounded. As for your extraordinary comment that "Diaghilev may have kept him sane while their relationship lasted..." , it was Nijinsky's work which kept him sane. After Diaghilev robbed him of this work--and the frame in which he could express it--Nijinsky could no longer fight off insanity. A few years later, when Nijinsky visited a theater in which Diaghilev's dancers were performing, Diaghilev wept to see his pitiful state. He blamed himself for Nijinsky's condition. He bitterly regretted his own vengeful actions. And he was right. Younggoldchip (talk) 16:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Strange and Unsubstantiated Claim

his major failing was that, being himself unable to form a satisfactory partnership with a woman, he was unsuccessful where such a relationship was important on-stage (in, say, Giselle).

This connection between Nijinsky's art and personality is so strange that it should have a citation. It is also less than superficially homophobic. Janko

Nijinsky was probably not gay--or, to be completely accurate, he was a bisexual who preferred women. His biographer Richard Buckle (who WAS gay) describes a cultural system in the early 19th century whereby homosexual Russian aristocrats felt entitled to help themselves to young male dancers. Of course, all the power was on the side of the aristocrats. Buckle describes what happened to the idealistic young Nijinsky by saying he was "passed around." As for Nijinsky's true feelings, his sister Bronislava Nijinsky has described in her memoir how as a youth he fell passionately in love with girls. He visited female prostitutes. He appears to have freely and deliberately chosen his wife Romola, taking advantage of an ocean voyage during which he was out from under Diaghilev's thumb. They had a full and complete sexual life--Romola even recollecting later that she "felt she was with a god."

It would not be accurate to say he and Diaghilev were "lovers." They had a homosexual affair, which Nijinsky felt he had been pressured into. His diaries reveal that he regarded Diaghilev as physically repulsive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Younggoldchip (talk • contribs) 21:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not exactly an unusual claim to say that Nijinsky was gay/bisexual - his sexuality/sensuality was and is a key part of his fame. So much so, that it is bizarre that the article makes absolutely no mention of this. Udibi (talk) 07:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

The descriptions of Diaghliev sniping at his distasteful habits sounds a lot to me like someone in love who has been dumped getting back at his ex. Or, the degeneration which goes on as a relationship breaks down and lovers start to snap at each other. It does not sound to me as impartial, so certainly he feels a lot about Diaghliev. Sandpiper (talk) 08:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

he said he, 'loved the prince'. he said he had to change, 'jeux', to have two females because, 'love between three men', could not be depicted on stage. it is said that upon arriving in america after having been kept from dancing due to ww1 he kissed serge and thrust his little daughter into his arms upon greeting.

he was bi. it is very obvious. romola did not want to accept this, so she edited his diary to try to make him look like a victim of serge, not his lover.

people need to get over this concept that serge was a monster. kyra married serge's last lover. waclaw was an artist, a dancer, and a lover of many. deal with it, please. he was beautiful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.52.121 (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

But the facts show that Diaghilev WAS a monster. He was furiously vengeful toward Nijinsky for marrying. He deliberately, intentionally deprived him of the opportunity to dance, the most cruel punishment he could devise. Nijinsky's work is what had kept him sane. Without it, his mental stability was shattered forever. Richard Buckle's biography discusses this in detail. Later, Diaghilev bitterly blamed himself for Nijinsky's breakdown. Younggoldchip (talk) 18:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Birth date and place

Hi all,

I've seen Nijinsky's tombstone in the cemetery in Paris and on it, it says that he was born in Kiev on December 28, 1889 (although this could be old style) and died on April 8, 1950 in London. The photo of the tombstone can be found here:

http://photos10.flickr.com/13625804_7000399d07_b.jpg

Max

Interesting. It certainly isn't an old style/new style problem, since the old style equivalent of 12 March 1890 is 28 February 1890. And the new style equivalent of 28 December 1889 is 9 January 1890. It just seems to be a mistake (although it's possible that 28 December 1889 is both the wrong date and in the old style). I must do some research on this. Of course, this isn't the only case where a tombstone lists the wrong date/s for the person inside. Karol Szymanowski's sarcophagus shows the wrong death date (out by one day). JackofOz 01:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[1] says that Nijinsky was born on the night of 27-28 February 1889 (= 12 March new style). Fifteen months later his mother became pregnant again, and his sister Bronislava was born 27 December 1890 (= 8 January 1891 new style). Even if the fifteen months is not accurate, it would be highly unlikely (although possible) for a mother to give birth to one child in March and another in the following January. The footnote on the page says:

• The birthdates of the Nijinsky children have been a subject of confusion in most biographies. The earliest, by Romola Nijinsky, has Vaslav born in 1890 while Richard Buckle’s Nijinsky erroneously gives Vaslav’s year of birth as 1888 in an attempt to correct previous inaccuracies. However, Vera Krassovskaya, the Soviet ballet historian, has the dates correct in her recent Nijinsky (1979).

On the basis of this document, it would seem to me more than likely that:

• Nijinsky was born on 12 March, but in 1889, not 1890, and
• the date 28 December on his tombstone is a confusion about his sister Bronislava's (old style) birth date of 27 December. JackofOz 02:08, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for following up on this. I am not too surprised with these issues, as dates can be hard to track down, especially across such frontiers and time frames. And it further depends on who placed the tombstone. mno 16:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, Nijinsky's parents were probably on tour in Kiev when he was born. Documents on file in Warsaw record Nijinsky's date of birth as 17 December 1889, but all of his psychiatric records as well as most of his travel documents and identity cards say it was 28 February 1889. In the new Russian calendar, that would be 12 March 1889. His sister and Krasovskaya (a biographer) and others from the NYPL also give that date of birth. On the other hand, researchers like Richard Buckle and Lincoln Kirstein put the year back to 1988. nijinsky himself used the year 1890. His wife gave the DoB as 28 February 1900 in her first book and 28 December 1890 second. The most research was probably done by Ian Ferguson and thinks that Nijinsky was born on 12 March 1890. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.231.243 (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Ballets Russes categories vs. non-existent Ballets Polish categories

The Ballets Russes was a ballet company based in Paris (later Monte Carlo) of which Nijinsky was a member; please do not change this to "Ballets Polish"! Robert Greer (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Did his brother suffer from a mental illness?

Judging by a quote (in Wikiquotes), his brother was mentally ill when Vaslav was just 18. Would be interesting to add more about this to the article. --CopperKettle (talk) 01:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The exact mental ailment from which Stanislas Nijinsky suffered may never be known. He suffered a severe fall, with a head injury, in childhood. Later, according to his sister Bronislava Nijinsky, he was placed for months with caregivers whom his mother thought were conscientious, but it turned out they were neglecting and abusing him. According to biographer Richard Buckle, Stanislas's mother also wondered if he had been affected in utero by a tragic incident that happened when she was pregnant with him: she and her husband were traveling in a remote section of Russia when their hotel was attacked by bandits. There was some violent incident which deeply shocked and traumatized the pregnant woman. She wondered if Stanislas's mental disabilities somehow arose from that. Younggoldchip (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Was Vaslav Nijinsky Accurately Diagnosed As A Schizophrenic?

It would be interesting for someone with broad medical knowledge of schizophrenia to discuss this question. The reason I raise the matter is because, as I understand it, schizophrenics usually begin to manifest symptoms when they're nineteen or twenty. All through his twenties Nijinsky was a highly functional and creative dancer, husband, father, and friend. He was thirty before he had a massive breakdown.Also, this happened after years of great frustration when he was essentially separated from the broader dance world by his dispute with Diaghilev. I have wondered if his breakdown was in part situational, and not because he was inherently unbalanced. Younggoldchip (talk) 21:07, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

According to Judith Mackrell's The Bloomsbury Ballerina published in 2008, Nijinsky was already experiencing periods of seclusion and mental distress by the time of the 1913 South American tour, when he was in his early twenties. Perhaps I should add this into the body of the article? (LaurenA1 (talk) 12:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC))

Although 20-28 is the most common age range for diagnosis in males, diagnosis at later ages is still possible. The famous mathematician John Nash said his confused thoughts started when he was 31. I'm not saying this proves Nijinsky's diagnosis was correct, but it doesn't rule it out either. Schizophrenia can also relent in later years and this seems to have been the case somewhat with Nijinsky also. Markhh (talk) 21:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Although I am not a medical professional, I have some experience in this field. The problem may be that he was diagnosed as a schizophrenic. Maybe his symptoms were consistent with schizophrenia. But it is a well known fact that once a reputable doctor has diagnosed a patient, no other doctor is going to review that decision, unless they are absolutely sure that the diagnosis is wrong. By that time the patient will probably be medicated. But there are some things that have made me wonder. His brother suffered severe head trauma, as Nijinski did himself. I have heard him described as an idiot savant (which is a rare condition). The symptoms that are described are also consistent with severe depression. Maybe he just became depressed as he beacame older, fearing that the time had come when his body would no longer allow him to be the dancer he was. It is not uncommon that this is accompanied by severe paranoia (which in his case could probably be justified). It must also be noted that this all happened in a time when mental illness was not very well understood. I would agree with the original question, I think Nijinski suffered because of what happened to him (keeping in mind that he was probably a very complicated person) and not because he was inherently unbalanced. But in my mind he was very special (even if there was something wrong with him) and he should be remebered for that, not all the other BS. JHvW 22:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Last 30 years

The traditional, Romantic shorthand has always been "Nijinsky went mad and spent the next 3 decades in asylums". But I was told many years ago by elderly ballet people that in fact he spent most of that time cared for at home in Surrey. Any sources on this either way? Also, is there a post-1920 photo anywhere? 72.209.63.226 (talk) 16:24, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

dismissed

In the biography of his wife it appears clearly how after the bad understanding when important people of theatre know about the success nijinsky was offered a salary highest than other salary in history of the company of dancers equivalent to the highest opera singer, but Wazlav prefered the offer of Diaguiliev. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.6.35.69 (talk) 17:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The paragraph about his choreography with Ballets Russes

Disclaimer: I know very little about ballet, but come to this from the musical side of things. However, this paragraph (unsourced) seems to be very pro-Nijinsky in comparison with the account in Stravinsky's memoirs. I realise that Stravinsky tended to be self-serving in his recollections, but this section probably still needs to be more nuanced.

Specifically:

- the paragraph starts by saying that Nijinsky took the creative reins; Stravinsky says essentially that it was it was Diaghilev who was determined to have Nijinsky become a choreographer, and portrays Nijinsky as rather passive.

- slew boundaries. I can't quite imagine what slaying a boundary would mean; in any event, which boundaries?

- For the first time, his audiences were experiencing the futuristic, new direction of modern dance Really? Stravinsky's line is that Nijinsky went astray in overcomplicating things (I dimly recall reviews of some revivals of Nijinsky's choreography saying the same thing). Did Nijinsky's choreography represent "the new direction of modern dance"?

- The radically angular movements expressed the heart of Stravinsky's radically modern score. Stravinsky says more or less the opposite: "What the choreography expressed was a very labored and barren effort rather than a plastic realization flowing simply and naturally from what the music demanded... Nijinsky was incapable of giving intelligible form to [the dance's] essence".

Thoughts? Henry^Flower 07:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually Stravinsky wrote later that he had been unfair to Nijinsky and that Nijinsky's choreography for Sacre was absolutely the best one. Stravinsky had seen the later choreographies for the music then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.213.200 (talk) 00:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC) 80.221.213.200 (talk) 08:04, 23 March 2017 (UTC) For Henry Flower and others I recommend warmly the article Fans, Fawns and Fauns: Ballet Stardom, Dancing Genius and Queer Afterlife of Vaslav Nijinsky by Hanna Jarvinen (Järvinen by original spelling) and Vera Krasovskaja's book Nijinsky, for this topic specially the pages 268-273. https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/18673671/fans-fawns-and-fauns-ballet-stardom-dancing-genius-and-iipc is link for Jarvinen's article.

Romanization

So, I can see how it became Ni-j-insky rather than Ni-zh-insky - that's the French influence.

But what about this "Vaslav"? In the Russian, Ukrainian and Polish versions, there's a "ts" sound where "s" is, which seems to have been totally overlooked. Václav (Czech)/Wacław (Polish) is a Slavic name that has no counterpart in French, English, German, Spanish, Italian or any other European languages (the traditional English version is Wenceslas). It's hardly ever even encountered in Russian, except in people of Czech or Polish origin.

When romanizing such names, the usual choice is between (a) absolutely literal transliteration - Vatslav from the Russian or Ukrainian Вацлав; or (b) using the native spelling if it uses the Roman alphabet. The only language that fits that bill in Nijinsky's case would be Polish, i.e. Wacław, which could easily be rendered non-diacritically as Waclaw. But what we actually have is Vaslav, which corresponds to a name in no language known to me, and is not a true representation of how Nijinsky would have pronounced his own name.

Where did it come from and how did it become the standard spelling of his given name? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Diaghilev got his dancers to change their names to something russian sounding but easy for the locals. So even british people ended up with made up russian sounding names. Marketing, thats how. Sandpiper (talk) 23:20, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

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Jeux

According to the Jeux article, Diaghilev intended the music to describe a homosexual encounter between three young men, while according to this article, that was Nijinsky's idea, which was resisted by Diaghilev. Which is correct? Dlabtot (talk) 15:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Initial burial place

He may have died in London but he was not buried in the city. I recall reading a souvenir Daily Express from the week of our present Queen's coronation (1953) that his body was exhumed from his initial grave at Virginia Water in Surrey for burial in Paris. Unfortunately the paper perished a long time ago so could not use the story as a citation reference.Cloptonson (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Pronouns

Fix the pronouns 2A02:908:2054:8320:DCE1:31AF:E3CF:71F6 (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2023 (UTC)