Talk:Jersey Dutch language

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Untitled][edit]

You did well to remove that comment, since Jersey Dutch was NOT modern Dutch and the term Duits was used to describe both Dutch and Germans in it (leg duits = Jersey Dutch, Hoog Duits = German), the word "Hess" (Hessian) also meant German, but in a negative manner (ferdoomde Hess!). So, Neger Duits DID mean "Black" or "Negro Dutch." The article should also mention that Jerseduits was spoken in northern Essex county (north Newark, Belleville, Nutley, Bloomfield at least). 96.231.79.232 (talk) 23:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)Jerseduitser[reply]

I removed the following:

**NOTE: "It was sometimes called Neger Duits - "Negro Dutch" - when spoken by mixed race people."
'Neger Duits' Means Negro German. NOT Negro Dutch. That would be Neger Nederlands/Hollands. Duits is Dutch for German.

Duits means in German in modern Dutch, but as recently as WWII, it was a bit more ambiguous in usage, refering to both at times. This usage is still present in the Dutch national anthem. The reason the Pennsylvania Dutch are called Dutch, even though they have nothing to do with Holland, is because until the 19th century the English word Dutch, the Dutch word Duits, and the German word Deutsch still referred to Germanic peoples from northern contenental Europe without special national reference. There is some reference to this shift in meaning at Dietsch. --Diderot 16:11, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Dutch national anthem actually refers to the Duits/German blood in the sense that Orange-Nassau is originally German. Mallerd 21:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Today, perhaps, but not when it was written. Rp (talk) 15:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is not certain that "Duitse bloed" in the anthem, means German. For in earlier days it was "dietsche bloed,"meaning that Willem van Oranje, was "one of the people." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.196.77.127 (talk) 13:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The German nativity of William of Orange was a special case. He inherited this title from his uncle Rene of Chalon, who belonged to the Dutch Nassaus. Ad43 (talk) 09:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pennsylvania Dutch[edit]

Could someone elaborate the relationship between Jersey Dutch and Pennsylvania Dutch? Did they arise as two different dialects or were they one language divided by a river? 70.15.116.59 (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As the article states, Pennsylvania Dutch is of german origin. Jersey Dutch is from Dutch. Ad43 (talk) 09:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, maybe I should ask a different question. The new American colonies were mostly English-speaking, with a small minority of settlers from Holland still holding on to the Dutch language. Then comes a wave of immigrants from the Palatine region in western Germany - about as far away from Holland as New Jersey is from Pennsylvania, at a time when Dutch vs. German was much less differentiated. So... what happened? Did the German and Dutch communities mix freely, mix partially, or remain entirely separate? Did the Dutch stay only in New Jersey while all the Germans moved on to Pennsylvania, or was there substantial overlap? 70.15.116.59 (talk) 17:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's somewhat off the top of my head, but I guess the latter. I think, different from the English, colonists, settlers and immigrants like the Dutch and Germans stuck much to their own territories and their own customs and/or religious communities. They were far less in number and had no outspoken imperialist objectives in these new areas. Ad43 (talk) 23:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Pennsylvania Dutch didn't really "move on" to Pennsylvania because most of them didn't live in New Jersey in the first place. They immigrated through Philadelphia for the most part. I'm sure there was probably trickles of movement back and forth, as there was a whole lot of mixing going on in colonial America in general, but for the most part the Jersey Dutch and the Pennsylvania Dutch were seperate communities just as much as they both respectively were from the mainstream English-speaking society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.148.217 (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Based on Zeelandic?[edit]

The article claims a Zeelandic or even e West Flemish basis for this dialect. The Prodigal Son sample seems to point in the direction of Hollandic instead: h- is present, and so are diphthongs ij and ui. All these sounds are absent from Zeelandic and West Flemish, as they are from Zeelandic-based creole languages in the Caribbean. Moreover, West Flemish speakers had little opportunity to settle in or around New Amsterdam in the 17th century, since they lived in the Spanish Netherlands, not in the Dutch Republic which undertook the colonisation. So where does this statement come from? Steinbach (talk) 18:33, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Jersey Dutch. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:31, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Negerduits[edit]

This section is lacking, Neger is the dutch translation for a certain racist term starting with an 'N' also, Duits doesn't translate to dutch. It means German in dutch The JOJOLands (talk) 08:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See the discussion above. The English word Dutch, and its equivalents Deutsch & Duits were until fairly recent times general terms for the whole of the West Germanic speaking people of Europe; it is only recently that the word Dutch has come to be limited in use to the Netherlands and Deutsch & Duits to what in present day English is called German. JBW (talk) 20:36, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vestiges[edit]

  • https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20191118-whats-left-of-new-yorks-dutch-past Djflem (talk) 18:29, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When Did New York Stop Speaking Dutch?". New York Almanack. Retrieved 2021-05-15.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jersey_Dutch_language&oldid=1203091788"