Talk:Half-track

Half-track

Given the importance of half-tracks in World War II, and the large variety of WWII material already on Wikipedia, I'm surprised there wasn't already an article on them. --Carnildo 03:55, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Merge/contradict

This article currently specifies that half-tracks have caterpillar tracks, which excludes Kegresse tracks, but this contradicts the info at Kegresse tracks. Meanwhile, this article goes into a bit of Adolphe Kégresse history, and links to Adolphe Kégresse, but that just redirects to Kegresse track. Perhaps everything should just be brought together? ENeville 04:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense. Kegresse is just an unusual kind of caterpillar track. —Michael Z. 2006-10-26 21:48 Z

No merge seems to be indicated. I have created a special article for Adolphe Kégresse himself, thus removing the unequal redirect. And moved the track article name to Kégresse, the correcter spelling :o).--MWAK 09:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Oops!

I came here to look for half-track protection scheme, as used on the C64 for example. Nothing there... -andy 80.129.109.188 20:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes made to last section, and changes still needed

1) I've done a straight copyedit on the "WWII half-track" section -- hopefully without changing the meaning. The following sentence needs to be moved near the top of the article, but that will cause other rewrites which I'm hoping someone else (an expert? someone who drives halftracks?) can do: "It is not difficult for someone who can drive a car to drive a half-track, which is a great advantage over fully-tracked vehicles."

2) The article should state, soon after the beginning, and quite methodically, the relative advantages and disadvantages of "fully-wheeled", "fully-tracked", and "half-tracked". The statement "being able to carry its own payload where wheeled vehicles could not go" is vague, and slightly misses the important point that each vehicle type is better at some things than other things. (That is, one might use a half-track, not because a wheeled vehicle could not go there, but because it can carry a larger load, is faster, is better in wet weather, etc.)

3) It then needs to be pointed out that sometimes skis are used instead of wheels. The initial picture of the Kegresse half-track using skis, and not wheels, is confusing, since the article starts by saying half-tracks have "regular wheels". Although it's historically in sequence, most half-tracks before snowmobiles used wheels. It would be nice to have picture of a snowmobile to accompany the Kegresse picture.

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 02:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Are snowmobiles considered to be half-tracks? If not, why not? If yes, then perhaps the article needs expanding or at least a link to a separate snowmobile article. Douglasson (talk) 19:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Why did they fall out of favour?

The article comments that they fell out of favour, but why? There are explanations as to the advantages of a half-track over fully-track or fully-wheeled vehicles, but nothing about the disadvantages... -Ellisthion (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Good point! I don't have a ready reference, but I remember reading something about this distantly ... if someone else can find a reference. There are two problems: 1) A half-track also has the disadvantages of both wheels and tracks, the tires are not as rugged as tracks, the tracks are not as quiet as tires, and not suitable for high speeds or delicate uses, 2) The system is inherently more mechanically complicated. Any basic auto mechanic will have an idea how to fix a flat tire, but ... a broken track? Cheers, Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 12:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

One reason is said that they don't work well in snow and sometimes sand.

I love halftracks to death hope to build one one day. But as rugged as they are, they have their limitations, you probably won't see one ever compete in the top truck challenge or rock crawling. But depending on track design they can do fairly well in sand and snow especially if 4wd. You'd need some sort of come-a-long or be creative if a track breaks or pops off depending on if it's band style tracks or sectioned tracks like tanks use. Oh and under pop culture I'm adding Danny Phantom because the Phenton RV is a halftrack. Jax Rhapsody —Preceding undated comment added 06:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC).

According to one source I read on the Battle of the Bulge, the original concept for the half-track was that it was a tracked vehicle that could be driven like a car, therefore, did not need special operator training. The half track has a differential driving the tracks, so to turn you just turn the steering wheel, as you would in a fully-wheeled vehicle. Their BIG disadvantage, particularly during the Battle of the Bulge, was that the American half-tracks were underpowered; most had White flat-head six cylinder engines, or similar powerplants. Thus, they could only tow cannon and other such heavy equipment while in a low gear, which made them very slow. Basically, they couldn't keep up with the tanks. The Sherman tank was very agile, even off the road. The half-tracks could barely keep up with the infantry during a brisk attack. Even on roads, they had a hard time keeping up with armored movement.65.81.79.71 (talk) 18:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that these things have the turning radius of a large battleship. It's more pronounced in the German versions, which as can be seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1-UPlMkNw tend to go wherever their tracks tell them to go regardless of the position of the front wheels, but the US variants also had issues with turning radius. I think, ultimately, it was their inability to actually go where you wanted them to go that saw to their downfall. Underpowered can be fixed with a bigger, more efficient engine, but there's only so much you can do about the abysmal understeer. With modern electronics you could blend brake steering on the tracks and wheeled steering up front seamlessly enough where anyone with a driver's license could drive one without understeer, but by that point you're just spending too much money trying to prop up a vehicle that just isn't worth the extra cost. 74.240.230.133 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:42, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Differing fore and back tracks

I just saw a machine with different forward and back tracks: for removing asphalt. The front treds were individually covered by a smooth material, while the back treds -- where the asphalt had been removed -- were more exposed metal. This isn't exactly the motivation of half-tracks as commonly understood, but it does seem related. Cheers, Piano non troppo (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

This article does begin with a definition "a civilian or military vehicle with regular wheels at the front for steering and caterpillar tracks at the back", later modified to include skis at the front. The early Tucker Snocats were like that but now SnoCats are more commonly thought of as having separate tracks at each corner. Your paving machine is like that, as is the experimental tracked Land Rover. These are not half-tracks by the definition given, but what is the correct term for such "multi-tracked" vehicles? Douglasson (talk) 19:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

What makes "Komsomolets" a halftrack?

I don't understand why the Russian "Komsomolets" is classified as a half-track when it looks like fully tracked vehicle. Maybe it should be removed from 'Halftrack' article? Mishaimpsbl (talk) 00:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Steam Log Hauler and BTR-152

In para 2 of the 'Steam Log Hauler' section, para 2, these two entries caught my eye:
"By 1907, dog and pony show operator..." and "By 1909 this was replaced by a smaller machine with two wheels at the front and a single track behind, since rural wooden bridges presented problems."
I think I know what a 'dog and pony show operator' is, but coming from the other side of the 'pond', I would say some sort of explanation or re-wording, is wanted; for me and the rest of the non-American English speaking world.
An explanation is also required for the second quote, as elsewhere in the article it says that a half-track's Ground Bearing Pressure is reduced, compared with a convential truck. Surely a single track would increase it. If a half-track's GBP is less than a truck, how does it present problems for 'rural wooden bridges'?

On clicking on the BTR-152 link near the bottom of the page, I noticed that the first picture quite clearly shows a six-wheeled vehicle; not a track in sight.

RASAM (talk) 20:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The ground bearing pressure is simply the weight divided by the ground contact area (eg weight per square inch). So, by making the contact area greater, the GBP becomes smaller (ie the same weight is spread over a larger area, so each square inch now has a smaller share of the original weight). This is generally a good thing. However, truck tyres are made from rubber, which is more compliant than solid metal. So the metal tracks would have a tendency to tear the surface and also to pass any engine vibrations through to the bridge.

I've always thought 'dog and pony show' meant a customer demonstration', the expression possibly derived from circus performances, meant to amaze the watchers. But it sounds like the mention in the article is about a real circus act using a tracked vehicle to pull the carriages around.  Stepho  talk  23:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation on GBP, Stepho, but it might be better if there was something in the article. Likewise, the 'dog and pony show' bit coud still do with de-mystifying, as I said above. And I'm still none the wiser about the BTR-152.

Regards, RASAM (talk) 11:40, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Citroen Half-track Expeditions

I would like to know a bit more about the inter-war expeditions that used the Citroen half-track, as per the header photo. Perhaps some info could be added to the civilian uses section or is there a suitable link? Douglasson (talk) 19:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

The roller

I had been wondering what the distinctive roller was for on the P17 and M3. This article did not have an answer but a M3 repair manual (page 222) says:

The roller is provided to aid in maneuvering though ditches and holes. By striking the bank first and rolling, it prevents the front end of the vehicle from digging into the bank of the ditch or hole, thereby helping the vehicle to roll up over the bank.

As it's a product of the US government we should be able to quote the manual directly if desired. I'd add it to the article now but don't see a good way to add this. The M3's roller has springs meaning the thing also protects the frame from the shock of hitting a bank. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Article here: Unditching roller. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.221.94 (talk) 20:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Ford Half-track ID Help

Dutch newsreel, 1929

I couldnt identify the Ford truck in this dutch video, published in march 1927. Any ideas? Alexpl (talk) 09:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Identification

?

Can someone help identify this vehicle? --Jarekt (talk) 19:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Sd.Kfz. 251 I guess. Alexpl (talk) 21:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

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Martel reverse half-tracks

How about to make atleast an honorable mention of Giffard Le Quesne Martel's reverse half-tracks (one man and two man Morris-Martel tankettes and Morris-Martel agicultural tractor)? Dieſelmaus (talk) 06:45, 4 November 2021 (UTC)