Talk:American crocodile

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Former good article nomineeAmerican crocodile was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 10, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed

Untitled[edit]

Not sure whether this is a useful redirect or not. At present it results in a loop from crocodile back to itself. I don't want to remove that link, as we do hope to someday have articles on all the living species. Difficult. Andrewa 15:17, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Only New World Species?[edit]

The article says that this is the only crocodile in the new world, but the article on crocodiles in general lists the Orinoco and Cuban crocodiles, both also in the new world. Surely this must be wrong? (Lars Marius Garshol, 2006-03-06)

The article's wrong. There are 4 recognized species in the Americas:
 1) American Crocodile (C. acutus)
 2) Morlett's Crocodile (C. morletti)
 3) Cuban Crocodile (C. rhombifer)
 4) Orinoco Crocodile (C. intermedius)
C. acutus is the only species found naturally in the U.S.A.

(sorry, but I accidentally deleted someone else's incomplete entry when I edited mine and I don't know how to reinstate it.) CFLeon 03:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected. Tjunier 09:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The article is not "wrong" - it has a source, which is more than can be said for the assertion above. Why is there a problem recognising that there are different views on the taxonomy, and reflecting this instead of just reverting my edits? jimfbleak 11:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You stated AS FACT there was only one species in the New World- when every other public source in the last several decades claims there's four; there was no mention of ANY controversy. The edit mentions only the Cuban Crocodile as a subspecies, which even the source cited gives it full species rank; and nothing was/is said about C. Morletti or C. intermedius. If you are going to 'go against the grain', at least say that you are doing so- or that "new research has shown that contrary to previous belief ...'. I'm not as up on the current DNA or immunulogical research as I used to be, but The Crocodilian Page (www.crocodilian.com) is probably THE major source on the web and they avocate 4 species; the article doesn't even mention them for a link. CFLeon 20:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CFLeon is correct. the New World is home to not only the American croc, but also the Orinoco Crocodile (Crocodylus intermedius), the Morelet's Crocodile (Crocodylus moreletii), and the Cuban Crocodile (Crocodylus rhombifer). Saying there is only one species in the New World is absolutely wrong. Furthermore, I know of no herpetology source that views the Cuban Croc as a subspecies of the American Croc, nor have I ever seen it mentioned. Infact, the 2 species live together in Cuba, as is stated in the very link on this article. The two are clearly seperate species. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/brittoncrocs/csl.html MFuture 19:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed it to be reflective of the actual opinion of real-life herpetologists. As an aside, does anyone know the current population in Florida? I think it would be pertinent to post in the article. CFLeon 20:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, I would have respect for an actual 'controversy' where the scientific opinion differs. This is not a 'controversy', it's a statement which goes against every other public source in the past 80 or so years, and not even saying there's a 'controversy' or giving THEIR source; and the source that they DO give, backs up the established version. Since the administrator is an ornithologist, he probably thinks that there actually is a real difference of mainstream scientific opinion. Uh-uh, nope, no way, Jose. Once again, check out the main source on the web: Crocodilian Online http://www.crocodilian.com/ They list 4 species of Crocodylus in the New World (as given twice above), and there is NO MENTION of ANY current thought to the contrary. No other book available in the US in the last 60 or so years (since before Ditmars in the '40s) even hints at the single species idea. The one source that be found other than this page is a single German reference pertaining to the Cuban Crocdile ONLY. Someone inventing a statement does not a reputable scientific 'controversy' make. CFLeon 21:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is still a problem. The article now says "four extant species of crocodilians from the Americas," but that is not true either. There are four extant crocodile species, but the term Crocodilian would also include alligators and caimans (of which there are obviously more than four species of in the Americas). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.123.5 (talk) 08:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Editing[edit]

There's a lot I would like to change about this page, but when I go to edit the page, there's an entirely different article there. I want to get rid of this:


"The largest member of the crocodilian family is the salt water crocodile. The salt water crocodile lives only in Australia."


But it isn't there when I try to edit. Same deal with this:


"The American crocodile has an estimated wild population of 2000 in South Florida where it's status has been recently upgraded from endangered to threatened[2], and 10,000 to 20,000 worldwide[citation needed] individuals"


-Misha

216.254.12.114 18:25, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Oxygenation in the heart?[edit]

This sentence sounds incorrect to me: "They have a four-chambered heart, like a bird, which is especially efficient at oxygenating their blood." The heart pumps blood; the lungs oxygenate it. Since I'm no expert, I'll leave it to someone else to confirm and change this, but it sure sounds wrong to me.

Hidesert 10:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction[edit]

I think that more evidence leans towards no fatalities in the US. Here are the sources I found.

  • The source in the article from Wilderness and Environmental Medicine says that there are no documented croc attacks in the US.
  • This article from the LA Times states: "In Florida, only one crocodile attack on a human has been documented, and that occurred in 1925, when a 14-footer reared up and seized a Biscayne Bay surveyor after he reportedly fired two bullets into the animal. The surveyor died, but the croc survived and was shipped off to a north Florida tourist attraction to perform under the name Zulu."
  • This page sponsored by the Florida Museum of Natural History and IUCN-SSC Crocodilian Group says that there haven't been any fatalities in Florida from American Crocs.
  • This book says that there have been no recorded fatalities in the US.
  • The St. Petersburg Times says no Floridian has been attacked by a crocodile.
  • This book mentions a Biscayne Bay death, but it says 1800s, and the man kicked it instead of shooting it.
  • This book says no substantiated attacks on humans, but this is probably in a US context in light of confirmed attacks in Mexico.

From these sources, it seems that the Biscayne Bay fatality is an anecdote, partly because the man has not been mentioned by name, and partly because the lack of corroboration of such a story. bibliomaniac15 00:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for digging into this! I will put in something to the effect of: "...there is an 17th century incident that may have resulted in an attack and fatality, but sources are anecdotal..." StevePrutz (talk) 01:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but it states that American crocodiles live only in the tropics. No part of Florida is actually tropical, so this statement is inaccurate. Parkuss (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Guinness Book of Animal Facts and Feats[edit]

The citation source needed added for the "Size" section is not necessary, so I deleted them. These three sentences were all based on Alan Wood's Guinness Book of Animal Facts & Feats": "This species is said to grow largest in the South American river basins, but even old males do not generally exceed 6 metres (20 ft). One claim in old hunting journal reports of a 7.3 metres (24 ft) male, but this is unconfirmed and considered suspect due to the lack of supporting evidence. A skull of this species was found to measure 72.6 centimetres (28.6 in) and is estimated to have belonged to a crocodile of 6.6 metres (22 ft) in length."

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:American crocodile/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I actually quick failed this, but realised it didn't meet the criteria, so I'm going to review this. I don't think it's anywhere near GA yet for the following reasons:

Final step after everything else is completed.
  • The species was scientifically recognized in 1875 Not true, Cuvier named the species in 1807 according to the taxobox, and not from a US specimen
Someone fixed this up!
  • No taxonomy section - does it have any relatives? Subspecies? Etymology of binomial name?
Etymology is non-notable. Someone else added a taxonomy sect.
  • How does it differ from the American Alligator or other New world crocodiles? Nothing to tell me here
  • How many teeth? when does it feed? (night mostly)
Really the same as all other crocs. Not needed on the species level.
  • Why is size not a physical characteristic? What is its colour? Does it vocalise?
Size is a subsection of phys. It can vocalize as a hatchling, like all other crocs.
  • Number and size of eggs? Where are they laid?
Really about the same as most crocs. Not needed on the species level.
  • Heavy US bias. Why is the tiny Florida population given its own section? Why is the US population given separate sizes? No attacks on humans by the American crocodile have been reported in the United States. so what? What is its protection status outside the US? CITES status?
I think the bias is because it is the only place where alligatorids and crocodylids share a range. That US attacks line should probably be removed.
  • The American crocodile is a vulnerable species in the United States ref for this is iucn, which is international, not US status
Fixed.
  • It is thought that this intolerance to cold is the reason why American crocodiles never spread as far northward as the alligators. source?
  • whole article needs a copy edit, veers between singular and plural. recorded as high as 4.6 metres are they flying or just standing vertically? and attacks Mexico - really? Species in the United States cohabitate a range... what?
  • ref formatting needs checking per MOS, including at least two bare http refs
Will go through refs with a fine-toothed comb after all other ducks are in a row.

Given the amount that needs doing, I would suggest withdrawing this from GAN, since I think there's too much to do in a week to bring it up to the mark. jimfbleak (talk) 09:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great suggestions. Thank you for looking at this! StevePrutz (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
On taxonomy, I thought that acutus is closer to the other three American crocs than to the Asian ones, with Nile Crocodile somewhere in between. Isn't that worth saying? I don't know if there are subspecies or not. Isn't any of this worth mentioning? I wouldn't think that for GA, and certainly not for FA, that you should expect readers to know that number of eggs, teeth etc are the same for all crocs (I didn't) and then expect them to look it up jimfbleak (talk) 16:01, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try to dig up some papers on taxonomy/phylogeny. I get your point about saying "no subspecies", now. I don't think the teeth and egg count are important for an encyclopedia article, but I could be wrong. At this point, it might be a few months before I can get it up to GA. Is there a special way to de-nominate it? StevePrutz (talk) 16:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you just take it off the list, along with my review tag. I'm no reptile expert, but I've written a lot of GA/FA articles, so let me know if there's anything I can help with. Have a look at existing reptile GA and FA articles too, if you haven't already done so. I think that there is enough on this croc to eventually make a GA and then FA article, but it needs a lot of work to get there, good luck jimfbleak (talk) 07:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Let's add: "Despite its proximity to Hispaniola, the American crocodile is not found in Puerto Rico." yet the distribution map clearly shows Puerto Rico in GREEN!!!!!! AHHHHH!!!!!!! OMG-Wikipedia is WRONG!!! AHHHHHH, again!!!!!!!!! 71.222.85.2 (talk) 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 71.222.85.2 (talk) 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 71.222.85.2 (talk) 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC) ``71.222.85.2 (talk) 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)~~ 06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)06:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

geographic wikiproject tags[edit]

Is there any official Wikipedia guidelines on when wiki project tags should be put on an article? It seems kind of strange to have one for almost every country that the American Crocodile lives in. based on precedent on the Cattle Egret and Leatherback turtle talk pages, I'm gonna remove them. Michael1115 (talk) 


21:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Mokele what is the largest american crocodile recorded?

from what I can see if the skull of this American crocodile did belong to a specimen 22 feet then the American Crocodile is the second largest crocodile on the planet not the Nile Crocodile although the Nile crocodile may weigh more but the American Crocodile would be longer in terms of length.

need some sort of behavior section[edit]

Has a lot of behavior mixed into description section.

Puerto Rico[edit]

The lead says, "Despite its proximity to Hispaniola, the American crocodile is not found in Puerto Rico." But there is a picture in the article that has their range in green, and Puerto Rico in green. - Wuffyz 09:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Removed that as was not referenced, inconsistent with the map, and did also not summarise the "Range and distribution" section. --Elekhh (talk) 06:57, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Although it might be true looking to this map, but still a description of where it is not found does not belong to the lead. However if confirmed than the map needs to be amended. --Elekhh (talk) 07:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Multiple contradictions[edit]

At one point, the article says that American alligators are often threat to, and are seen killing and eating crocodiles. At another point, it says American crocodiles are often dominant over alligators. At yet another point, it says the two rarely come into contact at all. If there's to be any cohesion in the article, these three stances should be reconciled. Luke Beall (talk) 00:24, 27 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

sharks and crocs interactions citations[edit]

For this statement "Nonetheless, a single recorded fatality was reported for a small adult American crocodile when a great white shark killed the American crocodile as it was swimming out at sea" what is the book page and exact name of the book please? ===Tony — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.92.18.34 (talk) 02:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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