Talk:Battle of Mycale

Reference to the Battle of Salamis

The first section makes the point that "it does not seem to have been attributed the same significance (even at the time) as, for example the Athenian victory at the Battle of Marathon or even the Greek defeat at Thermopylae." Good point, but I would suggest adding the crucial Battle of Salamis to these two. The Battle of Salamis was a stunning victory for the Greeks that stopped the unstoppable Persian navy and army in what was sure to be takeover of the entire Greek mainland and Peloponnese. Tony (talk) 21:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Milesians

Who are the Milesians? The link in The battle section suggests that they are somehow connected to Miletus of Greek mythology, but no mention of them is made in the Miletus article. Furthermore, there is a Milesians link, but it refers to the Sons of Mil Espaine (Milesius) from Irish mythology, which appears to be a different group. This inadvertent entanglement of these two Wikipedia uses should be straightened out with either a disambiguation page or a combined article, and this article's reference should point to the appropriate page. -- Jeff Q 07:28, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

The Miletus article is a little confusing - the ancient city was very real and one of the important cities of Asia Minor, the mythological eponym was unimportant. I'll work over the city article to clarify this. Stan 12:04, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Please also include some mention of who the Milesians are, if they are related to Miletus (and if you know, that is). With this information, I can figure out how to fix the corresponding pages and links, like the one in this article. -- Jeff Q 14:44, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

The Milesians are the inhabitants of Miletus - consonant change is just a little oddity of Greek. Stan 17:46, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

---

Mishkin can I see the sources you have cited for the Persian forces at 60,000 can you please give me the link and one that shows the Greeks were only 40,000, I am starting to feel you are a Greek bigot.

By the way Goldsmith in the discussion area is not going to cut it, provide it in a link, and a famous historian in the article.

---

It's not from a link it's from a book, which I'll quote for you:

The Persians apprised of their approach, and having long experienced their own inferiority, would not ventury to oppose them at sea, but drew up their ships upon land at Mycale, a promontory of Ionia, where they fortified themselves with a wall and a deep trench, while they were also protected by an army of sixty thousand foot, under the command of Tigranes.

Oliver Goldsmith - The History of Greece

As you can see, 60,000 is a minimum estimation. I'm starting to feel you're a blinded chauvinist and a vandal. Miskin 10:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

---

okay thanks, was that so hard, asking for more detail for the source I hope doesn't constitute a personal attack. Again, thank you for the source.

Casualty Figures

The casualty figures seem realy dubious, are there any sources availabel for them. I mean 815 vs. 40,000 and whole fleet, seems like the Persians just stood there as they were cut down. I'll place unknown for now, and hope their will be some sources for future changes.--Arsenous Commodore 17:33, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not dubious at all. When your army routs without an easy escape route because you've been overwhelmed, betrayed by your "allies" and "geography" there's often a complete massacre. Like Battle of Zama, Battle of Cannae and many many others. If anything the current heavy/heavy losses is totally dubious.79.103.136.133 (talk) 15:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Battle of Mycale/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   • References needed:

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

3. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

4. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

5. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

6. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

In the background it's totally missing how Darios rose to power through a putsch of six Persian nobles against the Median priest Gaumata who himself had killed the regent and become king after Cambyses II death. After Darios had secured his legacy, he subdued again most of the people of the Persian Empire because they had risen in revolt. This achievement was inscribed on the Stele of Bisutum/Bistum. The Greek revolt thus challenged his hold of the complete empire because if they could others could as well. Wandalstouring (talk) 17:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

True, but is that directly relevant for this battle? The main cause of the second Persian invasion was the defeat of the first invasion. Darius's history would seem (to me) to be more appropriate in the "Background" section of Greco-Persian Wars and Ionian Revolt (definitely), First Persian invasion of Greece (probably), and the battles of the first invasion (possibly). This battle was quite a long time afterwards, and since Darius was dead, I'm not sure it's directly relevant. Plus the background section already directs the reader towards those articles, if they want more information. MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 19:19, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

It would be enough if you mention that there were problems with uprisings throughout the empire and the Persians had to keep them in check in order to preserve their empire because they had established a precedence by taking power via a revolt. Without this it doesn't make sense why the Persian king should bother fighting these dangerous foreigners. They had quite an experience since Marathon. Of course, this needs also to be mentioned in all the other articles about this war, however, without the Persian background you mispresent them as driven by revenge and thus take a Greek POV. Wandalstouring (talk) 09:22, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I've inserted a concise mention of this at the start of the background of this and the other battles of the second invasion. A longer section can go in the "earlier" articles, which were nearer to the Ionian revolt. MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 08:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

There's a POV issue. Lazenby says that Xerxes retreated with little forces and even out of these most went back to the fight at Plataea. Holland may say otherwise, but these are your two most important secondary sources and you have to accomodate in case they conflict. I rewrote the lead to say that a substantial army was left behind, totally omitting what numbers Xerxes took with him. I advice you to discuss this in detail or find a phrase that suits both versions. Else, I have no beef with the current version and I think you did a good job presenting the Persian disposition. Wandalstouring (talk) 12:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The "bulk of the army" phrase was based directly on Herodotus. Holland avoids making any guesses, and as you say, Lazenby estimates that the bulk of the army stayed on. I've edited the sentence to make it clear that it is Herodotus who says that the majority of the army retreated. I'm happy for it to be discussed further in the intro, but since it's in the introduction, and not directly relevant to this battle, I don't think it needs to be. However, it might well be relevant for the Platea article - I will take a look.MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 11:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I appreciate that effort since we should keep our articles up to science. Wandalstouring (talk) 11:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

What's your source for 815 casualty figure? Paul August ☎ 19:36, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Battle of Mycale. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121012093419/http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/0382.html to http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/0382.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:19, 28 October 2016 (UTC)