Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Inbal Nitzan

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 05:04, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Inbal Nitzan

Delete - This article isn't encyclopedia worthy. The subject isn't notable, something evinced by the article where it casts doubt over whether she will ever achieve even national fame. 163.1.159.21 16:15, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. I found the article interesting, and I imagine other readers would too. She's in a field in which fame is unlikely; should street artists be excluded altogether for that reason? She's considerably more notable (known to many more people) as well as more interesting than the average person (including the average Wikipedia editor). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:31, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Not notable. There are many interesting things that aren't encyclopedic. If she achieved fame in a field in which it was difficult to attain then she would be notable, but by the article's own admittance, she hasn't. Street artists (as a class) shouldn't be excluded because their field is one in which fame is rarely achieved, but they (as individuals) shouldn't be included unless they are famous. There are many people who are more notable "than the average person", but this alone isn't sufficient to have a biographical article in an encyclopedia. Treborbassett 17:19, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Not notable. Being a street performer is not notable all by itself. DaveTheRed 19:10, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep street artists who get 5 minutes slots on TV. Kappa 19:35, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, not notable, possible vanity. Megan1967 23:29, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Compare to Wolf Krakowski, for example. While a nice article, the world is full of pretty decent street artists who never rise to fame. — RJH 19:39, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Comment I didn't know IP addresses could nominate VFD's. ral315 20:47, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • I scarcely think they couldn't do so. There appears to be no rule against it. Furthermore the very fact that I was able to do it suggests to me that IP addresses can nominate VFDs (i.e. de jure and de facto). I can't see why there would be any rule against it anyway.163.1.159.21 01:28, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• In response to Kappa: Why should someone who gets a five minute slot on TV also get an encyclopedia article? Treborbassett 01:32, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • • A TV company with limited time/space thought they were worth covering. This implies they are also worth covering in an unlimited encyclopedia. Kappa 07:07, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, ad. Wyss 02:18, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete A street mime... in an encyclopedia!?! This really is a case of "What on earth were they thinking?" Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 03:44, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: Street mime is a creative profession, like acting or being a musician, why shouldn't they be covered the same way? Kappa 08:04, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I think that they are covered the same way. Most street musicians don't (and shouldn't) have encyclopedia articles, nor do very minor actors. I think we're putting far too much weight on the 5-minute TV appearance here. Lots of people make brief appearances on TV. I've been on TV more than once, and I don't think that gives me any automatic right to an encyclopedia article. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:10, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
• Comments:

In what way could this be an advert? It's not even clear why it should be thought that it's vanity (the reasoning seems to be: this shouldn't be here, therefore the reason it was put here must be vanity, therefore it shouldn't be here, therefore...).

Where in the article does it mention that she's a mime? Given that there's an explicit reference to her reaching her audience though Hebrew, that rather suggests otherwise.

See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Inbal nitzan for further discussion. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:02, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Comment I don't think it's an advert.

A TV company thought she was worth five minutes of coverage. There must be thousands of people who have had five minute slots on TV. Furthermore, there must be armies of actors and musicians who (rightly) don't have encyclopedia articles because they don't have the notoriety. Treborbassett 14:36, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• I'm sure there are thousands of people who've had 5 minutes on national television stations as examples of their art form. Luckily wikipedia has no size limits, so all of them can be covered. Television coverage seems like a good barrier to vanity/spam. Kappa 15:13, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Doubtlessly true, but I don't think appearing on TV for 5 minutes as an example of a particular artist type merits inclusion in an encyclopedia. Who would look them up? Treborbassett 17:13, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Someone looking for examples of that kind of artist would look them up. If wikipedia tolerated a few street artists, we could have a nice annotated list of them inside Street artist instead of no examples at all. Kappa 20:12, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Since everybody gets their metaphorical fifteen minutes of fame, and this mime has so far had five, delete. Radiant! 18:29, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Good grief, does nobody read the discussion before voting? She's not a mime. The rest of the comment is just trying to be clever rather than thinking about the issue. But I really should be resigned to that after a number of these VfD farces. A gaggle of deleters pile in, having neither read the article nor the VfD discussion. Then they probably go off and churn out a dozen more articles on minor comuter-game or comic-book characters. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:44, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I think you might be making a slightly unfair generalisation there. To draw a correlation between 'deleters' and propagators of computer game character articles seems a little unfounded to me! Treborbassett 20:43, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • True — it was a rhetorical flourish (I forget the technical name of the figure). Looking at five of the current deleters, though, all but one seem to spend an unhealthily large proportion of their time doing little more than voting in VfDs... Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:06, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't see how useful an example of a street artist is if he or she isn't notable - what purpose does a list of non-famous people serve, even if they do exemplify a particular profession? Although, it has to said she is gaining some notoriety, albeit indirectly! Treborbassett 20:43, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • My point is that is she is notable in a verifiable way, the TV program wouldn't give 5 minutes to someone completely talentless. She doesn't meet any particularly *high* bar of notability, but that's inherent in her profession. Kappa 02:31, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• I hate to do this Mel Etitis, but the article does actually say that 'Nitzan made a name for herself in impromptu mime...' - I think we can take this as meaning that she is a mime (or at least was). How's that for reading the article? Treborbassett 20:48, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • But to call someone a mime is to imply that that's all they do (and the reference to Hebrew suggests that it isn't). That's particularly important given a fairly general aversion to mimes. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:57, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I'll give you that, but to say she's not a mime makes it sound like she doesn't do any mime at all! And why should people refrain from saying she's a mime if she does do mime? I'm not aware of any bad connotations of that word. If she does mime, she's a mime artist, even if she does do other art as well. I fear there's a danger of digression from the issue at stake here at any rate. Treborbassett 21:03, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • It might be a specific cultural phenomenon (though I'd thought that it was at least common to the U.K. and the U.S.); there was a time when mimes seemed to have become the acceptable targets of otherwise non-P.C. jokes. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:06, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I understand what you mean, but I don't see why this means that the word mime is unusable. The jokes might be politically incorrect, but I don't see that the word mime is. Again I'd like to emphasise the danger of digression here. I'm perfectly happy to discuss social attitudes to mime, but I think it's tangential to the subject of this page. Treborbassett 21:12, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • It's probably minor (many users simply vote 'delete' if they haven't heard of the person and get nothing on Google; lazy and un-Wikipedian, but depressingly common. Some, though, might be influenced by an aversion to mime artists (it's no sillier than most other reasons given). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:29, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • But she does do, or at least did, mime. I don't see why this fact should be concealed to protect the article against 'mime-haters'. Are you suggesting that we avoid using the word mime to deter those mime-haters who won't read the article but do read the discussion? Treborbassett 21:58, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Deletestreet artists who get 5 minutes slots on TV. RickK 00:54, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I don't see why a street-performer who is widely recognized and known by name (even if only a performance-name) by a large swath of the population of a major city (such as Tel Aviv) wouldn't be as notable as other types of performers whose fame is based on television performances, appearances in more traditional venues, etc. However, at present the article doesn't really establish this. Describing her as a "fixture" in the Tel Aviv "beach scene" isn't quite convincing, suggesting that she is more in the vein of an eccentric beach character. I don't know how to assess the 5 minute TV segment since I don't know whether the channel is important -- an "alternative culture" channel doesn't sound very mainstream. There is also the problem of the source and verifiability of the information in the article. I'm going to say *delete for now, but I'm open to changing the vote if more information is forthcoming. --BM 11:58, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unless third-party verifiability can be found pronto - David Gerard 18:05, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• No vote. Verfiability doesn't seem an issue, and street performers seem like potentially valid topics (I'm amazed we don't have an article about Artis the Spoonman, who was the subject of a chart-topping hit song by Soundgarden), but nothing in this article shows why she is a notable street performer. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:38, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • We don't even have an article on Thoth (movie) yet, and he won an Oscar. RickK 08:42, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.