Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/HistoryBuffEr and Jayjg/Evidence

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The material that was on this page, in the amount of 495kb, has been moved to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/HistoryBuffEr and Jayjg/Evidence/Full version. It is requested that those who wish to present evidence in this matter summarize their presentation following the structure and size limits of this page. Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to 1000 words and 100 diffs.

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Anomalous_phenomenon&diff=0&oldid=5584644] [1].

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to 1000 words and 100 diffs.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

Evidence presented by HistoryBuffEr[edit]

Evidence against Jayjg[edit]

The detailed evidence presented amply supports statements from the Request for Arbitration against Jayjg and more:

  • Jayjg is an extraordinarily tenacious pusher of pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian POV, to the exclusion of practically any statement not added or approved by himself or his group of like-minded compatriots. Hour after hour, day after day, Jayjg keeps reverting any attempt to NPOV any article related to Israel or Palestine, with almost never providing any explanation, justification, or reasoned objection to such edits (aside from regularly calling fair edits "vandalism".)
  • Jayjg is extremely biased on the subject of Israel and is unwilling to tolerate NPOV in any Israel related articles. Jayjg's discourse with NPOV editors consists largely of stubbornly reverting them and asking them to "propose changes in Talk first" for his approval. However, he does not consider himself subject to his "rule", as has never submitted his changes for pre-approval by anyone.
  • Jayjg has gone so far to even remove the "NPOV" notice from disputed articles several times.
  • Jayjg has turned his POV pushing into an organized around-the-clock effort; he leads a team of POV pushers which makes it nearly impossible to achieve any semblance of NPOV in the 400 articles which he and his team treat as their property.
  • Jayjg has been involved in numerous disputes with many editors.
  • Jayjg has on numerous occasions violated the "3-reverts max" rule; his access to the "Rollback" button has made his POV pushing much easier --- too easy: Jayjg has reverted without explanation hundreds of established users.
  • Jayjg has also abused his sysop privileges by reverting and then protecting articles.

Jayjg claims that the evidence presented is not representative of his work. However, he and his team have presented every case where Jayjg's edits appear to be less than his typical extreme POV pushing, and all those examples amount to just a handful of edits.

The evidence shows that much of Jayjg's work is concentrated on producing and preserving biased articles. And his organized POV pushing and frequent user disputes undermine the spirit of community of Wikipedia. As Jayjg is very active in one visible segment of Wikipedia, the goals of Wikipedia are likely to suffer without some modification of Jayjg's behavior, which has not changed appreciably since the start of this RFAr.

1. As Jayjg is still unwilling (or unable) to adhere to NPOV, his editing privileges in Israel related articles should be restricted for an extended period of time. Jayjg should be ordered to follow his own oft repeated mantra and "Propose changes in Talk first". Each and every one of those changes should be approved before being applied, by at least one editor who has no history of promoting Jayjg's POV.

2. Jayjg also deserves a ban for offensive behavior, which he seems to have no intention to discontinue: calling fair edits "vandalism", reverting without an explanation or justification, and bullying editors to submit changes to his preapproval.

3. As a prolific reverter and violator of 3RR, Jayjg should be banned like every 3RR violator, and placed in the "No reverts (except for true vandalism)" status for an extended period.

4. Last but not least, Jayjg has abused sysop rights and tools, but has rarely used his position for noble ends, such as mediating disputes. His admin privileges should be revoked, or at least suspended for an extended period of time.

(By: HistoryBuffEr 18:21, 2004 Dec 14 (UTC))

Response to Evidence against HistoryBuffEr[edit]

Let's review the Jayjg's Statement of complaint (bold emphasis added) in light of the: evidence against HistoryBuffEr, evidence in response to complaints and evidence against Jayjg:

  • "HistoryBuffEr has consistently insisted on completely re-writing stable articles in a highly POV way, in particular and most recently the Yasser Arafat, Ariel Sharon, Rachel Corrie, Sabra and Shatila massacre, articles, but others as well, including Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Arab-Israeli conflict." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
As the evidence above shows, it is actually Jayjg who is advancing extremist POV on Wikipedia, which he treats as his private sandbox. Just like with Jayjg's disingenuous RfM, which he admitted was intended to impose his POV on HistoryBuffEr, Jayjg is essentially asking the ArbCom to help him get his way on article edits.
HistoryBuffEr 19:58, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)
  • "Most significantly, in spite of dozens or perhaps hundreds of contested edits on these pages, HistoryBuffEr has refused to discuss any of them on the relevant Talk: pages, and in most cases has never even edited the Talk: pages, ignoring many invitations and requests to do so, as the edit histories of the article pages and Talk: pages show. As you will note, he generally ignores the Talk: pages on the articles, except to occasionally bully other editors with unspecified "warnings" and threats of "bannings", and refuses to discuss the changes he wishes to make to article content." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
This is a breathtaking passage, consisting of nothing but dishonest editorializing:
  • HistoryBuffEr has more Talk posts than Jayjg (relative to their total posts.)
  • Where are the examples where HistoryBuffEr refused to discussed edits? (Jayjg's requests for everyone to submit edits to his preapproval do no count as invitation to discussion.)
  • Where are the examples of HistoryBuffEr "ignoring Talk pages"?
  • Where are the examples of HistoryBuffEr "bullying with warnings and threatening with bannings on Talk pages"? Fair warnings of 3RR and NPOV violations are not bullying but required by rules.
HistoryBuffEr 19:58, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)
  • "He has also attempted to bully other editors by forcing ends to votes on VfD, in contravention of policy, even when these policies were explained to him by longstanding editors like user Cecropia." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
Another bald lie by Jayjg:
  • As shown in the evidence above, it was actually Jayjg and his band bullying others to force consensus where there wasn't one. I simply pointed out that we should follow the rules which state that VfD lasts for 5 days.
  • Cecropia, who was arguing otherwise (and biased because of voting in the VfD), soon ceased objecting.
HistoryBuffEr 19:58, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)
  • "These activities are a long-standing pattern with him, present from his very first edits on Wikipedia as IP 66.93.166.174." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
Yet more "solid" evidence. Where is the proof that these edits were made by HistoryBuffEr?
HistoryBuffEr 19:58, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)
  • "As a simple example of his POV, he has insisted that the only NPOV way of describing Israeli settlements (the generally accepted term) is as "occupation colonies", going so far as to removing direct links to the Israeli settlements Wikipedia article. Finally, on the few articles where he does use the Talk: pages, his comments are often highly abusive, violating Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Civility policies ..." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
Yet another string of misrepresentations by Jayjg:
  • I did not insist on "occupation colonies" as the only way, just argued that it is more neutral. And, in a recent discussion, Gornez, who does not like the term either, agreed that the term was acceptable to include.
  • If this is a "simple example of POV because it is a generally accepted term", what about Jayjg's refusal to accept the generally accepted term "occupation of Palestine"?
  • And what is the crime of "going so far" if replacing the term necessarily replaced a wikilink?
  • Again, where are examples of HistoryBuffEr's "highly abusive comments on Talk pages" prior to Jayjg stating this? There are none, and Jayjg is guilty of yet another false accusation.
HistoryBuffEr 19:58, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)
  • "... as are his edit summaries, referring to user Jayjg as "user Jag loser" and "user Jag vandal" and "ultra-ultra-Ortodox POV pusher Jayjg", user Lance6wins as "sneaky Lance6Loser", user Gadykozma as "vandal Gadykozma", user Humus Sapiens as "Humus doltius patheticus", user Ambi as "sophomoric redirector" and a "zealot", and in general referring to editors he disagrees with as "dolt", pest", "zealot", "childish", "agitprop troops", "Zionist dolt", "Zionist extremist", "Zionist hack", "Zionistas", and no doubt other names. He has refused mediation on this: Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation#Jayjg_and_HistoryBuffEr." (Jayjg 18:42, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)).
I have indeed used those terms, but as explained in the detailed reply above, context should be noted. Almost all of these were replies to incessant provocations by Jayjg and his troops, and many of these are merely descriptive of Jayjg and his POV pushing team.
HistoryBuffEr 05:44, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)

Apparently, most of the statements by Jayjg in his request grossly misrepresent the actual record. True, some of my edit comments were "colorful" and not curteous, but Jayjg's numerous revert "slaps", "vandal" calls and bullying to submit changes for his preapproval were far less polite or curteous.

Note that nearly all complaints are (greatly exaggerated) claims of discourtesy, and that none of the few POV editing related claims have been shown to be "highly POV" as claimed. On the contrary, all HistoryBuffEr's edits are fairly reasonable: most are clearly NPOV; those that appear debatable are acceptable as presentations of POV of the other side or at least fair points for debate.

So, the question is whether maintaining decorum in the back-rooms of Wikipedia takes precedence over the readers needs: the neutrality and content of articles.

As little as I have accomplished, it is far more than was accomplished in the area until I started contributing. Many had tried polite and gentle persuasion to advance NPOV in Israel related articles, but most articles were still full of unadulterated pro-Israel propaganda when I arrived. Now, at least some articles have either been revised to NPOV version, or have started moving towards NPOV. Compare these articles before and after I got involved:

Neither NPOV nor balance of editors in the area will be achieved by banning for decorum violations those attempting to fix highly biased articles, while excusing extremist POV pushers because they appear more polite (while being very rude in their actions.) As long as Jayjg and his POV pushing team are allowed free reign in Israel related articles, history suggests that few editors will want to waste their time and patience on futile attempts to NPOV these articles.

(By: HistoryBuffEr 18:21, 2004 Dec 14 (UTC))

Evidence presented by MPerel[edit]

13 Sep[edit]

2 Oct[edit]

  • 16:54, Oct 2, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr attempted major POV rewrite of George W. Bush as IP 66.93.166.174 [8]. Though he edited or reverted article 11 times in one day, he did not propose or support any of his own changes in Talk, and instead insisted that other editors post their objections to his major changes in Talk [9][10].

5 Oct[edit]

6 Oct[edit]

  • 03:48, Oct 6, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr made substantial changes to Israeli West Bank barrier [15] and inserted NPOV notice. Several editors challenged him to state his POV complaints in Talk, but he only returned Oct 24 to insert TotallyDisputed notice. Though he reverted or edited article 15 times over five weeks, his 5 eventual talk entries were to evade discussing what he specifically disputed, insisting that others read through the article edit summary history instead [16][17][18][19][20]. Especially note last Talk link on Nov 12.

18 Oct[edit]

  • 07:40, Oct 18, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr began editing Sabra and Shatila Massacre [21], working toward a complete POV rewrite [22]. He edited or reverted article 12 times the first two days until it was protected on Oct 20. He entered only 4 minor insulting edits in Talk [23][24][25][26], mostly involving edits by others, but none discussing dozens of changes he was attempting to make. He also insisted that others use Talk to dispute his changes, rather than him using Talk to propose them in the first place (e.g. [27]). When article was unprotected Nov 8, he reverted to his version 15 more times, still refusing to use Talk page himself and insisting others post objections to his edits in Talk [28].

21 Oct[edit]

  • 03:15, Oct 21, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr began editing Rachel Corrie [29], repeating pattern of complete re-writes [30]unaccompanied by any activity in Talk. He edited or reverted article 35 times over two weeks making only 2 comments, both personal and abusive threats toward Jayjg [31][32]. Yet he insisted that other editors object in Talk [33][34][35][36]. He subsequently reverted to his version 14 more times over the next eight weeks, continually insisting that no objections to his version had been raised (e.g. [37]), though they clearly had [38][39].

22 Oct[edit]

24 Oct[edit]

25 Oct[edit]

29 Oct[edit]

  • 18:17, Oct 29, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr began editing Yasser Arafat [76], working toward creating a new POV version [77]. He edited or reverted article 66 times over two weeks before entering any Talk, while insisting other editors post objections in Talk [78]. He subsequently reverted to his version an additional 35 times over the next six weeks.

31 Oct[edit]

  • 22:36, Oct 31, 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr began editing Ariel Sharon [79], on his way to a substantial re-write [80]. He edited or reverted article 25 times over five weeks with 0 discussion in Talk, while insisting others post objections in Talk [81].

5 Nov[edit]

10 Nov[edit]

14 Nov[edit]

3 Dec[edit]

Evidence presented by Jayjg[edit]

Summary of case[edit]

HistoryBuffEr has repeatedly substantially re-written or completely replaced articles with his own POV versions, in a way that makes it extremely difficult to compare to previous versions. He generally refuses to use the Talk: pages to discuss his new articles, while insisting that other editors must post any objections to his new articles in Talk: pages. Instead he often uses Talk: pages and edit summaries to abuse other editors. These actions inevitably incite edit wars, and HistoryBuffEr has repeatedly violated the 3 Revert Rule to support his new articles. He has also furthered his edit warring by inserting totallydisputed and POV templates in articles which he hasn't completely re-written, while refusing to discuss the issues he has with the articles. These actions even continued throughout the arbitration process, including on the evidence pages themselves. Finally, on the articles in question I have generally not added much original information at all, and the small number of edits I have made have been sourced and NPOV. The evidence presented here by me and others supports this summary.

16 Jul[edit]

  • 18:11, 16 Jul 2004
    • In Anti-Zionism Jayjg demonstrates NPOV; reverts insertion stating that the Catholic Church opposes anti-Zionism as a manifestation of anti-Semitism,[101], due to dubious nature of conclusion, though he believes some forms of anti-Zionism are anti-Semitism. [102] Does the same on July 19. [103]

13 Sep[edit]

  • 10:44, 13 Sep 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr replaces Arab-Israeli conflict article, introducing the neologism "occupation colonies" in place of Israeli settlement, and phrases like "the conflict is kept on the front pages by the pro-Israeli media and business interests" and "About 2/3 of Palestinian Arabs were killed, maimed or expelled by Israeli forces or fled the Israeli terror" .[104] Thereafter continues to replace explicit wikilinks with the neologism in various articles (e.g. [105] [106]). Also continues using similar language in other edits or articles (e.g. "Israel's pogroms of 1948 resulted in deaths, maiming and ethnic cleansing of more than 870,000 inhabitants" [107], "Palestine Jews then [...] began killing, expelling and terrorizing the indigenous Arab population, ethnically cleansing about 870,000 (about 80%) of native Arab population" [108]).

26 Sep[edit]

  • 22:15, 26 Sep 2004

29 Sep[edit]

5 Oct[edit]

12 Oct[edit]

13 Oct[edit]

17 Oct[edit]

21 Oct[edit]

  • 04:00, 21 Oct 2004
    • In Operation Days of Penitence HistoryBuffEr summarizes the statement "The redeployment was accompanied by warnings that the troops would be back if the rocket attacks resume - which analysts on both sides say is likely." from this source [140] as "Analysts on both sides agree that Israel's proclamation of success is premature because the cause for attacks on Israel has not been removed and this bloody invasion has probably inspired more Palestinians to join active resistance." [141]

22 Oct[edit]

  • 19:38, 22 Oct 2004

23 Oct[edit]

  • 03:22, 31 Oct 2004
    • In Yasser Arafat HistoryBuffEr inserts a description of Said Aburish (a Palestinian Muslim biographer of Arafat) as a "Christian Lebanese journalist based in London (and holder of an American passport) who is highly critical of Arafat" [145]. When shown to be wrong [146], completely removes all reference to Aburish and his findings from the article, with the edit summary "Revise POV added by Arafat's enemies (Sharon's bio is by his lovers, must be same POV pushers!)"[147]

25 Oct[edit]

28 Oct[edit]

31 Oct[edit]

  • 02:25, 31 Oct 2004
    • In Yasser Arafat HistoryBuffEr inserts a description of Forbes magazine as "pro-Israel" in response to Forbes estimate of Arafat's personal wealth as "at least $300 million" on Forbes well-known lists of wealth.[152]
  • 13:06, 31 Oct 2004
    • In Yasser Arafat Jayjg demonstrates NPOV; removes an unsourced claim that Arafat's support of his wife Suha is "extravagant". [154]
  • 19:21, 31 Oct 2004
    • In Yasser Arafat Jayjg demonstrates NPOV; removes an unsourced smear regarding Arafat's alleged homosexuality, and also removes assertion that the sources contradicting Arafat's claim he was born in Jerusalem were the "most reliable". [155]

1 Nov[edit]

  • 21:42, 1 Nov 2004
    • In Talk:Yasser Arafat Jayjg demonstrates NPOV; argues that a claim that Arafat waved a pistol at the U.N. should be removed, and offers evidence that the claim is false.[159]

5 Nov[edit]

  • 18:11, 16 Jul 2004
    • In Talk:Ariel Sharon, when a user wants to lower estimates for Palestinians killed in the Sabra and Shatila massacre, Jayjg demonstrates NPOV; tells them that some estimates were much higher, and that it was best to include the entire range. [160]

11 Nov[edit]

  • 22:21, 11 Nov 2004
    • Neutral third party Quadell attempts to overcome edit war on Munich Massacre by writing a compromise version. [161]. HistoryBuffEr agrees to this, and not to revert to his own version. [162] However, HistoryBuffEr soon reverts to a version considerably different from Quadell's version [163], and, in fact, identical to his own pre-Quadell version, [164] claiming "There was no agreement, the so-called compromise version is almost identical to POV version)."

21 Nov[edit]

29 Dec[edit]

  • 04:46, 29 Dec 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr refers to Jayjg as an “agitprop” [168].

Evidence presented by Humus sapiens[edit]

28 Sep[edit]

30 Sep[edit]

  • 11:55, 30 Sep 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr promotes the views of HAMAS (officially designated a terrorist group in the US, the EU, Canada, etc) in denying Israel the right to exist: [170]

1 Nov[edit]

6 Nov[edit]

  • 10:41, 6 Nov 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr's attempt to falsify the vote results: [172] averted: [173].

Evidence presented by SlimVirgin[edit]

28 November[edit]

21:43, Nov 28, 2004

HistoryBuffEr deleted from Yasser Arafat a large amount of fully referenced material about the 1972 Black September attack on the Munich Olympics in which 11 Israeli athletes died. [174] He ignored requests for an explanation on Talk:Yasser Arafat and on his own talk page. He reverted four times in just over 24 hours.

  • 1st revert, 21:43, Nov 28, 2004 [175];
  • 2nd revert, 08:20, Nov 29, 2004 [176];
  • 3rd revert, 18:58, Nov 29, 2004 [177];
  • 4th revert, 23:16, Nov 29, 2004 [178]

29 November[edit]

08:16, Nov 29, 2004

When asked why he was deleting, HistoryBuffEr initially did not respond, but then did respond with: "Sorry, I don't have time for someone with 750+ edits and obvious bias pretending to need an explanation of editing process. Have a nice day. HistoryBuffEr 08:16, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)." [179]

8:32, Nov 29, 2004

When asked again, he replied: "When your repeated posts are ignored it's a hint to rethink your argument. As you keep recycling the same trash here and on my user talk, here are more clues: In view of your 750+ edits, your "question" on "removed" material is obvious trolling and will be ignored. Your assertion that 1 unsubstantiated rumor printed in a newspaper counts as 2 "disparate" sources is laughable. Your presentation of Morris, who advocates ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and calls them "a very sick society", as "pro-Palestinian" is worse than a bad joke. Have a nice day, and stop spamming and reverting my user page. HistoryBuffEr 18:01, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)" [180]

Evidence presented by Viriditas[edit]

14 Sep[edit]

18 Oct[edit]

  • 19:43, 18 Oct 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr attacks MathKnight and calls his edits illiterate [184] and twice accuses MathKnight of "vandalism" [185] [186]; and refers to MathKnight as part of "Jayjg's POV pushing troops" [187]

18 Nov[edit]

Evidence presented by MathKnight[edit]

22 October[edit]

  • 01:53, 2004 Oct 22
    • Writes on the talk page:

      The dispute exists only in your extremist head. Even your Fuehrer admits it, so get over it. HistoryBuffEr 01:53, 2004 Oct 22 (UTC)

      [189]


29 December[edit]

  • 04:35, 29 Dec 2004
    • HistoryBuffEr deleted the existing version of the article, which was worked out lengthy in talk by User:SlimVirgin, User:Pravda and me - with productive results - and replaced it with a wholesale rewrite of the article - which is both POV and biased and even factually disaccurate. [190] In his edit summary he writes: "Restore the more detailed and neutral version to which no objections have been made" which is not true, as he balantly ignored this, and even this. MathKnight 10:42, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • 04:39, 29 Dec 2004
    • Same for Yasser Arafat article, repeated attacks, deleting the existing article and replace it with an wholesale rewrite which was proven both biased and inaccurate. [191] For more details, please see: [192]. MathKnight 10:54, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Evidence presented by {your user name}[edit]

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