User talk:Hippophaë~enwiki

Leave a question or a comment please. I will reply on this page.

Suomalaiset kansat

Your input would be appreciated at Talk:Finnic. --Johan Magnus 23:16, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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OK, I'll check the page. As far as I know, Finnic = Fennic = Baltic-Finnic. --Hippophaë 20:30, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! --Johan Magnus 16:31, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Uralic languages

Hippophe,

About your types on the uralic page: 80% is not characteristic for all languages.

This does not make any sense, does it? Antifinnugor 20:40, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The word list is so minimal, and full with not similar words, is it? Antifinnugor 20:40, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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All features listed in the article are typical of the Uralic languages. They are evident in conservative languages (like Finnish and Nenets), whereas innovative languages (like Hungarian and Estonian) may have lost some of them recently.

The Uralic vocabulary contains about 200 words. Derivatives increase this number a lot. --Hippophaë 20:30, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Except agglutination, which is common, and the common agglutinative features (no grammatical gender, possessive pronomes) there are no common features. Antifinnugor 09:31, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This number is strongly exaggregated. There are maximal some dozen ones, and lots ground words are typically very different. Besides that, only nominativ can be compared with nominativ, do you agree? Otherwise it is simply cheating. Antifinnugor 09:31, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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The word stem is an important form of a word in the Samic-Finnic languages. You cannot omit it. --Hippophaë 10:50, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Hippo: vein is ér in Hungarian. If you add words, should do that correctly. Please only ONE word for one notion. Your many words are confusing and senseless. List of similar words in these languages are typically full of mistakes, just check the internet. The wikipedia should not be that bad reference, do you agree? Antifinnugor 08:22, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Please do NOT delete the selected ground words. What you do is simply terror. Also do not censor the links. Are you so afraid of the truth? Antifinnugor 07:49, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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You also need the inflectional stem of Finnish and Estonian words, if you are not familiar with the orthography and inflectional system of those languages.

Hungarian ín and Finnish suoni are etymologically equivalent. These words are also found in the Finnish-Hungarian dictionary. The English translation may not be exact enough. --Hippophaë 09:46, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Samic languages

I'm not sure which variety of Sami it is; the list is extracted from the Encyclopaedia Britannica article "Languages of the World", Uralic subsection, and regrettably it doesn't state which variety of Sami it is. If you can replace it with a properly attributed dialect, that would be great. - Mustafaa 23:27, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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I replaced it by North Sami. --Hippophaë 09:47, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hippo, please stop your terror

Hippo, please do not delete: - Mr. Maracz link - Finnish-Hungarian ground word list - The text of the critic. It is short, but true.

What you do is blind terror. Are you really that primitive, and without arguing, you just eliminate others work;

ín is not vein in Hungarian.ín is leader/sinew/tendon in English, but not vein. Please stop including erroneous words. Or correct the English word and the others also. Your list is simply wrong.

Please argue, your deleting terrorism is senseless. Obvoiusly you will continue this forever- let's see, who has more patience, the terrorist hippo, or the rest of the world.

The finish Hungarian word list is not specific finish words with this or that origin, but fundamental words, that are contained in every language. Please do not delete them, they illustrate both languages elementar, oroginal words.

Antifinnugor 11:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Antifinnugor, I appreciate your cooperation, but please do not write on subjects which you are not familiar with.

Hippo, you think, you are god, and you can decide, who is familiar with what subject and who is not?

If you have questions or want to discuss the topic, use the talk page instead of adding comments and questions in the article.

Hippo, yes, please do that.

You should also notice that the reader of an encyclopaedia is not interested in the personal opinions of the authors. --Hippophaë 20:42, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hippo The user is especially not interested in your god-like cockyness, but is interested in real facts. Your wrong typology and even worse erroneous word lists just propagate your lack of knowledge of the subject. Sorry to say that, but someone must tell you the truth.

Hippo, please stop your terror and primitive rowdyness. 20:44, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Support for Finno-Ugric theory in Finland

Hi, As I'm sure you're aware of by now, there is a debate around Finno-Ugric languages in Hungary. We're trying to write about this on the Hungarian WP pages. We began to summarize the history of linguistic theories and one of the issues that came up was the support for the Finno-Ugric theory in Finland.

Specifically there was a paragraph saying (rough translation):

"The Finns began to distance themselves from the Finno-Ugric theory as early as the 1950's, and today they tend to support the "Finnish-continuity" theory and Germanic origins."

This sounded very surprising to me, since I knew a Finnish co-ed who studied Finno-Ugric theory and even spoke Hungarian. (And this wasn't before the 50s, it was 1998).

Also, if you could show me any pointers where there is proof for the support (or the lack thereof) for the Finno-Ugric theory in Finland (like pages in English or German) it would help us, Hungarian WP editors tremendously.

I appreciate your help, Nyenyec 23:04, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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It is evident that Finnish, Hungarian, and several other languages belong to the Finno-Ugric languages and they form the Uralic language family together with the Samoyedic languages. There is no proof which could show that this was not a valid theory. --Hippophaë 21:36, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It is a dogma, isn't it? The dogma of St. Hippo. Hallelujah. Antifinnugor 09:22, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hippo, do you shame Finnish language?

Hippo, whenever I put the list of some simple ground words onto the page, you delete. Do sou shame the Finnish language, your mother tongue? By parroting about my "incompetence" and other personal insults again me you only reveal your simple mindedness and ill behaviour. Antifinnugor 15:50, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Here some of the ground words in Finnish and Hungarian.

English	Finnish	Hungarian	English	Finnish	Hungarian
father	isa	apa, atya	mother	äiti	anya
brother	veli	fivér	sister	sisar,sairaanhoituja	nõvér
leg	jalka, jalan	láb	fire	tuli	tûz
earth	maa, multa	föld	forest	metsikkö, metsä	erdõ
lake	järvi, meri	tó	sea	meri	tenger
way	tie, ajotie	út	path	kuja, polku	ösvény
god	jumala	isten	luck	onni	szerencse
border	raja	határ	grass	ruoho	tenger
family	perhe	család	child	lapsi	gyerek
tooth	hammas	fog	nose	nenä	orr
language	puhekykky, kieli	nyelv	milk	maito	tej

This list makes no sense here and it contains several errors:

This list is absolutely necessary here to illustrate the (un)similarity of Finnish and Hungarian using ground words. Never heard about linguistic and grammar/dictionary comparison?

• õ and û do not belong to the correct Hungarian orthography

They are very often used in this form. Finnish does not have 14 Hungarian characters (one of the big unsimilarities), among others no ő and ű, other notation õ and û. Probaly that's why you dont know them.

• isa, puhekykky, sairaanhoituja, and nemä are not Finnish words at all

Thanks, now I corrected them

• the list contains Germanic and Baltic loan words, e.g. hammas, äiti, meri etc.; one should use original Finnish words instead

They are in my dictionary. You are free to correct the list to correct, present day Finnish. However, only nominative forms, please, do not cheat with non-nominative forms, like in case of kaksi, etc...

• some words are already in the other list on the same page, there is no need to repeat them

Well, they are ground words. You are free to exclude them, but please do not delete the whole list.

• Finnish and Hungarian are not the only Finno-Ugric languages; the table should also include Estonian, North Sami, Erzya, Meadow Mari, and Komi at least.

You are free to add them, if you know any. The list just illustrates the "similarity" of Finnish and Hungarian first. This is more than enough. I never told, the others have similar words, I know, they don't have, which disproves your dogma even stronger. Please feel free, add the similar ones, if any. Antifinnugor 09:14, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is not a dictionary, use Wiktionary instead

--Hippophaë 21:27, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You may use wiktionary for any purpose, you like. In this case we are doing linguistic comparison, and word comparison is a tool for that, besides grammar comparison. You never heard about this? Antifinnugor 09:22, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hippo, do not revert

Hippo, if possible, please do not demonstrate your unscrupulousness, primitivness and wildness, and unability to think by reverting again. Especially leave the reference in to the critic of these groups. Then we can avoiding your primitive reverting orgias in the future. Thanks. Antifinnugor 08:46, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Bír and rendelkezik do not mean what is understood by the verb "have". All Uralic languages have verbs with the meaning "own" or "possess", but they are not synonyms to "have" nor are they used instead of it. Examples:

• Hungarian: bír
• Finnish: omistaa; omata
• Estonian: omastada; omada
• North Sami: oamastit; atnit

--Hippophaë 15:49, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hippo, you are wrong again. Bír and rendelkezik is the exact analogous word for have, own, possess. What meaning of 'have' are you talking about here (if any at all?) ? Antifinnugor 17:40, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You are wrong. The words bír and rendelkezik and the equivalent words in Finnish, Estonian, and North Sami mentioned above do not mean what is understood by the verb "have". Some examples which show that "have" is not a synonym to these words:

• I have a disease.
• She has a brother.

--Hippophaë 22:13, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have a dog= Van egy kutyám =van= I have, a= egy, kutyám= my dog.

Therefore your whole reasoning is invalid for Hungarian. Hungarian does have have=van, but uses it much more seldom, than non-agglutinating languages. Finnish is like Russian and slawic languages in this case (also in the case of the non existing articles), it does NOT have such a verb. Please correct the main page, without removing the link to the critic page. Thank you. Antifinnugor 12:28, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Tables

Both the finnougric and the uralic page contain wrong word tables.

 English    Finnish    Hungarian
 vein       suoni      ér
 tendon     jennä      ín
 father     isä        apa
 ancestor   esi-isä    õs

This is how it looks correctly. If the words in the table do not match the English ones, people are badly informed, and this is therefore a bad table. Also the English words after the Hungarian ones suggest, these are Hungarian words, which is absolutely confusing. If a vikipedia editor believes, that suoni and ín are somehow relatid, should try to prove that. Father and õs's relation is somewhat more believable by looking at the words, this can be also mentioned. Thank for fixing that. Antifinnugor 20:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Please, familiarize yourself with the term cognate. The table is not a dictionary but a list of cognates. --Hippophaë 20:19, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

hipo, I know what is cognate. The tables are Incorrect. It has nothing to do with cognate or not cognate. Even you should be able to understand this. Thanks, Antifinnugor 10:08, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Encyclopaedia Britannica

The list of cognates came originally from Encyclopaedia Britannica, but it has been corrected by many people afterwards. --Hippophaë 17:06, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I could not find them there. Where are they? Antifinnugor 12:14, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

forgot, hipo? Never knew? Antifinnugor 21:08, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

See the printed version. I did not add the table. --Hippophaë 00:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Jänne

Ok, hipo, you center of my heart, thanks. One learns every day. Why do you write also jändek? Why do you write ten words for two in the cognates table? Are they different cases? Nominativ will be compared only with nominativ, as you probably do not know. Antifinnugor 20:55, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Finnish, Estonian, Northern Sami, or other Finno-Lappic languages are not only agglutinative but also inflective languages. If you are not familiar with them, you will also need the stem of a word, because the nominative case often has sound changes that might look very confusing. --Hippophaë 00:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

AFU RFC

I just wanted to let you know that your name is mentioned several times in the Antifinnugor RFC. You're probably weary of all this, but you may want to check it out: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Antifinnugor.

Nyenyec 16:07, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for this piece of information. I haven't noticed the page earlier. --Hippophaë 22:48, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

WP:RM

I have made some format changes to your entry on WP:RM. Please read the guidelines on WP:RM

• What to do on the talk page
• What to do on this Requested moves page

to make sure that all the steps needed for a requested move have been completed. Philip Baird Shearer 18:32, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. I added the requested note on the talk page. --Hippophaë 18:49, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Category: fi-4

That was a lightning fast edit! ;-) --Janke | Talk 23:56, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I realized that it is quite a new template only after I had changed the text. :) --Hippophaë 00:37, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I had created it just a few minutes before you edited it! --Janke | Talk 00:43, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

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