Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Treaty of Finkenstein
Treaty of Finkenstein was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep
Treaty of Finkenstein[edit]
This page looks deceptively good (no red links etc) but Googling reveals that there has never been a Treaty of Finkelstein, nor is the historical context plausible (Napoleon never got to Persia). JFW | T@lk 00:21, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Delete JFW | T@lk 00:21, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Keep: "Treaty of Finkenstein" gets non-Wikipedia Google hits, and I turned up references to it in legitimate books (for example The Cambridge Shorter History of India), so I don't believe it's a hoax. The details may need checking but the article should be kept. —No-One Jones (m) 00:31, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. Sounds like a legitimate treaty on the surface. I am not a historian though. --JuntungWu 01:07, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Comment [1] is a book whose publisher's description says "Franco-Persian relations have long been neglected by Napoleonic scholars, however, they show how Napoleon's political and strategic thinking extended far beyond the frontiers of Europe. Begun in 1802 under the Consulate, those relations culminated in the signature of the Treaty of Finkenstein, on 4 May 1807, and the dispatch of the Gardane Mission to Tehran." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:12, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- OK, Keep. It's a rewrite/extract/paraphrase of part of an article in the 1911 Britannica [2] as follows: [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:18, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- In the spring of 1807, when Russia and Prussia were at war with France, and the emperor Alexander I. of Russia was also engaged in hostilities with Persia. the court of Teheran sent a mission to the French emperor, then at the castle of Finkenstein in the east of Prussia, with a view to the conclusion of a Franco-Persian alliance. This was signed on the 4th of May 1807, at that castle; and Napoleon designed Gardane as special envoy for the cementing of that alliance. The secret instructions which he drew up for Gardane, and signed on the 3oth of May, are of interest as showing the strong oriental trend of the emperors policy. France was to guarantee the integrity of Persia, to recognize that Georgia (then being invaded by the Russians) belonged to the shah, and was to make all possible efforts for restoring that territory to him. She was also to furnish to the shah arms, officers and workmen, in the number and to the amount demanded by him. Napoleon on his side required Persia to declare war against Great Britain, to expel all Britons from her territory, and to come to an understanding with the Afghans with a view to a joint Franco-Perso-Afghan invasion of India.
- This looks like a perfectly acceptable article. Keep. DS 02:35, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Keep: DCEdwards1966 03:44, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
- OH MY GOD. WHAT HAS HAPPENED? WE'RE KEEPING AN ARTICLE ON SOMETHING NON-VERIFIABLE VIA GOOGLE?! EXTREME HOLY MOTHER OF KEEP. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 04:26, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Of course it's verifiable via Google: 29 hits, most of them relevant. And how do you think I found it in the Britannica 11th? It's just tricky because the exact phrase "Treaty of Finkenstein" doesn't appear in the article. Did you think I was such a great historian that it just happened to occur to me to look up Claude Matthieu, Count Gardane in my print copy of the Britannica 11th? I can no longer trace the lateral thinking that got me there, but a search on Claude Matthieu Finkenstein brings it right up. Google and the Web do not always locate useful material on a topic, but are very good at confirming basic existence. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 11:58, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.