User talk:Wetman/archive12Aug2004

Please add your new remarks at the bottom, so we can find them. I'll know where to file them when I have time...

A useful directory to sources of public domain images is Wikipedia:Public domain image resources

See also:

User talk:Wetman/archive3Mar2004

User talk:Wetman/archive16Jun2004

Thanks

Thanks for your attention to the Sacred fire of Vesta. I think you left a sentence at the end that you wanted elsewhere, so I moved it; have a look and see if I was right. My new motto, though it will have to be made wittier, will be something along the lines of "All Tesla ideas belong under the tin-hat of a single article...his." - Nunh-huh 07:38, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Tesla, Edison and Westinghouse is an interesting theme. Tesla attracts zanies, though. Vesta needs a lot of stoking... Wetman 07:47, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes, since her fires are apparently static electricity produced from amber...oh, wait, that would be stroking.... But I agree with all you've said and left unsaid<G>. - Nunh-huh 08:19, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks also

Thanks for the flattering words at Talk:Moloch. I wrote the Moloch article with careful thought about how to present the matter to a reader unfamiliar with the issues and still include full technical commentary on every occurrence of the form in the Bible. I'm not altogether satisfied, but there are so many other current articles crying for cleanup in the area of mythology and legend – far more than are ever listed for cleanup – and new articles needed to provide backup reference, that I will probably mostly let it be for a time, except probably to add some more Moloch literary references.

That the article called for quoting of Flaubert's wonderful senasationalist prose certainly didn't hurt it. jallan 00:33, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Aye. Quotes, like good illustrations, add life to Wikipedia. It's important to present pagan deities with tact and modern scholarship, rather than only through the perspective of Victorian Bible dictionaries, I feel. Wetman 00:44, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Academia

Please don't remove that much material from a featured article without at least a prior heads up on the talk page. Your edit dramatically changed the meaning of that section and is a change that should be discussed. Removing that material prevents it from being fixed and offering different viewpoints. You may believe the Church was not that influential in medieval academia, but you could be wrong. Thats what the talk pages are for: collaborative editing. - Taxman 13:07, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)

(Perhaps Taxman hadn't yet seen the essential material that I moved to the Talk:Academia page, which I placed there under the rubric "Liberal Arts" because the material I changed was only about medieval use of "liberal arts." At least I added a mention of Martianus Capella, who hadn't even been mentioned previously. I hate it when people suppress good information, myself... Wetman 03:28, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC))

please cast a glance

Sir! I would be most grateful if you could cast your learn'd eye upon: Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera. It is but a modest start. -- Viajero 09:46, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, you've seen it twice more than I have; I only really know "Una macchia" via the pipes of various divas. Actually, I wasn't actually adding it to the list; the listing was already there, only it pointed to the Shakespeare opera, so I only disambiguated it with a pointer into the great beyond. Just finished this: Francesco Maria Piave. Know any more about this guy? -- Viajero 18:04, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

(I added some details.) Wetman 18:58, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Indoctrination

Hello Wetman, I think it is quite entertaining that you restored the sentence that I removed in red but let's from now on try to make it a serious article following Wikipedia lay out and standards. Thanks. Andries 18:29, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Pelasgians

Well, Wetman, it appears that no one exept you & I care about this article any more: in almost 2 weeks since you asked about removing the NPOV notice from the article, only I have responded. (I gather Levzur has finally left, & Zestauferov appears to be on an extended vacation.) I assume you're at liberty to remove the notice. -- llywrch 16:33, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad to do so, based on the article itself, as it now stands. Wetman 18:25, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Bishops of Sion

Not a problem. RickK 21:32, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

edit on Gospel of Mark, 7Q5 fragment

thanks for the edit in mark. The entry on 7Q5 states the difficulty of the assertion, but that should certainly be made clear in the main Mark entry as well.

-sm

--Michael Lee 02:21, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

(I thought "7Q5" was worthy of expanding slightly for sense in the context. Readers shoul;dn't have to follow a link to make sense of a statement. ;) Wetman 02:24, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC))

Ashley Montagu

Hi, I just replied to your comment on User talk:Infrogmation. I then saw you added "Placed here for those who don't know what an epigraph is: " at the top of the "Quotes" section on the Ashley Montagu article. I removed that, it seemed rather snarky and inappropriate. (If someone who knows what an epigraph is reads the Ashley Montagu article, do you think they should therefore skip reading his quotes?) Other than that, I think you did a good job on the Montagu article, kudos. I much enjoyed hearing Montagu lecture and take part in discussions when he visited Tulane University some years ago. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 15:34, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Patriarchal Scythians and Pre-Olympian Persephone

Wetman: I'm a little confused about the "Scythians didn't like Cybele because they were patriarachal" line in a few articles. It's a bit hard to square with the fact that they had transsexual shamans. Besides, Herodotus and Diogenes Laertius attribute it to disapproval of intoxication, not misogyny. Any objection to going through and modifying?

Also, I wanted to bounce some ideas about the Persephone article off of you. It would seem that the Pre-Olympian Persephone part can only do one of two things:

1. metastasize into a full-fledged Great Goddess discussion, or
2. remain a stub forever.

Perhaps a better distinction would be Persephone in cult at Eleusis, Persephone in cult outside Eleusis, and Persephone in literature. Would that make sense?

Also, the life-death-birth deity model is considered wholly bankrupt in academia even as it's stayed vastly popular outside the ivy gates. I'd like to find a way to be fair to both viewpoints without being annoyingly repetitive in every single article where it comes up. Bacchiad 14:34, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm a lumper not a splitter, so I like your useful subcategories: Minoan-Mycenean Persephone; Persephone at Eleusis; Olympian Persephone; Roman Proserpina; Renaissance Persephone (as in Jean Seznec's book). All separate within one entry. Then a separate entry for Persephone (video game) eh...

Patriarchal Scythians and Herodotus: once I was quoting Herodotus' telling of Anacharsis' legendary sad end: a report on a Hellenic view of Scythian culture. I'll check the wording, that we stay sufficiently in the background. Squaring patriarchy with "two-spirits" shamans: "What? what?" (Murphy Brown), have you never seen a magical Puerto Rican drag queen? or Kiss of the Spider Woman? I wouldn't be dogmatic there. The culturally-freighted term "transsexual" involves surgery. With mythology one can't explain or prove, just explore and elucidate.

The Great Goddess needs to be explored two ways in one long article: She is universal. She is intensely localized. She is always Three but the Three are always One, and it is as One that we approach her at a certain specific moment, with the Three scarcely in mind. Much Christian blood has been shed over this double-vision issue.

The Life-death-rebirth deity is an idea, and ideas have careers where they are transformed in time. You'd do well to trace the career of the concept, with individual mythographers' contributions— besides Frazer— pulling in as much of the current material as you can. The "reality" in the pagan imagination can be assessed by someone less fearful than us angels. Subsection Popular conceptions could also follow: leave that part be, too, if it's tiresome. Wetman 17:17, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have done a revision or l-d-r-d. It's teh sux, but it might be a start. Could particularly use some help in the Jung/Kerenyi/Campbell bits. I'd also like to see some feedback from a "believer" on how fair the naturalist/internalist distinction I've made is, and whether the Criticism section is sufficiently NPOV'ed. Bacchiad 20:18, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Your new schema helps disentangle the picture. I've added some thoughts along your lines, ready to be recast. Let's get some pungent direct quotes, from the Ancients and the Moderns. Wetman 21:21, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requested pictures Art

Hi. You added a couple of items to Wikipedia:Requested pictures/Art with the comment I just can't get this to work. Anyone, just dump em on the sites and I'll do the rest. please. I am not sure what you mean. Do you want to copy photos from the site to Wikipedia? Please let me know, and I'll try to help you. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:16, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes. I tried uploading Jean II of France (Louvre image) and look at the result. I've been working up through Unused images (I'm up to 13 Aug 2002, so I have a way to go) finding homes for suitable good images and working them into the text to explain what's relevant about them. But I can't judge whether the copyright from the Louvre is okay at Wikipedia, and the techniques are a little over my head at present. It sounds lazy, but if you could dump the images onto the pages, I can work like hell and make them make a point! What say?Wetman 07:27, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The picture you uploaded had a size of 0 bytes. I went to the louvre site, found the photo (large format), right clicked on it to save it and then uploaded it at wikipedia. All was no problem. See Image:JeanIIdFrance.jpg and John II of France. Please check if the images you downloaded show correctly on your computer, so we can find out if the problem is the downloading from louvre or the uploading on wikipedia. -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:32, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC) BTW, i can't speak french, so it is difficult for me to find images on the site (all links are only to the top page) -- Chris 73 | Talk 08:35, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, now I've got it, with a little help at this end too. Thank you. I was neglecting to open the files and was shifting empty cartons! See Simon Vouet and Rococo! Thanks again! Wetman 21:42, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A Sphinx zany

Why did you change my changes to the page about the sphinx?

I reccomend that you read about the geological studies about the sphinx prior to calling real science zany vs the preconcieved beliefs of the egyptologists that cannot reineforce their arguments with facts. Like it or not there are facts that support a construction date as far back as 12500 BCE. The mainstream egyptologists will not support that date as it throws "their" calander off so far that they would have to do some real thinking. BTW, Geology is far more factual than opinion - anybody's.

(I posted this at Sphinx: not likely to enlighten you geologists...) Wetman 02:49, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Daemon (mythology)

Thanks. It was in the name of consistency in naming, plus it seems it wasn't exclusively Greek in later use. -- Curps 08:02, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

a nagging problem... now resolved! Wetman 08:06, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Io Sabazie!

My doing, I'm afraid. For the same reason Mitra and Mithras are separate articles. Dionysus and Bacchus aren't, but don't youb agree they should be. The Caravaggio is of Bacchus not Dionysus. So, Roman syncretic Sabazius is a long way from the nomadic horseman god imported into Phrygia from Thrace or wherever. Mary, the mother of Jesus and Blessed Virgin Mary quite rightly have separate entries. ... etc. Don't you agree? Wetman 08:38, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Although I just split Jupiter and Zeus, I'm in favor of keeping Bacchus and Dionysus together, since B. was a Greek borrowing (Bakkhos is a good Greek title of D.) from day one (needs work though). Liber might be a different story. The only big difference is that Bacchus tends to be more cliched as time goes on. I think the same is true of Sabazio/us: he's already plenty syncretized in Aristophanes's day. Diodorus Siculus already associates him with the "Zagreus myth" c. 100 BC. Roman Sabazius would seem to differ in degree, not in kind.

About the Bacchus illustration: yeah, it's not the one I'd choose. If I didn't like Caravaggio so much I'd replace it with a black-figure vase. ;) - Bacchiad 16:50, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Your formulation: "This article focuses on Jupiter in early Rome and in cultic practice. For information on mythological accounts of Jupiter, which are heavily influenced by Greek mythology, see Zeus." Excellent! I hope you'll similarly cut-n-paste Hermes and Mercury, Athena and Minerva.

Caravaggio has been my favorite Italian painter, back when I had favorites and didn't know the best of Guido Reni. But you couldn't set that self-consciously scandalous figure in a maenadic limb-from-limb ritual. Maybe my Kerenyi Dionysus will give hints for disamb the two... Wetman 17:06, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I did a re-work of Minerva and have one of Mercury in slow progress. But: I just took a lot at the Greek mythology page. Merciful Lord in heaven above! About as useful as a Pythagorean at a hecatomb. — Bacchiad 02:10, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Renaissance architecture

Hi, you added the photograph of Hatfield House to Renaissance architecture, which is brilliant, because it explained what I was trying to say about transition of styles, I subsequently expanded a bit on it due to the photo.

Please don't take offence, but I think your caption may be wrong, as according to all the books I have it was built by Robert Cecil, 1st Earl of Salisbury between 1607 and 1611. I would change it myself, but can't see how to do it!Giano 13:24, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Right! Wrong Cecil! In the HTML text, you can identify captions between those vertical slashes. You can edit within the bars without changing anything else. Preview and see! I hope you'll work through the architects. Nothing yet on Francesco di Giorgio; Jacopo Barozzi da Vignola; the Palazzo del Te; Baldassare Peruzzi; Carlo Rainaldi; Domenico Fontana...

Thanks for changing tha caption. That's a long list, but I am going to try when time allows, but it may be some time, it's easier when someone else starts the page, and i just have to add bits - over to you! Giano 08:10, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just re-read your message, from where have you singled out Palazzo del Te, I assumed it was 'on' already with a different name, are you sure it's not. Otherwise I will do it first. Giano 19:39, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As Palazzo Te it's bolded at Mantua. That's all there is. If it's to be a separate article it should be linked to Giulio and Mantua and the Gonzaga duke and Mannerism. Badly needs illustrations, eh... Wetman 19:48, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Palazzo del Te, as it will be called if I write it! I'm too thick to put photos on, even if I had any non copyright, which I don't, one or two with smiling/sullen children but not suitable. Will wite it and see what happens Giano 20:58, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Palazzo del Te needs a photo - any ideas? Giano 16:13, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Google "Palazzo Te on Image mode: masses of excellent details, but none in the public domain. I tightened your sentences for fewer words with the same information... Wetman 18:23, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That is fantastic, isn't it? Couldn't be better! Thanks Giano 06:16, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Would you like to add a a bit to Ca' d'Oro, I've just written it, but not really happy with it, need some connection to renaissance and some life! Giano 13:24, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Villa Giulia

Favour returned, thanks for help. I hate copy editing English, because if a native speaker makes a mistake, it makes me doubt my owm English if you follow. I went to a party/concert there earlier this summer, I'm sure the programm had a history of if it on the back, I'll see if I can find it, there might be a bit more there. Good idea about Sicilian Baroque, but it would probably finalise on VfD as not notable! We do have some wonderful houses and Palaces, but I suspect they would end up in the same place, I might test the water with the Gangi Palace and see what happens. Regards Giano 12:29, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I've been playing around with Villa Giulia expanding and changing a bit. If you don't like it 'revert' it back. I don't want to take over your work, I just found a little more information, but it might be a good idea if you check it out. Regards Giano 09:12, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've just seen your comment on the discussion page of Ca' d'Oro you are quite right, for some reason when I was trying to write it a mental picture of the Alhambra kept popping up - stupid! Giano 10:47, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I didn't want to go interfering with your good text. Good edits at Villa Giulia! So serene working on topics where religionists don't keep furiously popping out of the bushes... Wetman 17:28, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Once a catholic I'm afraid! Would it wreck your life if I said 'Bartolommeo Ammannati'is the correct spelling, can't be bothered to change pages and articles etc. just so long as we know. What shall we do next? Giano 20:26, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

We don't all have hundreds of people leaving messages like you, some of us have very lonely pages indeed! Looks like Villa La Rotonda next then, and No I do not do the leaning Campanile at Pisa Giano 21:17, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Unrecognized Countries

Hi, Wetman. I noticed you had made contributions to Abkhazia. If you're interested in Abkhazia and similar places, why don't you drop by the WikiProject Unrecognized countries and help add some more depth to Wikipedia's coverage of these?

Be sure to visit the Project talk page, and if you are interested, you can become a member. Ambivalenthysteria 12:07, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Controversy controversy

I don't know what you mean by the word structural that you inserted into this article. I'm wildly guessing it may have something to do with structuralism as defined in the article with that title. If so, you ought to link to it in the controversy article, because it's a specialized term not known to most of us. Michael Hardy 23:16, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well taken. I edited the phrase to reflect "the way the word functions" wjhich is all I meant. Odd to have lists of "comtroversial" subjects without being able to discuss what thje word "controversial" does when inserted: List of controversial Popes, etc. Wetman 23:44, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mother Goddess

Good edits, as usual. Heavy on useful links and info :D Possibly a bit POV tho. This article is going to require a difficult balance between traditional sociologists and archaeologists, and neopagan feminist wing-nuts who insist apon a "matriarcical maternal monotheism". I think the best is just to quote the people involved, and cite their credentials. Thanks for being here, Sam [Spade] 05:11, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

(Sam says "I think the best is just to quote the people involved, and cite their credentials." This is one of the best ways to build any Wikipedia article! More quotes! More pictures!) Wetman 06:09, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say! :D Sam [Spade] 06:10, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Talk:Galleria Borghese

Hi. I did'n quite follow your comment Pay no attention. The above user is babbling on Talk:Galleria Borghese. Did this refer to me getting the image? -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:14, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, it was me having trouble disambiguating the various Villas and Galleries and Collections in the Villa Borghese gardens. Better check what I wrote for clarity and accuracy. Nice photos eh. Wetman 19:20, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Villa Capra di Rotunda

Working on the above, which should be on wiki, in the next couple of days. What do you think it should be called, Capra, Rotunda, or both, there will have to be directs from both Capra and Rotunda whatever. What is the most common name in USA for it? Regards Giano 06:45, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Isn't it Villa Capra "La Rotonda" or Villa Capra "La Rotunda"? I see both Wetman 06:54, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Villa Capra "La Rotunda" - so shall it be! Giano 09:50, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It is now on. Can you edit (change as much as you like) before some-one else gets there, I'm not totally happy with it, I felt I was losing my way a bit with my own English, I know what I want to say and yet to my ear it sounds wrong, 'circle in a square etc' 'set in ground' yet 'recessed' would be completely wrong. Dates on the internet are all over the place, the architects bible 'World Archirecture' says it was begun in 1567 so I have gone with that.

When you said the other day 'that five-sided villa dominating a town' did you mean Villa Farnese at Caprola if so I think we could do that next. What is the hope of finding some non copy photos of Capra and Farnese? Regards Giano 21:25, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, that's it: Caprarola. ...and Vignola along with it? The Palazzo del Te images were just luck. We'll see what I can turn up in public domain... Engravings? Wetman 22:03, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments on Capra, I am actually quite pleased with it myself, I found a whole page of pictures on a site where the owner said they could be used for educational reasons if one said thankyou! However I can't find them again now, the intenet does not seem to work as well here as when we are in England, for some reason its always a bit 'hit and miss', something to do with not being broad band I suppose. I've a hold load photos taken in black and white by my grandparents there in the 1930s, but they are full of people and the quality is not great, and a couple from old books that don't mention 'copy right'. How does one know? I don't know how to load them up anyway! I'll do Farnese when time in the next week or so. It would be nice to have a whole series of Italien Villas, perhaps even a category!!! Regards Giano 08:13, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Judas Iscariot

NOTE: I originally replied on my talk page, but I know some people hate that, so I've copied it here. If you reply though, let's just finish the conversation on my talk page.

Hmm, I was patterning it after the theological section. I'm pretty sure that there are other philosophers who have questioned Judas' role in Christianity (such as Bertrand Russell), but I'll have to dig up some more examples before I flesh that section out completely. Until then, I'll rephrase it to be more diplomatic. Thanks for the advice! - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:08, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, after more googling i confirmed that this philosophy was shared by a bunch of people, notably Russell, who had several essays with this idea. I've referenced him in that section and made it more of a summary of broad philosophical questions. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:23, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Opera Image

Yes, it is for aesthetic reasons. The picture's file is 193 pixels wide, so before my revision you could see large pixels. I feel the new size looks better, but it doesn't particularly bother me - Feel free to change it back if you disagree. Dmn 09:37, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've never heard or been told of this 'Avoid unnecessary interference' Wikipedia rule before. Could you point me to where it is discussed? Dmn 09:42, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's axiomatic: Avoid unnecessary interference. Such a good rule. Self-explanatory, really. So sensible in all aspects of life. Who could question it? Wetman 09:53, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Villa Farnese

Villa Farnese now on site, grateful for your edits and opinion Giano 11:36, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Brilliant. I reduced the number of words without changing information. The terraced structure at the entrance isn't clear enough yet. The catena d'aqua might be compared to Vignola's Villa Lante Bagnaia: where did he invent this much-imitated gioco di aqua?. More should be made of the astonishing groundplan. Wasn't the pentagon inspired by the fortified foundations? Mannerism should be linked: it's the controlling forvce of the whole unsettling experience you recreate... Wetman 18:39, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yeh, I see where your comming from. I have just tried to clarify further your clarification on the terraces, perhaps it need a re-write i.e:- there are 3 terraces (1)......... (2)........ etc etc. but that might become repetative....I don't know! I did not know that the old fortress was a pentagon too, one book gave the names of two architects and claimed the fortress was only built circa 1520, others contradicted, no where was 5 sides mentioned. Half of my books though are Italian translated to english and then my view so things do become lost!

I re-read it for the last time and though we needed a mention of mannerism too, try to add tomorrow, unless you want a go, its late at night here, your bright and awake. Have another go if time tomorrow, but have busy day and a funeral so may not be time. I think Vignola and Lante will have to have their wn pages all heavily linked with Farnese. This is going to run and run..... Do you think anybody is reading it besides us? regards Giano 21:47, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Giacomo Barozzi da Vignola

Nice work! Were you up all night/day? This is going to be one of the best categories on Wikipedia. Regatds Giano 08:08, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Have started a Villa Lante page, its just a skeleton at the moment and needs a lot of work, things can be added as they arise Giano 17:59, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Alessandro Peretti di Montalto very helpful! but please add something to Lante, I'm stuck.

Great at Lante. I did not realise the great blancmange was infact an heraldic montain, I won't argue that point! Last time I was there the square was not populated (as you suggest) but full of old people loafing arownd spitting on the terra, but that would hardly be poetic. Finally I changed from one source:- 'Villa Lante was bombed in 1944 by futile American bombing' to 'allied bombing' let no-one say I am not diplomatic.

How does your great nation think the aristocracy of Europe has survived so long without health infusions of Vanderbilt, Kennedy, Whitney Rockerfella 'blood'? They were not just 'obligatory' but imperrative! We had had to start paying taxes by then!!! I know at least three American Contessas today and inumerable other Italians (including me) have transaltlantic blood.

Seriously: brilliant edits at Lante. I think Villa d'Este next, it is already on, but has room for expansion, apparently the same man who did the hydraulics at Lante did D'Este as well. so I could put that in, and some links. Before I do, what's your oppinion of the actual Villa, I think its so severe I would have thought it was just the old original monastery that evolved, with a portico tacked on Regards Giano 09:24, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The heraldry for Mont + alto is such a specifically Italian charge-- you must be half English to think blancmange! I see Villa d'Este has images now. I'm more interested in the hydraulics engineer you mentioned. I've never seen his name before. Wetman 17:54, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Sorry about the Blancmange joke - it is a very old one! Have you never heard what those who bear it are called? As you are suggest a little more about Bagnaia, and a small addition to D'Este - don't want to take over someone elses page - so will leave it there. Am fascinated by the hydraulics man too, but limited information seems to be on internet or in any book of mine, I'm sure I've heard his name concerning the papal gardens behind the Vatican, but not sure, but will phone some-one later today who may know. Sorry no English blood at all, bit of Dutch I am told, but that came heavily diluted via USA. Regards Giano 06:10, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi (yet) Again - can find nothing on Thomaso Chiruchi which is frustrating, I know I've read somewhere about him and the Vatican Gardens, but can find nothing. Somebody must have documented him somewhere - Will keep looking Giano 21:54, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Germain or Germanus of Auxerre?

Hi Wetman - I find it odd that you remained Germanus of Auxerre to Germain, especially as none of the references I have at hand (e.g., F.R. Hoare, The Western Fathers) call him by any other style than Germanus. This is expected, as he was a late Roman bishop, & not a French one. Do you have better information than I do about the proper form of his name? -- llywrch 02:09, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC) Do I don't. Clueless. I just went with the famiar form. Like Saint Denis. Or course Denis was Dionysius... As long as there are plenty of redirects, I'm okay with any ol' form. Wetman 04:22, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ruck & Staples

Hello. At palladium (disambiguation), you wrote about "Ruck and Staples" without citing anything in print or putting in any links to pages that would tell us who they are. Could you put that information there? Also, did they actually spell the goddess's name Athenia? I'd have changed the spelling immediately if not for the quotation marks; if they did spell it that way, I think a "sic" should be added. Michael Hardy 00:41, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh. References at the bottom. I don't normally expect to see that in a disambiguation page. But there's still the spelling issue. Michael Hardy 00:52, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

(My silly typo. Sometimes it's best to stand back and let widely-read authors hit the nail of the head for you. Fewer cries of "NPOV." Wetman 01:20, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC))

King? Committee? I'm so confused!

According to the history page, this line from Innocent IX is yours:

When the news arrived that the king had been assassinated in turn, and the committe disbanded.

Not even a complete sentence -- my bet is that the cursor slipped during the edit. I'd fix it, but don't know what it's supposed to say. Seems to have survived several interim edits, too. Kbh3rd 03:04, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I squashed it. A fragment left over from former remarks on a committee sitting to decide on punishment for the king of France after the assassination of the duc de Guise... Wetman 03:10, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

St. Charles Borromeo

Good catch. I looked at that bio wondering how the heck the Counter-Reformation guy ever got himself killed by the Iroquois. LOL. Apparently that was actually the bio of St. Charles Garnier. Take care! Antandrus 16:15, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Hah! I would have moved the text if I'd known who it referred to. Now I see substantially that same text for Saint Charles Garnier, where it belongs. Wetman 16:22, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Fraud and wishful thinking and the Shroud of Turin

Skeptics and the Unexamined Life: Vis a vis your comment on the shroud talk page I think it's particularly apt to copy here a comment of mine elsewhere on that page: "Agree the disputed notice should be removed. The article is quite balanced when one doesn't start from a knee-jerk skeptic POV. I happen to be atheist, but I don't let that blind me to the remarkable qualities of this image. Those qualities get their due in this article, as they should... Skeptics by nature are supposed to be anti-knee-jerk, they're supposed to apply fresh reasoning to all they encounter. A cursory reading of this Talk page shows how often that is not the case. What you get are people just as reflexive in their anti-religion "thinking" as many proponents of religion are in theirs. On top of that, they seem to have a much greater tendency to cry "POV!" when something that questions their unexamined "skeptical" assumptions appears... Will delete disputed notice in a few days absent any non-knee-jerk response here." JDG

("Knee-jerk skeptic"? Vocabulary is the window to the soul.)

Ahh, a skeptic who censors no less! JDG

Nazarene

You wrote: " 'Several distinct sects (at least one of which existing a century prior to the Christian movement)' If you do mean to make the introduction clearer, perhaps you'd disambiguate this very vague reference". I'd love to - this was a bit that was there before I had my latest go at the intro. I haven't the foggiest what it refers to either, and haven't got time to investigate at the moment, but it seems to matter to someone. I left it in in the hope of stopping the perpetrator putting yet more junk in if I took it out. This particular page could keep a cleanup crew of its own happy for months on end, couldn't it? seglea 23:03, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Someone who can't distinguish Nazirite from Nazarene, I swan. Wetman 23:08, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)