Talk:Fortis Group

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Untitled[edit]

Foris is not just a Belgian company. The name of the lemma is therefor not correct. Fortis is a Belgian/Dutch company, operating all over the world. Perheaps that the new name of the lemma should be Fortis (Benelux)? Or at least shoult it be said that it is as well Dutch.Effeietsanders 13:09, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I quite agree with Effeietsanders. I am an employee of Fortis in China. And Fortis is an Benelux company with its headoffices in Brussels and Utrecht. Please amend! Thank you! pourfemme

Revenue figure clearly wrong[edit]

The revenue figure of €6.047 billion (2007) must be clearly wrong. The article says Fortis is the 20th largest business in the world by revenue so this doesn't seem right. Forbes article (referenced on the bottom in the article) puts the revenues at 121,201.8 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.47.47.43 (talk) 13:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

three new company`s[edit]

on the dutch wiki, we have make three new artikels about fortis.

fortis is broken up into these 3 companies:

nl:Asr_verzekeringen nl:BNP_Paribas-Fortis nl:Fortis-ABN_AMRO

maybe is this also a good idea for the englisch wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by Racingweirdo (talk • contribs) 20:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article quality[edit]

This is an *excellent* article. Toby Douglass (talk) 23:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The point of this remark being? It is rated start as it contains a lot of useful information, but also lack a lot. The article contains many red links, large sections (like acquisitions) are written as list not as prose, and the article is biased towards the ABN-AMRO issue. Also it lack explanation about the complex international (esp Dutch-Belgium) shared ownership, which has major importance in the current crisis, and it does not explain why it used to be a favourite people's stock in Belgium, but not elsewhere. So all in all, it has a lot of promise but needs a lot of development; where more of the most recent news items is not what is lacking. Arnoutf (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I mean by my comment that the article directly addresses the issues and their ethical consequences. No weasel words, no avoiding of the crucial ethical implications of the actions of the various actors. Toby Douglass (talk) 12:08, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

split between ABN AMRO takeover and Collapse[edit]

Recently I entered a split between the ABN AMRO takeover and the subsequent collapse, making the collapse section one at the highest sublevel (level 2); equal to that of ABN-AMRO takeover.

This idea was reverted with the edit summary "Collapse of the holding: minus unsubstantiated opinion. There are several Committees who are looking into what exactly caused the collapse. Fortis maintains that nothing was actually wrong"

I fully agree with that comment, and my reason to add the additional high level section about the collapse of the holding was very similar. By placing the collapse of the holding under ABN AMRO it is strongly implied the sole reason for the collapse was the ABN ARMO takeover. As the summary states there are several committees investigating the issue, so placing collapse with ABN ARMO seems an usubstantiated opinion in itself. I really think these should be seperate sections. Arnoutf (talk) 20:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is a matter of perspective and organisation. There are at least three topics, which in themselves would each justify a page of their own:
  1. Fortis as a company
  2. the take-over of ABN-AMRO
  3. the collapse of Fortis
As it is, the page is a little skewed. There is not all that much on the actual Fortis, it being a complication that it is not particularly clear what Fortis is, at the moment.
There is not that much on the take-over of ABN-AMRO, nor about the parts the other two banks played. Recently a book appeared, so there is more than enough material for a separate page.
As it is, the part of the collapse of Fortis makes up the bulk of the page, and the take-over of ABN-AMRO is merely the event that triggered it. So I am happy with the basic structure; the part on the collapse (here) is a clear unit, which could be moved out at some point to become a new page. So I am not happy with a split. Another matter is what the section should be called. Initially "ABN AMRO and its aftermath" was a good title, but it is becoming less and less accurate as time goes by. Renaming might be a good idea. - 94.210.187.109 (talk) 08:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let's wait until it settles down a bit; that makes it easier to get the splits and sections right. Arnoutf (talk) 18:10, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Stand-alone[edit]

The article handles its topic in an isolated vacuum. The Belgian Leterme government's sudden decision to quickly dismantle and sell Fortis, might not have been influenced by what turned up, just upon the time of the government's "resque" of Fortis? Political parties did not have a habit of dropping their favourites into nice jobs at Fortis, and Fortis did not spend a lot to loans for local administrative subdivisions of Belgium, which latter did not collect large dividends from Fortis. Might urgent government warranties for resquing a bank that fits the here described shoe somewhat better, have mattered more than Fortis? Does this hindsight article ring a bell? — It mentions some help by certain countries, and news articles like e.g. September 30, 2008 (in English) or September 30, 2008 (in Dutch), October 6, 2008, October 8, 2008... show that at the time, the problems had been realized quite well. The latter article has Leterme saying "...take responsibility, as we did in the case of Fortis". Did Fortis receive state warranty for the external loans it needed so as to contractually pay for ABN-AMRO on time, to prevent any bankrupcy scenario to even arise?
A year later, an interesting October 2009 report appeared. And just two months ago, a few bystanders seemed to remember.
​▲ SomeHuman 2011-08-16 04:12-05:32 (UTC)

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