Talk:3,000-hit club

Change Article Name?

With Ichiro near joining the overall 3000 hit club (but not the MLB one) and Isao Harimoto having had 3000 hits in Japan's major leagues, I think it would be more appropriate to rename this article to "MLB 3000 Hit Club" since this article ONLY includes MLB players. Or, simply include the Ichiro & Isao's hit totals in this article's listing. After all, they are (or very soon will be) in the 3000 Hit Club... just not the MLB one. For now, I've linked both players in the "See Also" links at the bottom of the article, since they are relevant to anyone reading this article in any context. If there's no follow up thoughts within 2 weeks on the idea of changing this articles name, I'll assume it's ok and just go ahead and insert these two players into the listing with a reference note.--Soy Devon (talk) 23:49, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Update through

I recommend changing "The stats are updated through July 28th 2013." with "The stats are updated through July 28, 2013." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.149.55 (talk) 19:26, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

It looks like User:Muboshgu has edited the "th" out. Giants2008 (Talk) 15:12, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Mays

How could Mays have hit his 3000th in 1918 when he wasn't even born until 1931?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.255.205 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 17 March 2005.

Those of us who saw Mays know he could do anything. Abenr (talk) 04:29, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Biggio Hit Total Discrepancy

Does Craig Biggio have 3013 hits as stated in his wiki page or 3014 as stated on this page?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by MBK004 (talk • contribs) 03:13, 22 July 2007.

Just watched him hit #3015 on TV. I guess that answered my question.MBK004 01:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Just saw him hit #3016, a Grand Slam.MBK004 01:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Ichiro's Japanese hits

Ichiro Suzuki of the Seattle Mariners has 1500+ MLB career hits in less than 7 full seasons. He had an additional 1278 hits over 8 seasons in the NPB, Japan's highest professional league. Ichiro led his league in batting average every year from 1994 through 2000, compiling an impressive .353 NBP-career average. Despite this, Ichiro had more than 200 hits in an NBP season only once -- he had 210 hits in 1994, his first full season, when he hit .385. (By comparison, Ichiro has more than 200 hits in EVERY one of his MLB seasons, because of the longer MLB season (162 games, vs. 130-135 in the NPB during the years in question).

So the question is: Is Ichiro, with 2800+ career professional hits already, well on his way to 3000, and within plausible striking distance of Cobb and Rose? Or is he, at age 33 with just 1500+ MLB hits, just another hard-luck also-ran, who will probably never get 3000 MLB hits? The answer to both questions, of course, is "Yes". That makes this a battle of perception, between the glass-half-full people and the glass-half-empty group.

I am inclined to think that while Japanese League home run totals are clearly inflated (due to the smaller dimensions of NBP ballfields), Japanese league hit totals actually tend to be a bit *lower*, again due to the shorter Japanese season. For my money, Ichiro is fast approaching his 3000th hit, probably in 2008.Patzer42

I think Ichiro is in a rather unique category. When listing his numbers (for purposes of lists such as this), I think you go with his MLB numbers only. His NPB numbers cannot really just be added for all of the reasons listed by Patzer42. I think when the time comes for his Hall of Fame eelction (which he should be a first ballot player, IMO), the stats from NPB will be considered, because some of his career MLB stats are likely to be just under what would normally qualify a player for the Hall.

Tha being said ... on Ichiro's wikipage, I sure hope that his NPB numbers are listed so that fans from both sides of the Pacific can get a more complete picture of how truly amazing he is. As far as I'm concerned, he is a 3,000++ hit caliber player, but I think adding non MLB numbers or extrapolating like that is a bad trend.TeganX7 19:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Closing tags

Just make sure to close your tags when you finish editing. If it starts with a {, you need to make sure that it finishes with at } before you go to the next set.

Benkenobi18 01:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Cap Anson

Since his hit totals have been revised to 3,012. Should we move him down on the list? HouAstros1989 21:50, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

sub 300

I edited the article once so that it was clear that lots of players in this club have sub 300 averages which I think is imortant to know about the club. I f you simply heard 3000 hits you'd think Ripken Jr. was on of the most consistant hitters of all time when his 276 mark can't be far from average. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.63 (talk) 23:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm probably the person who removed that bit of information from the article. It strikes me as trivia: this article isn't about baseball's greatest hitters (however one chooses to define that), but the ones with a specific number of hits. However, consensus is what's important, so if you feel it's a vital piece of information, add it back. :) Esrever ^(klaT) 01:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I understand this point about trivia. How about this? I HOW ABOUT PEOPLE ADD SOME IDEAS FOR A TRIVIA SECTION SO I CAN INCLUDE THIS OR OTHER FACTS.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.63 (talk) 01:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's a sort of general bias against trivia on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia, after all, and not just a collection of random factoids. See the guideline page on trivia here. In short, trivial information (that is, miscellaneous and isolated facts) isn't appropriate for articles. Cheers! Esrever ^(klaT) 02:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Alright here's my idea, (see article) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.63 (talk) 02:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not fond of that edit - or the content around it for that matter. A lot of it sounds like original research which is not appropriate. Can you find a write-up from a reliable source which mentions the range of batting averages in the club? I've read quite a few so I know they exist - I just can't recall where at this moment. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Since there are no sources for anything in the article except the list itself, I've removed most of the prose, almost entirely original research and peacock terms. This topic really deserves better treatment. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/pp/hits_3000.php is this a reliable source for the range of avg.'s. I don't really think this should count as original research considering it is listed on wikipedia. It is also significant that baseball fans realize the difference between Ty Cobb and Cal Ripken Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.63 (talk) 00:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Jesus Sommers

The mexican Jesus Sommers Lopez is another player that reached the 3000 hits outside MLB. He played 27 seasons in the Mexican League and has the all-time record of the league with 3004 hits being the only player over 3000 hits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.223.8.163 (talk) 21:36, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Why were Japanese mentions removed?

I think it's important as a comparative feature. There is only one player in the Japanese major leagues who has made it to 3,000 hits. Plus Ichiro, who has over 3,000 hits between Japan and MLB. (And might make it to 3,000 here anyway.) --Kitch ^{(Talk : Contrib)} 12:12, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

• Because 3,000 hit club is a term that virtually universally is used to refer to MLB players with 3,000 hits. Without that colloquial (spelling?) title this list would be at List of Major League Baseball players with 3,000 career hits like List of Major League Baseball players with a career .400 on-base percentage. This also doesn't include Negro League or pre-MLB players who hit 3,000. 500 HR club (admittedly not featured, but) also doesn't have Sadaharu Oh. Staxringold _talk^contribs 18:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Rafael Palmeiro- Eligable but not Elected

We need to change the section where it says that every eligable player of the 3000 Hit Club has been elected to the "Hall of Fame" because Rafael Palmeiro was eligable this year but was not elected- thus is now an eligable but not elected player. I am not sure how we should re-word it though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.40.217 (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done I updated that section. --Muboshgu (talk) 23:38, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Type?

What does "type" of hit (single, double) refer to? The player's favorite hit? His most frequent? The first hit he got, or the last? This needs some clarification. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It refers to what the 3000th hit was. I'll make an edit that hopefully makes it more clear. --Muboshgu (talk) 01:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Cap Anson

First, the article was better when it included 3,418 hits and an explanation for this number. Now it has a broken [a] note next to it and is completely out of order in the list. If you're going to edit the number of hits cap anson has, then fine, but PUT IT IN THE RIGHT PLACE. It looks stupid now, you have him at 3,012 but at his previous position. Also, you have no explanation talking about debate about NA, walks and sums for particular seasons. You made this article worse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.201.111.155 (talk) 21:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Actually noticed yesterday that the footnotes were missing because the removal caused citation errors. I fixed that, but didn't notice Anson's hit figure had been changed. It now reflects the MLB.com total again. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Not sure why the MLB.com total is used for Cap. MLB.com is not the official stats of Major League Baseball. The hall of fame number 3081 should be used. WiseOwlSam (talk) 11:56, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Who the heck is Joey Stafford?

    I've been following baseball for 45 years, and I've NEVER

heard of Joey Stafford. Someone needs to eliminate this clown from the list. Thanks

99.102.249.112 (talk) 06:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

That was some vandalism. It was fixed in this edit. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Jeter Boggs picture

I saw a good picture of Boggs and Jeter here: http://www.wireimage.com/itemlistings.aspx?igi=324872&cl=1

I think it would be a good picture to use for the article. I just know that it needs to be justified and all, but I am not sure how that process works. If someone can work on that it would be great. Arnabdas (talk) 16:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't know how much that picture adds, when we could just take a picture of Boggs or a picture of Jeter separately and add those. I'd think that a more iconic image, like for instance Boggs kissing home plate or Jeter's celebration at home plate, would merit consideration for fair use. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I only suggested it because it is the two of them together and thus we address the HR thing with one picture. It was the first one I found with the two of them together. I was thinking of looking for a picture for the two of them while on the Yankees together, but neither had reached the milestone at that point yet so I opted to suggest that one. Arnabdas (talk) 15:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Pete Rose

The article states that "Rose was declared permanently ineligible for the Hall of Fame due to his role in gambling on baseball games". This is not factual. Rose is ineligible for the hall of fame because he is banned from Baseball. He is banned from baseball because he gambled on the games, tried to covered it up, lied about it, bet on his own games, and the commissioner office does not like him etc. He was not declared "permanently" ineligible. The sentence should read like "Rose was declared ineligible for the Hall of Fame because he is banned from baseball" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.149.51 (talk) 17:23, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I changed it to "Rose was declared permanently ineligible for the Hall of Fame when he was banned from baseball", which is similar to your suggestion. I left "permanently" in there because the list Rose is on is called the "permanently ineligible" list, per one of the sources. It's a weird title since a "permanent" ban can be removed by the commissioner, but if that's what baseball calls it there's a good case for leaving the term in the article. Giants2008 (Talk) 15:12, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Rose was banned from baseball in 1989 and in 1991 they changed the rules that said banned players are ineligible for the HOF. So Rose is ineligible for the HOF because he is banned but he was not ineligible when he got banned. Was not fair to him but he was betting on baseball. Palmeiro did not get 5% of the ballots and his name is off the future ballots for HOF, however writers have the option of writing his name in. WiseOwlSam (talk) 12:21, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

New column

Table with the new column

Player Hits Average Date Team Seasons Games played 3,000th hit Ref Pete Rose 4,256 .303 May 5, 1978 Cincinnati Reds 1963–1986 3,562 Single Ty Cobb† 4,191 .366 August 19, 1921 Detroit Tigers 1905–1928 3,035 Single Hank Aaron† 3,771 .305 May 17, 1970 Atlanta Braves 1954–1976 3,298 Single Stan Musial† 3,630 .331 May 13, 1958 St. Louis Cardinals 1941–1944, 1946–1963 3,026 Double Tris Speaker† 3,514 .345 May 17, 1925 Cleveland Indians 1907–1928 2,717 Single Carl Yastrzemski† 3,419 .285 September 12, 1979 Boston Red Sox 1961–1983 3,308 Single Cap Anson† 3,012 .334 July 18, 1897 Chicago Colts 1871–1897 2,524 Unclear Honus Wagner† 3,415 .328 June 9, 1914 Pittsburgh Pirates 1897–1917 2,794 Double Paul Molitor† 3,319 .306 September 16, 1996 Minnesota Twins 1978–1998 2,683 Triple Eddie Collins† 3,315 .333 June 6, 1925 Chicago White Sox 1906–1930 2,826 Single Willie Mays† 3,283 .302 July 18, 1970 San Francisco Giants 1951–1952 1954–1973 2,992 Single Eddie Murray† 3,255 .287 June 30, 1995 Cleveland Indians 1977–1997 3,026 Single Nap Lajoie† 3,242 .338 September 27, 1914 Cleveland Naps 1896–1916 2,480 Double Cal Ripken Jr.† 3,184 .276 April 15, 2000 Baltimore Orioles 1981–2001 3,001 Single George Brett† 3,154 .305 September 30, 1992 Kansas City Royals 1973–1993 2,707 Single Paul Waner† 3,152 .333 June 19, 1942 Boston Braves 1926–1945 2,549 Single Robin Yount† 3,142 .285 September 9, 1992 Milwaukee Brewers 1974–1993 2,856 Single Tony Gwynn† 3,141 .338 August 6, 1999 San Diego Padres 1982–2001 2,440 Single Dave Winfield† 3,110 .283 September 16, 1993 Minnesota Twins 1973–1995 2,973 Single Craig Biggio 3,060 .281 June 28, 2007 Houston Astros 1988–2007 2,850 Single Rickey Henderson† 3,055 .279 October 7, 2001 San Diego Padres 1979–2003 3,081 Double Rod Carew† 3,053 .328 August 4, 1985 California Angels 1967–1985 2,469 Single Lou Brock† 3,023 .293 August 13, 1979 St. Louis Cardinals 1961–1979 2,616 Single Rafael Palmeiro 3,020 .288 July 15, 2005 Baltimore Orioles 1986–2005 2,831 Double Wade Boggs† 3,010 .328 August 7, 1999 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 1982–1999 2,440 Home run Al Kaline† 3,007 .297 September 24, 1974 Detroit Tigers 1953–1974 2,834 Double Derek Jeter* 3,004 .313 July 9, 2011 New York Yankees 1995—present Home run Roberto Clemente† 3,000 .317 September 30, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates 1955–1972 2,433 Double

I reverted the recent reversion, and am awaiting a rationale. 68.165.77.91 (talk) 02:29, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• You are the one adding a huge amount of content that is entirely unrelated to the article. You are the one who owes a rationale. It was reverted because, as I just said, the number of games played is unrelated to the topic of the 3,000 hit club or the members thereof. The one limited value (separating the hangers-on from the high average hitters) is already satisfied by... listing batting average (a much more commonly used and directly related statistic). You are adding worthless data that clog up the table (cutting out space that could be used for another USEFUL column of data if we think of one) and, as an aside, is extra confusing because the scale for games played happens to make it look a lot like the career hits column. Staxringold _talk^contribs 02:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It is relevant to achieving the milestone during various eras, and it is readily available in the existing reference. 68.165.77.91 (talk) 02:36, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Why is it relevant. Just saying they are relevant doesn't make it so. The eras are established by saying the year, aka the era. And the rate of achieving the hits is established by saying the average, aka the rate of achieving the hits. Games played are a pointless addendum. Staxringold _talk^contribs 02:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

A search for '3000 hits "games played"' generates "about 1,930,000 results" on google. Here are a few: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/jeter_closing_in_on_hits_with_yankees_kia4tLK0z6DvJmiZeupLzJ, http://mlb.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20110710&content_id=21684680&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/07/08/hartnett-3000-will-be-remembered-as-a-footnote-in-derek-jeter%E2%80%99s-glorious-yankees-career/ http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2010/11/can-omar-vizquel-reach-3000-hits-with-white-sox/ 68.165.77.91 (talk) 02:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• And "3000 hit club" "sex" returns 194,000 results but we don't include a list of who the members of the 3,000 hit club were having sex with at the time. Still haven't answered my simple question of why. The clear answer, that it separates players by the rates they achieved those hits is belied by that rate (AVG) already being included. And your claimed reason (something unexplained about the "era") is belied by already stating the era precisely and absolutely. So again, why. Staxringold _talk^contribs 03:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with Staxringold. I understand the rationale to show how fast someone got to the milestone, but then a better argument could be made with ABs instead of just games. Arnabdas (talk) 15:50, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Again true. And really, ABs are already folded in with AVG. Staxringold _talk^contribs 19:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Is that "how fast" the player got to the milestone? I had interpreted that column as career games played, including those from after reaching the milestone. Needless to say, I'm against the inclusion of a games column and perfectly happy with AVG (Moneyball biases notwithstanding). – Muboshgu (talk) 20:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

References

Several hit discrepancies

The number of hits is wrong for Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker, Honus Wagner, and Eddie Collins fide mlb.com. If Lajoie had his mlb.com credited 3252 hits, he would be ahead of Derek Jeter (at least till tomorrow, when Jeter bats again!). Also, mlb.com credits Anson with 3011; there's already a footnote on Anson, but what's in the footnote does not agree with what's on mlb.com now. I've not made the changes, since I'm not sure what authority is being used for number of hits, which can vary, especially for early era players.MayerG (talk) 04:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

The hit numbers for all of the players mentioned above now reflect the MLB.com numbers, and as far as I can tell all of the hit totals here match what the site has. The Anson footnote was updated by another editor, and a footnote was added to indicate the discrepency in Lajoie's total. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:44, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Key too complicated

There's seems to be unnecessary complication in the key - active players are in a green box with a cross, and HOF-elected players are in a yellow box with a double-barred cross. Shouldn't either the color or the cross alone be sufficient because the categories are mutually exclusive? MSJapan (talk) 05:55, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Colored rows are supposed to have matching symbols per WP:ACCESS guidelines, so color alone is not sufficient. I believe it is permitted to have a symbol by itself, but I personally don't have an issue with the current formatting. Giants2008 (Talk) 19:35, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

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Why isn't there a rank column of hits in the table?

I think it is useful after reading this article. Is there any reason for that?

Added.[1]―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 03:33, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

3,000(+) hits vs. 3,000th hit

Hits, Average and Seasons are properties of a player's entire career, whereas Date, Team and 3,000th hit (type) are properties of the 3,000th hit only. If the focus is a player's whole career (recording 3,000+ hits), then it would be good to know all of the teams they played for, not just the one where they recorded the 3,000th hit. If the focus is on the 3,000th hit, then the opponent, pitcher, ballpark, inning and score might also be of interest. The existing table seems to be a compromise between the two. The list is very good, especially having reached Featured List status, so I guess I'm just wondering if it could be made even better. One to ponder, perhaps. --Jameboy (talk) 16:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

No objections after five years(!), so I will add the teams. I was looking for all members of the 3,000 hit club to have played for Oakland and I think it is perfectly reasonable that this article should answer that question. I'll mark in some way the team with which the player collected their 3,000th hit. To re-iterate, it is the 3,000-hit club, not the 3,000th hit club. --Jameboy (talk) 18:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Jameboy, why this wasn't responded to for five years, I do not know, but I saw this comment on my watchlist. Adding every team a player has played for could well overload the table. It wouldn't be an issue for some (Jeter, Brett), but would be for others (Rickey Henderson). Also, why were you looking for 3,000 hit club members who played for Oakland? Immaculate Grid? If so that's not really our purpose here. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I take your point about Henderson, he had many clubs. To say that we probably should have this information but can't due to the practicalities of the table is completely fair comment. But I've never heard of Wikipedia asking why someone wants to know something. It is the business of the reader how they use the information, Wikipedia either provides it or doesn't. In any case the Immaculate Grid did not exist in 2018 when I made that original comment. --Jameboy (talk) 00:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

3000th hit

The article says "all others" hit a single or a double for a 3000th hit. but in the list below, it says Jeter hit a home run. So either the list needs to be edited, or the text in the article needs to be changed

Active player color

It maybe smart to change the color that designate an active player to one a little more dissimilar to the color that designates a living person. It looks like a lot of the living players are active in MLB. There should also bee a color code that states "living person". Jeter, Rodriguez, and Beltre are retired, no? Liberty5651 (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Liberty5651, I don't understand your comment. The table uses two colors, #ffffbb for Hall of Famers and #cfecec for active players. They are dissimilar colors. We don't have a color for this table to denote a living person, and I don't think we should have one. Jeter, Rodriguez, and Beltre (and Rose, Ichiro, and Palmeiro) are retired and not Hall of Famers, so they have the default color. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:05, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I'll believe it, Muboshgu. I'm a bit confused, too. It probably came through in my comment. I see three colors on the table: A muted yellow for most players (like Ty Cob, Willie Mays, and Cap Anson), a grey like color for Pete Rose, Derek Jeter, Adrián Beltré, then Albert Pujols is the only player with the muted blue that's described in the key corresponding to "Player is active". Liberty5651 (talk) 20:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Liberty5651, yes, that's correct. Those players in the muted yellow are Hall of Famers. The grey color represents players who are retired but not Hall of Famers. The one in muted blue is the only player on the list who is still active. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I get it: I didn't recognize the grey as the default color because so many players have been elected to the Hall of Fame making the yellow is more common then the grey. Liberty5651 (talk) 23:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Liberty5651, understood. Yeah, most of these players are Hall of Famers because you have to be that good to reach the milestone. The only ones who aren't in the Hall are those who aren't retired long enough to be eligible (Jeter, Ichiro, Beltre. Rodriguez), or aren't in because of scandals (Rose, Palmeiro, probably Rodriguez). – Muboshgu (talk) 00:35, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Add pitchers names

I think the names of each pitcher who allowed the 3,000th hit should also be mentioned. 88T3 (talk) 22:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC)