Talk:Revenge

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Caitlynwhite123, Afavata, Maddmaddz. Peer reviewers: A Wiegers, Jdry20, Sarahmichelle1895.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Michelle.m.wilson. Peer reviewers: Aeteate.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:06, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2019 and 3 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bcmac550. Peer reviewers: Dneverson.

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Untitled

This article is linked to the Golda Meir article from the link Vengeance, which is about the Israeli response to the 1972 Munich Olympic attacks. I think we may need a disambiguation page going to Vengeance. Flyerhell 09:07, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Silly examples

Given that revenge has been a consistent theme in great literature for hundreds of years, it seems to me a little silly to select examples like Batman, and Star Wars II. Jive Dadson 20:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC) Jive Dadson

I agree completely, can someone remove that fancruft crap?200.67.109.217 16:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC

I think the whole section needs to be rewritten. Right now it takes the form of one long sentence. LK 15:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that maybe it should contain both modern references and classic references as regardless of how great a piece of literature work is (which would fall down to opinion) or how it's viewed in culture, they all still deal with the concept of revenge. Batman can have just as much to do with revenge as a theme as the Julius Caesar play. As this article isn't rating historical greatness I think that low and high culture references are valid (just please don't mention Jaws: The Revenge ;) ). Danno81 14:15, 12 October 2007

Revenge has been noted in several different animal species, particularly those of primate origins and elephants. Perhaps this could be noted somewhere.

To the writer who asked the source of "Living well is the best revenge." It is used as the title and quoted in the body of a biography about friends of the Fitzgeralds, the Murphys, which I enjoyed a great deal, particularly the quotation of Sara Murphy who tells Fitzgerald that he really does not understand people at all. Her insight revealed, to me at least, why I'd felt something missing from his gorgeous prose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.116.30 (talk) 05:30, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Quotes

Francis Bacon has some nice quote material about revenge.

any examples?

I'd enjoy seeing quotes from a few other books that deal with revenge. Hamlet, Titus Andronicus, anything like that. It would enhance the readers understanding on the subject by including such quotes. --Caitlynwhite123 (talk) 00:20, 18 October 2015 (UTC)caitlynwhite123

Revenge is a dish best served cold

Revenge is a dish best served cold redirects here but there's little reason for it to do so. Anybody care to explain why it should? --Energman 20:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Revenge is a dish best served cold because the person who said it couldn't get back at their "enemy" at that time

I'm pretty sure that's not what it means. I think it means that revenge should not be colored by the passions, but rather should be cold and calculating to have maximum efficiency.

I've always interpreted it a similar way: waiting and ruminating prior to take vengeance filters unnecessary conflict and strife.Siludin (talk) 22:39, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

As to the purpose of the redirect, I think a lot of people would be looking up the Star Trek phrase. Whether a redirect is merited, I'll leave to others to decide.--Superluser 04:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I tried my best to fix the origin and current use of this phrase, but most of the sources point back to Wikipedia itself (and often information that is no longer on the page).

The page on Pashtun People attributes the origins of the phrase to Pashtunwali, providing a book reference.

I think "Revenge is a dish best served cold" used to be an article in its own right, but has been merged. I think if you are going to mention this phrase it would be best to mention its use in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan as it is the first attributed use of that phrase in its English form. Danno81 13:54, 12 October 2007

No, this is incorrect. Actually the phrase was used earlier than in Star Trek II, namely by Mario Puzo in The Godfather novel, which came out in 1969. So I changed that in the article. resonator79 00:56, 25 June 2008

Does anyone think it is noteworthy to note the misattribution in page 188 of the Bourne Deception by Eric van Lustbader. It reads, "She (Moira) recalled a line from Les Liaisons Dangereuses, her favorite novel because it involved drawing room spies: Revenge is a dish best served cold." ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 11:44, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

That misattribution is now the first sentence of the section Proverbially.

More to the point: Should/could the redirect point to the section, not the whole article? I would change if I could. I have manually fixed the link in the lead of Les Liaisons dangereuses. -- 99.120.130.167 (talk) 13:41, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I hyperlinked a few things that I was not familiar with in this section. At first I did not like how the Chinese Symbols were included, but now I see that they do have value and it makes the subtopic a little more interesting.--Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:47, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Evolutionary perspective

What is perhaps missing from the article is an explanation of revenge in terms of evolutionary psychology. GregorB (talk) 19:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

There should be a pyschological review of revenge. Liquidblue8388 (talk) 19:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Emotions template?

Why is this included? Revenge does not appear on the template or the list, and dictionary definitions and my intuition suggest it is not an emotion.--Rogerb67 (talk) 00:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Is retaliation also Revenge or ? The best revenege is to be well remebered(Med)sunsetpmthur06180921stcentdecidedEAJSWORDINHAND (talk) 02:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Naturally because vengeance is sometimes "fuelled" by powerful emotions; anger, grief etc. For example, you can probably imagine the seething (and exponentially vengeful) emotions of a rape victim's husband.

LLLookAtYouHacker (talk) 18:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Negative Contract

A fiend of mine, who happens to be a lawyer, once pointed out in a half-joking manner, that revenge worked like a negative contract. To explain what that means: the idea of a contract is that "if you do something good for me, I'll do something good for you". But the idea of revenge, the negative contract, is that "if you something bad against me, I'll do something bad against you". And all the notions of interest, compound interest and especially continuous compound interest hold in place. He further added that revenge or the threat of revenge may very well be the only true defense against a preemptive strike. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.37.226.242 (talk) 04:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

How does one seperate retribution from Revenge?

Just a question is retirbution just REVENGE for religious or poltical motives?ROMAGRECO (talk) 19:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that retribution is exclusive to religion. Retribution is more os an official type of punishment. Revenge can be retribution and it doesn't have to be directly related to religion at all. Maddmaddz--Maddmaddz (talk) 00:35, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

At the beginning of the article, it states that all retribution is just another name for revenge. This is a statement that I do not agree with, seeing as they are different. Although some people may confuse the words, since they are similar, they have slightly different meanings as previously stated above. I feel like this should be stated within the article so the readers are aware of the differences; as well as the difference in vengeance and the other words that are expressed to be the same.--Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:45, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

death metal and hatnotes

"Retaliate" redirects here. For the album by Misery index, see Retaliate (album).

This hatnote was removed on September 25 by 124.168.58.0 saying, "A death metal album not important enough for a redirect."

Anyone looking for the album will first try Retaliate, and it would be discourteous not to tell them where they ought to look. If the album is not important enough for such a brief note, it's not important enough for an article, and you may urge its deletion.

If consensus prefers not to clutter up this article with such a note, how about this? Change Retaliate to point to the album (I for one would not use a verb to look for an article on a common noun), and give that unimportant article a hatnote suggesting Revenge. —Tamfang (talk) 03:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

"Proverbially"

The last line of the text for this section mentions a "Confucious" quote. I hate to say it, but this article says it's mis-attributed to him. It's apparently some old Japanese proverb, first written mention of it is in the 1920s? I was doing a little research into the quote when stumbled upon the confusion, and thought I might mention it.--Joshua Torelli (talk) 06:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

So, do I need to delete/rephrase it? Or will someone else take care of of it ? --Joshua Torelli (talk) 06:23, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I removed the attribution. —Tamfang (talk) 06:35, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Picture

the first picture at the top of the page with hamlet, etc is jarring because the sides of the picture don't line up. Makes the whole article look amateurish. Could someone with better picture editing skills than me fix that? I tried but made it worse so I cancelled my changes. Parsh (talk) 03:28, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Perceived bias regarding Wikipedia's desired neutrality

I understand this page is in development, but either by mere circumstance of deliberate intention, most information is (at least from my perspective) considerably biased against revenge. During development, I recommend citing from sources that display advocation in order to attain more "balance".

LLLookAtYouHacker (talk) 19:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I feel like this article is definitely biased against revenge. Even though revenge is a topic that can be hard to argue for, I feel like it lacks views from the opposing side. This would be easy to support by providing a few cites from books or other articles that address relatively the same thing in a positive manner. Caitlynwhite123 (talk) 00:16, 18 October 2015 (UTC)caitlynwhite123

I think the real issue is first distinguishing punishment from revenge. Once that distinction is made, it becomes very hard to argue for revenge, when punishment is usually enough. Again, I think there should be a section, on a distinction between punishment and revenge/retribution/veagence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Robot 2020 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

revenge editing

Wikipedia’s shame

--Pawyilee (talk) 05:46, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I capitalized the subtopics because it looked improper to have them lower-cased. Some of the sentence structure within this article definitely sounds awkward and needs to be fixed. Although the information is all there, not wording a sentence properly can make the information seem less credible. There were some grammatical errors I edited as well. I also added the hyperlink to words, authors, and phrases I felt as though some readers would not be familiar with. --Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:20, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

"In the Arts"

Revenge is a huge topic in literature and I feel like this section of the article is really lacking important information. It basically just lists the names of books that contain revenge, without giving much more detail. This section of the article can be improved on by adding more specific detail and more relevant information about revenge in literature.

As a side note, I don't believe that humans are the only creatures that execute revenge. Some animals also have the instinct for revenge, so maybe a section could be added on revenge in other species. This is just a thought. --Afavata (talk) 21:14, 14 October 2015 (UTC)Afavata (Abi Favata)

I also think that this section is lacking. I also think that there is a huge amount of revenge present in today's "modern arts" such as film and contemporary literature. This could be further expanded upon to discuss how revenge has been reflected through out history in various works of art. Revenge is a concept that still is employed today, and art, modern or not, will reflect society. --Maddmaddz (talk) 00:40, 17 October 2015 (UTC)Maddmaddz--Maddmaddz (talk) 00:40, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I added two examples of modern literature that are related to revenge. The examples were Carrie and Gone Girl. I hyperlinked the titles and authors so the reader would be able to get more information on those specific texts. Afavata (talk) 17:56, 26 October 2015 (UTC)afavata (Abi Favata)

I felt like this section was not referring to literature, being that there is a subtopic on literature. Rather, that it was making references to pieces of art. Like paintings that have been expressed as revenge, or music dedicated to this idea. Movies regarding revenge could be considered art, but I think they would deserve more of their own category if being discussed explicitly. --Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:42, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Revenge In Animals

I added a section titled "Revenge In Animals" because I felt like this article was very anthropocentric. Many scientific studies have been performed that prove revenge is also a trait in different species other than humans. I felt it was an important detail that this article was missing. It is just another interesting topic for revenge. --Afavata (talk) 01:58, 4 November 2015 (UTC)afavata (Abi Favata)

I added more information under this subtopic to provide more details on the different studies that have been preformed. I found specific studies by two different primatologists that I mentioned in the article. I also added a reliable citation to a book that I found on the topic of revenge in animals. In addition, I revised some minor grammatical or spelling errors throughout the article. --Afavata (talk) 21:12, 11 December 2015 (UTC)afavata

I feel like this section definitely needs to be elaborated more upon because I was unaware that animals could revenge before reading this. I also feel as though more cites should be added to this subtopic. There is only one and it makes a lot of claims that are unsupported. --Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:40, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Themes

Without a doubt, it is seen that there are a variety of themes present within a revenge text that are explicit to this genre. Adding a new section discussing the recurring themes within revenge literature would further enhance the article's relevance. I have added this section because the same themes have been occurring for centuries, dating back to the Victorian Era. I also believe themes are a very important aspect of any literary text on revenge, seeing as in order for a text to be considered a revenge text, it must hold similar components. --Caitlynwhite (talk) 02:27, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Adding the hyperlink to the texts included throughout this subtopic I feel like enhances its value. Actually, adding the hyperlinks to each subtpic enhances its value because it allows the reader to gather more information from the article and become more informed. I have recently proof read this section again to make sure there were not any grammatical errors present, and to my knowledge there are not. --Caitlynwhite (talk) 03:38, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Seriously needs better sourcing

This article is ripe with personal opinions and meaningless statements. Edits like this may look poetic but they are far from encyclopedic. Most of the stuff is unsourced and seemingly arbitrarily added, with many of them not even having to do with revenge. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 18:32, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Planned future contributions to this page.

Article chosen: Revenge What I plan to contribute: I'd really like to include and expand upon a section on revenge and how it relates to individual human relationships. There is much to be shared about this subtopic of revenge. Revenge and how it differs based on an individual's social and cultural background also interests me. I believe this would be a great subtopic to develop with reverences. The History section of this article has been marked for indiscriminate, excessive or irrelevant examples. I would like to improve this article by clarifying and improving the existing information and providing a solid foundation for this topic. References to explore: Yoshimura, S. (2007). Goals and emotional outcomes of revenge activities in interpersonal relationships. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 24(1), 87-98. Li, Z. C., & Stacks, D. (2017). When the relationships fail: A microperspective on consumer responses to service failure. Journal of Public Relations Research, 29(4), 158-175. Aloia, L. S. (2017). Verbal Aggression in Romantic Relationships: The Influence of Family History, Destructive Beliefs About Conflict, and Conflict Goals. Communication Quarterly, 66(3), 308-324. Boon, S. D., Deveau, V. L., & Alibhai, A. M. (2009). Payback: The parameters of revenge in romantic relationships. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 26(6-7), 747-768. Divietro, S., & Kiper, J. (n.d.). Revenge and Forgiveness in Intimate Partner Violence Intervention. Perspectives on Forgiveness, 77-115. McClelland, R. (2010). The Pleasures of Revenge. The Journal of Mind and Behavior, 31(3/4), 195-235. Connolly, W. E. (2007). The Ethos of Revenge. Communication & Critical/Cultural Studies, 4(1), 93-97.Michelle.m.wilson (talk) 19:54, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Peer review

To start off the revenge page is structured nicely and seems to be equally informative under each headline. As I went through each paragraph I found out new information about the history of revenge. All of the sections are strong and have great examples of each citation, but it was missing more explanations within the content. As a reader I had to click a lot of the links to be reminded of what point in history was being referenced.

Overall, my favorite part about the revenge article is the art portion, because although it was brief, the pictures were visually interesting and portrayed the subject perfectly! I would just re-visit the sources because there are a lot and some could be omitted or even condensed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dneverson (talk • contribs) 02:08, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Retaliation

Retaliation redirects here. Are revenge and retaliation the same thing? -ApexUnderground (talk) 08:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)